If the C's are going to be bad this year aren't we better off NOT blowing it up.

[nickagneta]

Think about it for a second. People are up in arms because up to this point in the season the Celtics have not show themselves to be a good team. The appear, at times, to be old and slow and listless.

So what happens? Everyone is so disgusted of watching players that over the last 4 years they have cheered relentlessly not play well that they now want to ship them out of town for young, athletic, though most likely much less naturally talented basketball players. I have even read comments to the fact that even if those players are going to struggle and lose that people would rather watch young athletic players lose than our current players.(And by the way, I am using the word "players". I've seen words like bums, losers, senior citizens and other derogatory monikers that I find distasteful)

But I say, if this team is going to be bad, we are better off NOT blowing it up. As long as we are going to be bad, let them play their way straight into the lottery. Get a nice low pick. That's how you rebuild. By getting a chance to draft high in a deep draft loaded with future All-Star talent.

It also gives the Celtics the chance to look at their kids and see if any are worth anything. It also allows the team the team to have $24-27 million in cap space and the ability to amnesty Pierce for another $16 million if they want.

Also, as much as Ray and KG and Green might not be players you want to be trotting out there as starters next year, they might be nice complimentary bench players that you want to add later, at a much lower salary.

By letting this team play out the year together and remain bad if they are bad and not blowing it up you retain the future cap space and all the trading opportunities and free agent signings that entails as well getting a possible future lottery pick if they are that bad. If you start trading them away, the chances of putting this team squarely in mediocrity-ville for over a decade greatly increases because you are going to take on any or all of the following:

1.) Bad contracts for 2nd and 3rd tier stars that will get you nowhere
2.) Head case youngsters with alright contracts but who could be a huge loss if they flame out because of knuckleheaded-ness
3.) Picks in the low end of the first round that, as we have seen over the last few years guarantees nothing

I say you have to ride it out with these guys. Give them the respect they deserve. If they stink because they don't have it any longer then let them stink, slowly start putting in the youngsters to gauge what you have in them, and at the end of the year get that lottery pick and all that cap space and start anew next year.

Besides, maybe they could surprise some of us, get into the playoffs and pull a 2010 all over again.

[jc3celticsphan]

we could maybe move up in the draft with our pick and the clippers pick. but I dont think danny is that patient if we keep losing he will get offers for everybody on the team and he will pull the trigger at some point.

[OhioGreen]

Think about it for a second. People are up in arms because up to this point in the season the Celtics have not show themselves to be a good team. The appear, at times, to be old and slow and listless.

So what happens? Everyone is so disgusted of watching players that over the last 4 years they have cheered relentlessly not play well that they now want to ship them out of town for young, athletic, though most likely much less naturally talented basketball players. I have even read comments to the fact that even if those players are going to struggle and lose that people would rather watch young athletic players lose than our current players.(And by the way, I am using the word "players". I've seen words like bums, losers, senior citizens and other derogatory monikers that I find distasteful)

But I say, if this team is going to be bad, we are better off NOT blowing it up. As long as we are going to be bad, let them play their way straight into the lottery. Get a nice low pick. That's how you rebuild. By getting a chance to draft high in a deep draft loaded with future All-Star talent.

It also gives the Celtics the chance to look at their kids and see if any are worth anything. It also allows the team the team to have $24-27 million in cap space and the ability to amnesty Pierce for another $16 million if they want.

Also, as much as Ray and KG and Green might not be players you want to be trotting out there as starters next year, they might be nice complimentary bench players that you want to add later, at a much lower salary.

By letting this team play out the year together and remain bad if they are bad and not blowing it up you retain the future cap space and all the trading opportunities and free agent signings that entails as well getting a possible future lottery pick if they are that bad. If you start trading them away, the chances of putting this team squarely in mediocrity-ville for over a decade greatly increases because you are going to take on any or all of the following:

1.) Bad contracts for 2nd and 3rd tier stars that will get you nowhere
2.) Head case youngsters with alright contracts but who could be a huge loss if they flame out because of knuckleheaded-ness
3.) Picks in the low end of the first round that, as we have seen over the last few years guarantees nothing

I say you have to ride it out with these guys. Give them the respect they deserve. If they stink because they don't have it any longer then let them stink, slowly start putting in the youngsters to gauge what you have in them, and at the end of the year get that lottery pick and all that cap space and start anew next year.

Besides, maybe they could surprise some of us, get into the playoffs and pull a 2010 all over again.

As long as Doc is gonna be our coach next year, I don't want anything to do with resigning the Big 3, even an vet minimums, because you know Doc will trot every veteran on the team out there befoore a rookie sets foot on the court.  Only way for young guys to play is to be devoid of veterans.

[slamtheking]

actually Nick that's not a bad plan if they go that route.  I don't think that's what Danny will do though if they continue to stink.

If they continue to play poorly, I would not be surprised to see Danny trade Ray, JO and KG to a contender for a future pick and a less-talented player (or players) that either expire this year or next.  The 2013 FA class is much better than the 2012 FA class.  having a player under contract for another year while picking up another asset such as a future draft pick wouldn't be a huge sacrifice IMO. 
Also, if Danny does pull the trigger on those types of deals, the C's will probably slide further in the standings thus increase their odds of getting a real foundation-type player in this draft.  Although, as of this morning, there's only 5 teams with a worse record than the C's and 2 other teams with the same record. --> at worst they have the 8th pick in this draft at the moment (hoping for no team with a better record getting lucky in the lottery.)  To be fair though, I seriously doubt the C's remain this bad--I'm pretty sure their record will improve enough for them to get the 8th seed in the playoffs if they stand pat with this roster.

