Why do elite players NOT want to play for the Celtics?

[Eja117]

The Celts have got to start using Gaston's house on the Vineyard and maybe Belichik's house on Nantucket to attract players. Even in the winter it's a nice place. 

Or even better they could rent the house on the Vineyard that both MLK and Malcolm X stayed in right next to the Ink Well beach. It's right up the street from where Ray Allen had his wedding.  While there Gov Deval Patrick could show up and they could take a tour on the African America History Trail they have on that island. Then at the end take him to shoot hoops with Obama.  Then let him go out for night life. There's not too much trouble to get in on MV or Nantucket.  Then head over to Cape Cod for lunch at the Caped Cod.

I know what you're thinking. Very subtle eja.  Well I don't care. I'm tired of this. I'm tired of players not coming here and the reasons they say. Desperate times call for desperate measures. I don't see why they don't do this.

[dtrader]

am I the only one who thinks the whole deciding where you play because of "weather" is one of the most rediculous things ive ever heard?? if you are a player who wants a championship and wants to win you should play for whoever gives you the best shot to win.

its like this crop of new superstars generally really dont care that much about winning and would rather hang out with their buddies in warm weather and going clubbing than win a championship....theres no other reason to explain why CP3 had golden state as a higher option than Boston

As much as you think the "weather" argument ridiculous, many think the going to the best place to win argument is just as ridiculous.

Want if CP3 wanted to go to the best place to win a title, he would head to South Beach for about $3 million a year next year or LA Lakers for the same money. But a chance to win can happen in a ton of different places. The addition of the NBA superstar to a team while simultaneously getting paid(which wouldn't happen if they signed for less money in the absolute best places to win) and having all the intangibles such as great weather, excellent nightlife, lower taxes, access to gentleman's clubs in the city, access to the A list celebrities in music and film, etc.

Winning is a secondary thing because the NBA superstar KNOWS that by simply by adding them to a team, that team has a chance to win it all. Knowing that, everything else in their life other than what happens on the court for 10 hours a week becomes very important to them.

Complete nonsense.

If the money is equal or very similar, they want to maximize their chances of winning. Why was Garnett reluctant to sign an extension to be traded to Boston till Ainge got Ray Allen? Was it because someone convinced him the weather wasn't that bad? Because someone spoked him highly of the ballet corps? Nope, it was because with Allen's addition, he suddenly saw a team good enough to seriously contend for the title.

Who the heck are those elite players who decide where they go because of the weather, nightlife, racism and stuff like that? Are they real NBA players or just fictional creatures? Why can't they be named?

First...I think it would be a mistake to take KGs (or Ray Allens) actions, and assume that they would represent the norm for current elite NBA players.  Both of those guys came here when they were already on the downsides of their career, when many of the people who they probably had as friends in the league had retired.  Additionally, KG and Ray Allen (as far as I know) were never exactly party animals, who were looking to be in the limelight frequenting famous clubs mingling with celebrities. That isnt like todays elite players.  Third...KG and Ray both came here in their 30s.  Whose to say if they would have made the same choices if they were 5 years younger, at the age of most of the leagues elite players.

And the players who consider weather in their decision seems to be just about everyone.  There isn't an actual list of names published, but when players are free agents (or just discussing cities theyve enjoyed), Boston doesnt seem to be on any of their "short lists".  For the sake of argument though, you could say the players names are CP3, dwight howard, lebron, bosh, and melo. 

[indeedproceed]

Weathr, Boston not bein ny, miami or la in terms of 'coolness' culture or nightlife, the outdated perception of racism, rooting against them as a kid....

Where do you want to start?

[Lord of Mikawa]

1. The bar of excellence, especially for sports teams, is pretty high here. Fans demand a lot and if you don't perform well, you'll hear it. But I do think this city does understand to a certain degree if their favored team isn't doing all that good.

2. The whole perception of racism is something you would think but I don't really think so. I believe it is the overt love of Showtime Lakers and the 90s Bulls that this generation of players grew up watching. The only guy I knew that even mentioned watching Bill Russell on tape is Shaq. I've been to Boston like 3 times and it isn't anymore racist than most places. I grew up in SC and it is a lot more noticeable here.

3. They probably don't want to get stabbed for losing.

4. The bitter cold isn't for everyone. Odd though cause if I could play pro ball that wouldn't bother me. It's not like you actually play outside.

