Author Topic: Let's Do the Math...  (Read 4211 times)

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Let's Do the Math...
« on: December 11, 2011, 01:34:56 PM »

Offline huzy

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Chris Paul + Dwight Howard + Carmelo Anthony + Deron Williams + Lebron James = 0 titles.

I want to emphasize this point because each of these players have essentially derailed NBA franchises at one point or another over the last two seasons.

The Chris Paul saga is beyond a joke and Dwight Howard handpicking teams to negotiate a trade with is absurd.

Carmelo completely kidnapped the progress of the Nuggets last season, which was clearly deomnstrated by the team's improvement following the trade.

Deron is the least to blame out of this group, however, it's clear that any move the Nets make will be predicated on their hope of resigning him.

"The Decision" set the tone and estbalished the leverage that these players have in dictating thier preferred destination. The only redeaming quality of LBJ is that he was an unrestricted free agent in an open market.

But, it's crazy that literally a hand full of players are perceived as the be all end all for sustainable success amongst NBA franchises. I won't argue that these guys ar in their prime and will absolutely serve as successful centerpieces. But, the extent to which teams are bending over backwards to appease the interests of these stars is maddening.

This is what makes Dallas's title all the more gratifying. They won a title with a group of veterans at the back end of their careers that were pegged as a first round upset material. Aside from Dirk, their core was assembled through creative trades that were faced with early criticism (Kidd, Marion, Chandler) and they won as a cohesive unit.

To see the next generation of franchise players orchestrating these deals with so much entitlement is beyond frustrating. I truly hope that this year's NBA title is awarded to a franchise that is the product of the standard ebb and flow of the NBA transactional roller coaster and not the result of a star sitting out and pouting until he gets traded to his favorite city.

     
"      “I can make a trade every day if I want to, but that's not going to help us. A trade that would get us better rarely comes along. They're very difficult to find. Good trades are very difficult in our league and don't happen very often.”
-Danny Ainge

Re: Let's Do the Math...
« Reply #1 on: December 11, 2011, 01:39:23 PM »

Online Roy H.

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Devil's argument, but didn't Paul Pierce threaten to "pull a Kobe" and demand a trade when he was titleless?  Didn't KG make it very clear that he wasn't re-signing in Minnesota when he was titleless?

I don't like what's happening in the NBA, either, but it's been going on for awhile.


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Re: Let's Do the Math...
« Reply #2 on: December 11, 2011, 01:46:29 PM »

Offline BballTim

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Deron is the least to blame out of this group, however, it's clear that any move the Nets make will be predicated on their hope of resigning him.


  Deron who got his coach booted before he finally got traded?

Re: Let's Do the Math...
« Reply #3 on: December 11, 2011, 01:47:22 PM »

Offline BballTim

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Devil's argument, but didn't Paul Pierce threaten to "pull a Kobe" and demand a trade when he was titleless?  Didn't KG make it very clear that he wasn't re-signing in Minnesota when he was titleless?

I don't like what's happening in the NBA, either, but it's been going on for awhile.

  It's ok, the owners put a stop to this type of thing with the new cba...

Re: Let's Do the Math...
« Reply #4 on: December 11, 2011, 01:47:51 PM »

Offline action781

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As for your "0 titles" argument, you have to realize that these players are all in their mid 20's, so just entering the primes of their careers.  Some other superstars who had zero titles at age 26?  Paul Pierce, Ray Allen, KG, Pau Gasol, Dirk, Jason Kidd.  Yet those players have won every title of the last 4 NBA seasons.  I believe as that group that you mentioned enters their primes, it is very likely (although not guaranteed) they win 5 out of the next 6 NBA championships.
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Re: Let's Do the Math...
« Reply #5 on: December 11, 2011, 01:49:37 PM »

Offline huzy

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Devil's argument, but didn't Paul Pierce threaten to "pull a Kobe" and demand a trade when he was titleless?  Didn't KG make it very clear that he wasn't re-signing in Minnesota when he was titleless?

I don't like what's happening in the NBA, either, but it's been going on for awhile.

  It's ok, the owners put a stop to this type of thing with the new cba...


I think it's fair to say that this is nothing new and to a significant degree the Celtics' success is a product of KG doing something very similar. However, the fact that it seems to be evolving into the standard approach is where I can't accept it.
"      “I can make a trade every day if I want to, but that's not going to help us. A trade that would get us better rarely comes along. They're very difficult to find. Good trades are very difficult in our league and don't happen very often.”
-Danny Ainge

Re: Let's Do the Math...
« Reply #6 on: December 11, 2011, 01:50:36 PM »

Offline huzy

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Deron is the least to blame out of this group, however, it's clear that any move the Nets make will be predicated on their hope of resigning him.


  Deron who got his coach booted before he finally got traded?