[PosImpos]

I think the idea is to trade the Big 3 to get even worse while also maybe getting a few young role players that could essentially spend the rest of the season auditioning for a spot on the team during the rebuilding process.

Not many people, I would think, are proposing that we try to get BETTER by trading the Big 3.

[csfansince60s]

Maybe we can "have our cake and eat it too" by keeping KG and Ray and trading Rondo and Pierce for youngsters and picks and contracts that expire next year.

Then we have 2 years of big $$$ coming off the books consecutively  (both '12 and '13)giving us increased flexibility and some picks/players for the future.

We'll get worse trading Rondo and Pierce which accomplishes most of what the OP wanted (except keeping everyone together sentimentally)and get better quicker with a potential lottery pick for us and maybe an extra pick or 2 this year.

[tyrone biggums]

I think the idea is to trade the Big 3 to get even worse while also maybe getting a few young role players that could essentially spend the rest of the season auditioning for a spot on the team during the rebuilding process.

Not many people, I would think, are proposing that we try to get BETTER by trading the Big 3.

The Celtics are in a very interesting position. They could blow it up but stay competitive at the same time. Utah is a prime team to do this with, if you believe one of their bigs would be a future answer for this team. Another team is Portland where Paul Pierce would be able to give them that veteran presence that they haven't had for years, and someone that knows how to win. KG? A team like New Orleans would probably take him and filler in a package just to get Okafor off of the books. So while these are off the cuff examples there are ways to do this and get young players, or players that can help you next year.

I think the goal here for Danny is to retool, not a full scale rebuild. The Celtics as constructed the last few years fit into the description from the article on RealGM (3 stars in top 30) their players hold more value than the corpses that were in Detroit. This of course is where the logic is flawed with the comparisons between the Celtics and Pistons. Plus not to mention, Ainge hasn't really signed anyone to a p--- poor contract in free agency (except Blount).

The Celtics have two expiring contracts (one of these players, Allen is still very useful) that will give them a lot of cap space in the off season. Pierce, who can be traded for young talent or amnestied in the offseason, and Rondo who is signed to a very team friendly contract. I am certain there are a lot of teams out there that would love to have a player like Rondo too.

However say that the C's keep Rondo and trade the Big 3, piece by piece. Never under estimate how desperate teams can be if they feel that they are one player away from winning it all. There are always 2 or 3 teams that screw themselves by this thinking and that is where Ainge can cash in. Look at New Jersey last year, D-Will was acquired for a huge bounty for 1 1/2 years of service in NJ. Rondo might not fetch as much, but he should still fetch a good amount. Ainge knows all too well what its like to have to trade your youngest asset, because 20+ years ago, Red traded him off. Granted the return was lackluster, but it was still the right move to make. Ainge tried doing this last year for Perkins and ended up getting a pick and Jeff Green for his troubles. Green should be back next year and we will finally get to fully evaluate that trade. As of right now, that deal didn't work out at all.

All and all, if we can trade the expirings off for young players/picks for contracts that expire in 2013, the Celtics will have a good core of talent and still have enough cap space to become a major contender in 2014. But whatever direction they do decide to go in, management has to be 100% committed to it.

[SHAQATTACK]

get those big high dollar do nothing guys off the books soon as it mkaes the most sence to do so , go for a lottery pick.  Save cap room , try and find some decent young talent.

[LarBrd33]

This team will eventually string together some wins and will probably scramble into the playoffs.  Once there, they will not make any significant noise... and the whole thing will have been a waste of time.

To me, "blowing it up", doesn't mean trading our expiring contracts for mediocre stars who can prolong our mediocrity.  To me, "blowing it up" means trading Pierce for an expiring contract + (young prospect or 1st round pick) ... and if at all possible finding a home for Ray without taking back salary (and hopefully getting a draft pick out of it).

Two examples of "blowing it up"

Pierce to Indiana for Paul George (sheds 14 mil off our cap next year and we get a young 21 year old prospect)

Ray to Chicago for Korver, CJ Watson (both would be off our books next year) and a 1st rounder.

That's "blowing it up" and preparing for our future.  That also ensures that we'll continue to suck throughout the rest of the season and get a lotto pick.

Unfortunately, there isn't a single team it makes sense to trade KG to.  So I'd just give him the opportunity to retire early after dumping Pierce and Ray... or just buy him out and let him join the Heat/Lakers for one last title run.

[Celtics18]

I agree with Nick.  The way I see it, we can have our cake and eat it too. 

Personally, I still think this team can pull it together, make the playoffs, and at least, give one of the top seeds a good scare, if not pull an incredible upset. 

And if they can't, well, then we have ourselves a higher pick in next year's draft and we still have the Clippers pick.  If we don't get Howard this summer, then we save our cap space until the following off-season where it makes more sense.  We pick up some good, young prospects through the draft and free agency, go into next year younger and in rebuilding mode. 

To be frank, blowing it up would be shameful and dishonorable as far as I'm concerned.  These guys deserve the chance.  Even if they continue to suck, they still walk off with their heads held higher than if they get tossed aside because Danny and the fan base has given up on them.