5. This is the generation of players that don't give a Edited.  Profanity and masked profanity are against forum rules and may result in discipline. about past franchises that aren't LA or Chicago. It's like the NBA doesn't exist to them outside Showtime or Jordan's 6 title wins. Freaking 2-peats and 3 peats are baby 8-peats in my book.

[Marcus13]

All the "desirable" cities, at least off the top of my head, seem to offer at least one of the following:

1) Warm weather
2) Media/cultural hub
3) No state income taxes

[celtics2]

Because there is a deep dark abyss ahead when the Big 3 are taken out in wheelchairs. Rondo's no franchise player just a speed demon that can pass. Plus the NBA is now a fixed League with Stern wanting to spread the $$ and players have too much say where they are going. The NBA is now and has been for awhile in 3rd place amoung Sports, and that is a distant 3rd from 2nd place.

[Marcus13]

Because there is a deep dark abyss ahead when the Big 3 are taken out in wheelchairs. Rondo's no franchise player just a speed demon that can pass. Plus the NBA is now a fixed League with Stern wanting to spread the $$ and players have too much say where they are going. The NBA is now and has been for awhile in 3rd place amoung Sports, and that is a distant 3rd from 2nd place.

Only in the five baseball cities throughout America

[Moreover]

am I the only one who thinks the whole deciding where you play because of "weather" is one of the most rediculous things ive ever heard?? if you are a player who wants a championship and wants to win you should play for whoever gives you the best shot to win.

its like this crop of new superstars generally really dont care that much about winning and would rather hang out with their buddies in warm weather and going clubbing than win a championship....theres no other reason to explain why CP3 had golden state as a higher option than Boston

As much as you think the "weather" argument ridiculous, many think the going to the best place to win argument is just as ridiculous.

Want if CP3 wanted to go to the best place to win a title, he would head to South Beach for about $3 million a year next year or LA Lakers for the same money. But a chance to win can happen in a ton of different places. The addition of the NBA superstar to a team while simultaneously getting paid(which wouldn't happen if they signed for less money in the absolute best places to win) and having all the intangibles such as great weather, excellent nightlife, lower taxes, access to gentleman's clubs in the city, access to the A list celebrities in music and film, etc.

Winning is a secondary thing because the NBA superstar KNOWS that by simply by adding them to a team, that team has a chance to win it all. Knowing that, everything else in their life other than what happens on the court for 10 hours a week becomes very important to them.

Complete nonsense.

If the money is equal or very similar, they want to maximize their chances of winning. Why was Garnett reluctant to sign an extension to be traded to Boston till Ainge got Ray Allen? Was it because someone convinced him the weather wasn't that bad? Because someone spoked him highly of the ballet corps? Nope, it was because with Allen's addition, he suddenly saw a team good enough to seriously contend for the title.

Who the heck are those elite players who decide where they go because of the weather, nightlife, racism and stuff like that? Are they real NBA players or just fictional creatures? Why can't they be named?

First...I think it would be a mistake to take KGs (or Ray Allens) actions, and assume that they would represent the norm for current elite NBA players.  Both of those guys came here when they were already on the downsides of their career, when many of the people who they probably had as friends in the league had retired.  Additionally, KG and Ray Allen (as far as I know) were never exactly party animals, who were looking to be in the limelight frequenting famous clubs mingling with celebrities. That isnt like todays elite players.  Third...KG and Ray both came here in their 30s.  Whose to say if they would have made the same choices if they were 5 years younger, at the age of most of the leagues elite players.

And the players who consider weather in their decision seems to be just about everyone.  There isn't an actual list of names published, but when players are free agents (or just discussing cities theyve enjoyed), Boston doesnt seem to be on any of their "short lists".  For the sake of argument though, you could say the players names are CP3, dwight howard, lebron, bosh, and melo. 

Eh, that doesn't make any sense. When exactly have Boston had cap-room to sign a superstar? Do you think those guys should have considered the Celtics for the MLE? Complete nonsense. And now Boston simply isn't a team that offers a good chance of winning for the future. The core of their team is in the mid-30s. That's why you didn't hear about those guys coming to Boston - because there wasn't money to give them and the team's future is bleak. Not because it's cold.

In fact, guys like Sheed and Shaq preferred Boston over other destinations for the same money. Why? Because the team was competing for titles.

Money first, second and third. Winning and correlated aspects - teammates, coach - fourth. The rest doesn't really factor.

Those guys who care about the sushi restaurants, the parties, the racism and whatnot are fictional: who were them? Who are those elite players that, say, the Knicks have attracted due to everybody wanting to play in New York? Amare - but only because they offered him more money that anyone else, especially Phoenix.