Good point...TP

"      “I can make a trade every day if I want to, but that's not going to help us. A trade that would get us better rarely comes along. They're very difficult to find. Good trades are very difficult in our league and don't happen very often.”
-Danny Ainge

Re: Let's Do the Math...
« Reply #7 on: December 11, 2011, 01:53:50 PM »

Offline EmilioBonilla

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This is what makes Dallas's title all the more gratifying. They won a title with a group of veterans at the back end of their careers that were pegged as a first round upset material. Aside from Dirk, their core was assembled through creative trades that were faced with early criticism (Kidd, Marion, Chandler) and they won as a cohesive unit.

To see the next generation of franchise players orchestrating these deals with so much entitlement is beyond frustrating. I truly hope that this year's NBA title is awarded to a franchise that is the product of the standard ebb and flow of the NBA transactional roller coaster and not the result of a star sitting out and pouting until he gets traded to his favorite city.

     

Sounds a lot like our Celts in 2008. The game is a business and I'm sure that there are more players that are doing the same thing behind closed doors. The reason why we know of players dictating where they want to go is because of their star statuses. You won't ever hear players like Scalabrine dictating where they want to go...
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Re: Let's Do the Math...
« Reply #8 on: December 11, 2011, 01:55:32 PM »

Offline Fan from VT

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Not to mention that Wade figured prominently in the decision aftermath with the party and dancing...but he has won a title for Miami.

And Kidd has asked out of multiple cities and submarined NJ most recently after threatening to leave because he didn't like their team...and he's won a title.

Marion pouted and pouted that he was't appreciated on a contender, ended up figuring big on the Dallas title. So that's two of the major contributors to the "gratifying" dallas title that have submarined  various teams in the past.

Re: Let's Do the Math...
« Reply #9 on: December 11, 2011, 02:00:31 PM »

Offline FrDrake

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Chris Paul + Dwight Howard + Carmelo Anthony + Deron Williams + Lebron James = 0 titles.

I want to emphasize this point because each of these players have essentially derailed NBA franchises at one point or another over the last two seasons.

The Chris Paul saga is beyond a joke and Dwight Howard handpicking teams to negotiate a trade with is absurd.

Carmelo completely kidnapped the progress of the Nuggets last season, which was clearly deomnstrated by the team's improvement following the trade.

Deron is the least to blame out of this group, however, it's clear that any move the Nets make will be predicated on their hope of resigning him.

"The Decision" set the tone and estbalished the leverage that these players have in dictating thier preferred destination. The only redeaming quality of LBJ is that he was an unrestricted free agent in an open market.

But, it's crazy that literally a hand full of players are perceived as the be all end all for sustainable success amongst NBA franchises. I won't argue that these guys ar in their prime and will absolutely serve as successful centerpieces. But, the extent to which teams are bending over backwards to appease the interests of these stars is maddening.

This is what makes Dallas's title all the more gratifying. They won a title with a group of veterans at the back end of their careers that were pegged as a first round upset material. Aside from Dirk, their core was assembled through creative trades that were faced with early criticism (Kidd, Marion, Chandler) and they won as a cohesive unit.

To see the next generation of franchise players orchestrating these deals with so much entitlement is beyond frustrating. I truly hope that this year's NBA title is awarded to a franchise that is the product of the standard ebb and flow of the NBA transactional roller coaster and not the result of a star sitting out and pouting until he gets traded to his favorite city.

      

I think this is an excellent point.  This generation of AAU stars have had MANY opportunities to win - LeBron and Melo have been in the league for 8 years and Howard 7 and are in the middle of their primes.

Just to put it in perspective Jordan won a championship in his 7th season.  Now does this mean Lebron, Melo and Howard don't have a chance to win a championship soon?  Of course, they have a chance.  I would also never begrudge a player for exercising their right as a free agent.  But these guys have different goals.

They want to be GLOBAL BRANDS.  They need big markets to do it.  They need to be in NYC, LA, Miami, or Chicago.  They want endorsements, and strategic business arrangements and to go to clubs and parties with stars.  The Heat celebration ceremony after signing Lebron and Bosh is a perfect example of this.  

What they've done that is short-sighted is gone to teams that had to gut their rosters to accommodate their contracts.  The Knicks and Heat had extremely poor supporting casts last year.  Will Battier and Chandler put them over the top?  We'll see.  But in the meanwhile, if they aren't winning rings, they are getting their Nike, Gatorade, Coach, and Timex endorsements...and that's their primary objective. 
« Last Edit: December 11, 2011, 02:05:56 PM by FrDrake »

Re: Let's Do the Math...
« Reply #10 on: December 11, 2011, 02:06:58 PM »

Offline Lord of Mikawa

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Deron is the least to blame out of this group, however, it's clear that any move the Nets make will be predicated on their hope of resigning him.


  Deron who got his coach booted before he finally got traded?

The fact that Sloan was forced to leave makes Deron somebody I don't want in green and white. Ever.
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