The racism stuff is particularly hilarious. As if they know or care. Middle-aged liberal white men projecting their obsessions on young black players.

[dtrader]

am I the only one who thinks the whole deciding where you play because of "weather" is one of the most rediculous things ive ever heard?? if you are a player who wants a championship and wants to win you should play for whoever gives you the best shot to win.

its like this crop of new superstars generally really dont care that much about winning and would rather hang out with their buddies in warm weather and going clubbing than win a championship....theres no other reason to explain why CP3 had golden state as a higher option than Boston

As much as you think the "weather" argument ridiculous, many think the going to the best place to win argument is just as ridiculous.

Want if CP3 wanted to go to the best place to win a title, he would head to South Beach for about $3 million a year next year or LA Lakers for the same money. But a chance to win can happen in a ton of different places. The addition of the NBA superstar to a team while simultaneously getting paid(which wouldn't happen if they signed for less money in the absolute best places to win) and having all the intangibles such as great weather, excellent nightlife, lower taxes, access to gentleman's clubs in the city, access to the A list celebrities in music and film, etc.

Winning is a secondary thing because the NBA superstar KNOWS that by simply by adding them to a team, that team has a chance to win it all. Knowing that, everything else in their life other than what happens on the court for 10 hours a week becomes very important to them.

Complete nonsense.

If the money is equal or very similar, they want to maximize their chances of winning. Why was Garnett reluctant to sign an extension to be traded to Boston till Ainge got Ray Allen? Was it because someone convinced him the weather wasn't that bad? Because someone spoked him highly of the ballet corps? Nope, it was because with Allen's addition, he suddenly saw a team good enough to seriously contend for the title.

Who the heck are those elite players who decide where they go because of the weather, nightlife, racism and stuff like that? Are they real NBA players or just fictional creatures? Why can't they be named?

First...I think it would be a mistake to take KGs (or Ray Allens) actions, and assume that they would represent the norm for current elite NBA players.  Both of those guys came here when they were already on the downsides of their career, when many of the people who they probably had as friends in the league had retired.  Additionally, KG and Ray Allen (as far as I know) were never exactly party animals, who were looking to be in the limelight frequenting famous clubs mingling with celebrities. That isnt like todays elite players.  Third...KG and Ray both came here in their 30s.  Whose to say if they would have made the same choices if they were 5 years younger, at the age of most of the leagues elite players.

And the players who consider weather in their decision seems to be just about everyone.  There isn't an actual list of names published, but when players are free agents (or just discussing cities theyve enjoyed), Boston doesnt seem to be on any of their "short lists".  For the sake of argument though, you could say the players names are CP3, dwight howard, lebron, bosh, and melo. 

Eh, that doesn't make any sense. When exactly have Boston had cap-room to sign a superstar? Do you think those guys should have considered the Celtics for the MLE? Complete nonsense. And now Boston simply isn't a team that offers a good chance of winning for the future. The core of their team is in the mid-30s. That's why you didn't hear about those guys coming to Boston - because there wasn't money to give them and the team's future is bleak. Not because it's cold.

In fact, guys like Sheed and Shaq preferred Boston over other destinations for the same money. Why? Because the team was competing for titles.

Money first, second and third. Winning and correlated aspects - teammates, coach - fourth. The rest doesn't really factor.

Those guys who care about the sushi restaurants, the parties, the racism and whatnot are fictional: who were them? Who are those elite players that, say, the Knicks have attracted due to everybody wanting to play in New York? Amare - but only because they offered him more money that anyone else, especially Phoenix.

The racism stuff is particularly hilarious. As if they know or care. Middle-aged liberal white men projecting their obsessions on young black players.

Carmelo chose to go to NY.  Lebron and Bosh Chose to go to Miami.  CP3 Choose to go to LA.  Artest chose to go to LA.  Dwight is choosing to go to NY or LA.  Those players could have had the same or more money to play elsewhere.

It isnt just about the cap space we have.  Players dont think about what team has cap room, when they say where theyd like to play.  CP was asking to go to NY, when they had no realistic way of bringing him in.  He just knew thats where he wanted to be.  Beyond the headline players, there are always reports whenever a player is about to be a free agent, or in trade discussions about where he would like to play.  Boston is rarely a mention.

Shaq and Sheed are essentially the same as KG or Ray Allen....yes, they might have chosen to come here over other teams with the same or more money, but thats because they are older.  No one here is arguing that NY, Miami, and LA are more desirable spots for players in their mid 30's on the down side of their careers.  We're saying that those are the favored destinations for players in their mid 20s, entering their prime.   

[LB3533]

There's just not a lot of superstars that have the toughness or make up to play in Boston.

It's just that simple.

If you are afraid of the cold weather, you probably should play in a more mellow and calm city/suburb.

If you are afraid of the expectations or the Boston media, you probably shouldn't expect to perform well on the grand stage of the NBA Finals.

I say good riddance.....

[snively]

am I the only one who thinks the whole deciding where you play because of "weather" is one of the most rediculous things ive ever heard?? if you are a player who wants a championship and wants to win you should play for whoever gives you the best shot to win.

its like this crop of new superstars generally really dont care that much about winning and would rather hang out with their buddies in warm weather and going clubbing than win a championship....theres no other reason to explain why CP3 had golden state as a higher option than Boston

As much as you think the "weather" argument ridiculous, many think the going to the best place to win argument is just as ridiculous.

Want if CP3 wanted to go to the best place to win a title, he would head to South Beach for about $3 million a year next year or LA Lakers for the same money. But a chance to win can happen in a ton of different places. The addition of the NBA superstar to a team while simultaneously getting paid(which wouldn't happen if they signed for less money in the absolute best places to win) and having all the intangibles such as great weather, excellent nightlife, lower taxes, access to gentleman's clubs in the city, access to the A list celebrities in music and film, etc.

Winning is a secondary thing because the NBA superstar KNOWS that by simply by adding them to a team, that team has a chance to win it all. Knowing that, everything else in their life other than what happens on the court for 10 hours a week becomes very important to them.

Complete nonsense.

If the money is equal or very similar, they want to maximize their chances of winning. Why was Garnett reluctant to sign an extension to be traded to Boston till Ainge got Ray Allen? Was it because someone convinced him the weather wasn't that bad? Because someone spoked him highly of the ballet corps? Nope, it was because with Allen's addition, he suddenly saw a team good enough to seriously contend for the title.

Who the heck are those elite players who decide where they go because of the weather, nightlife, racism and stuff like that? Are they real NBA players or just fictional creatures? Why can't they be named?

First...I think it would be a mistake to take KGs (or Ray Allens) actions, and assume that they would represent the norm for current elite NBA players.  Both of those guys came here when they were already on the downsides of their career, when many of the people who they probably had as friends in the league had retired.  Additionally, KG and Ray Allen (as far as I know) were never exactly party animals, who were looking to be in the limelight frequenting famous clubs mingling with celebrities. That isnt like todays elite players.  Third...KG and Ray both came here in their 30s.  Whose to say if they would have made the same choices if they were 5 years younger, at the age of most of the leagues elite players.

And the players who consider weather in their decision seems to be just about everyone.  There isn't an actual list of names published, but when players are free agents (or just discussing cities theyve enjoyed), Boston doesnt seem to be on any of their "short lists".  For the sake of argument though, you could say the players names are CP3, dwight howard, lebron, bosh, and melo. 

Eh, that doesn't make any sense. When exactly have Boston had cap-room to sign a superstar? Do you think those guys should have considered the Celtics for the MLE? Complete nonsense. And now Boston simply isn't a team that offers a good chance of winning for the future. The core of their team is in the mid-30s. That's why you didn't hear about those guys coming to Boston - because there wasn't money to give them and the team's future is bleak. Not because it's cold.

In fact, guys like Sheed and Shaq preferred Boston over other destinations for the same money. Why? Because the team was competing for titles.

Money first, second and third. Winning and correlated aspects - teammates, coach - fourth. The rest doesn't really factor.

Those guys who care about the sushi restaurants, the parties, the racism and whatnot are fictional: who were them? Who are those elite players that, say, the Knicks have attracted due to everybody wanting to play in New York? Amare - but only because they offered him more money that anyone else, especially Phoenix.

The racism stuff is particularly hilarious. As if they know or care. Middle-aged liberal white men projecting their obsessions on young black players.

Carmelo chose to go to NY.  Lebron and Bosh Chose to go to Miami.  CP3 Choose to go to LA.  Artest chose to go to LA.  Dwight is choosing to go to NY or LA.  Those players could have had the same or more money to play elsewhere.

It isnt just about the cap space we have.  Players dont think about what team has cap room, when they say where theyd like to play.  CP was asking to go to NY, when they had no realistic way of bringing him in.  He just knew thats where he wanted to be.  Beyond the headline players, there are always reports whenever a player is about to be a free agent, or in trade discussions about where he would like to play.  Boston is rarely a mention.

Shaq and Sheed are essentially the same as KG or Ray Allen....yes, they might have chosen to come here over other teams with the same or more money, but thats because they are older.  No one here is arguing that NY, Miami, and LA are more desirable spots for players in their mid 30's on the down side of their careers.  We're saying that those are the favored destinations for players in their mid 20s, entering their prime.   

Players might enjoy the thought of playing in the so-called glamour locales but they'll only go there if the money's good and they have a decent chance of winning championships there..  If Pat Riley was in Detroit and drafted D-Wade instead of Darko, do you think Bosh and LeBron would have turned down the voltron sales pitch because Detroit is freezing cold in the winter?

The reason Miami won out over Cleveland and Toronto wasn't because it's a nicer place to play, but because Miami offered comparable money and a chance to join forces with stars, while Cleveland/Toronto offered them a little more money and the chance to play out the next few years with Jamison & Mo Williams/Bargnani & Turkoglu. 

[Tgro]

And now Boston simply isn't a team that offers a good chance of winning for the future. The core of their team is in the mid-30s. That's why you didn't hear about those guys coming to Boston - because there wasn't money to give them and the team's future is bleak. Not because it's cold.

In fact, guys like Sheed and Shaq preferred Boston over other destinations for the same money. Why? Because the team was competing for titles.

Money first, second and third. Winning and correlated aspects - teammates, coach - fourth. The rest doesn't really factor.

Those guys who care about the sushi restaurants, the parties, the racism and whatnot are fictional

It seems at the peak of their careers, Money and bright lights (more fame) seem to be the biggest draws. Boston hasn't exactly been throwing the money around in awhile (because mainly they can't). So we don't attract them #1 because of the money factor. We just aren't able to spend big. 

We don't appear to have everyone's favorite buddy to play alongside so strike that too. Our personality with potential teammates has more of an outcast appearance rather than being a team with players other guys are dying to play around. We also don't offer fame by way of nightlife or nearby entertainment possibilities. Even without that, it would be nice if we could add warm, sunny climates and nearby exotic beaches, but we can't. So scratch those attractions too.

The only guys of some claim to fame that do actually want to come to the Celtics are aging starts in the Twilight of their careers willing to play cheap because when it gets down to the end of a career, the possibility of winning a championship one more time (or for the first time) become a bigger draw than money, fame and nightlife because their legacy enters into their thoughts. And at 1st glance, our collective pieces as they are now are not that far off. Perhaps we're just one perennial All-Star away from being on the verge of a championship.  However, it's seems to most that we've become a longshot to compete even with their addition to our team. Almost like a gamble they aren't willing to take. 

Unfortunately, its likely going to take more than past their prime former greats to get the job done these days around here. 

It almost feels like we need to shake things up just to get these guys back on their "reported list" of teams they would like to play for. Because lately its been feeling like we're about as attractive to play for as the Cleveland Cavaliers appear to be now when it comes to elite players wanting to play for us while in the peak prime of their careers.

It doesn't even seem like we are even on their radar these days.   

[Mike-Dub]

Lots of reasons:

1. Age / concern about the future;
2. Weather;
3. Nightlife;
4. Taxes;
5. Boston's perceived history of racism;
6. Dislike of the organization due to the current team's cockiness (this is probably a very small reason)
7. Fear that they'd be playing "fourth wheel" to the big three, and that their voice wouldn't be heard in the locker room.

Reasons players *should* want to come to Boston:

1.  Danny's aggressiveness and creativity in building a winner;
2.  Doc Rivers
3.  Ownership that is willing to spend money;
4.  An amazing fan base;
5.  A chance to be part of a winning tradition;
6.  This individual team's flexibility going forward;
7.  The chance to play with several Hall of Famers

Agree with everything you said Roy, but I think another reason players don't want to come here is that their history of the C's is of the '90s and mid 2000's when we were just about the laughing stock of the league.

[Mike-Dub]

  There are players out there that want to be a Celtic.  They're not the players most fans fantasize about, but good players who play with heart and respect history.  Players that keep their head down, and work hard, and put the team above themselves.  We are lucky to have four all stars like that.  We got a few role players like that this year.  Hopefully we will get another star or two next year.  There won't be Dwight Howard or Chris Paul coming here, and I for one prefer it that way.  

players like that are nice, but unfortunately in order to win championships you really need to get superstars, not just humble hard workers who fit well into a team concept.

Pistons in '04 is one team that comes to mind, but Chauncey was definitely underrated for that team.