Author Topic: Should have Ibaka or Harden over Green  (Read 26169 times)

0 Members and 0 Guests are viewing this topic.

Re: Should have Ibaka or Harden over Green
« Reply #105 on: April 26, 2011, 01:44:28 PM »

Offline jowwwman

  • The Green Kornet
  • Posts: 85
  • Tommy Points: 11
there's a reason that green was available over ibaka and harden.
The other two have more upside, are younger, cheaper, better, and have more definable NBA roles.

100% incorrect. They threw in Jeff Green because we ASKED for him AND because they have Kevin Durant to fill the 3 spot.
It makes me laugh reading a statement like ' Harden has more upside than Jeff Green'. Seriously what a joke.
The way people imagine things to justify their position on the trade on this board sometimes just blows my mind.

Wait, you think they would have given us Ibaka if we asked for him? hahahahhaha
Champber is 100% correct.  Jeff Green, while struggling here, is absolutely a better player than Harden and overall, a better player than Ibaka too.

This thread, and the posters agreeing with it, have no idea what they are talking about.  Besides, we would not have asked for Ibaka anyway because he doesn't fill a need.

This is hysterical. For all the "potential and talent" Green has Ibaka has ten times as much. He's freakishly athletic and is already a better player than Green. He has the edge over Green in defense, rebounding, and shotblocking. Green right now has the edge in scoring although he's not showing it, and even with the advantage in scoring, Ibaka has proven to be more efficient and actually step up and play big in the playoffs. what about jeff green? he was practically invisble with the C's out there playing 4 on 5. yeah yeah 12 minutes a game needs to adjust to the team.. sooner or later green is going to have to take some responsibility stop being timid, then maybe he will get more playing time, right now his play doesn't warrant it.

Re: Should have Ibaka or Harden over Green
« Reply #106 on: April 26, 2011, 01:55:51 PM »

Offline the_Bird

  • Ray Allen
  • ***
  • Posts: 3244
  • Tommy Points: 176
Bonus Question!!!!!!

How many minutes would PP played if Green wasn't there?

My guess is about 39.0. 

You've very succinctly nailed why I still view the trade as a failure, even after the sweep.  Jeff Green was brought in to do one thing - let Pierce get some rest.  The C's starters are playing like warriors, but unless they get some help from the bench, they're going to run out of gas.

Re: Should have Ibaka or Harden over Green
« Reply #107 on: April 26, 2011, 03:13:15 PM »

Offline droopdog7

  • Tiny Archibald
  • *******
  • Posts: 7022
  • Tommy Points: 468
there's a reason that green was available over ibaka and harden.
The other two have more upside, are younger, cheaper, better, and have more definable NBA roles.

100% incorrect. They threw in Jeff Green because we ASKED for him AND because they have Kevin Durant to fill the 3 spot.
It makes me laugh reading a statement like ' Harden has more upside than Jeff Green'. Seriously what a joke.
The way people imagine things to justify their position on the trade on this board sometimes just blows my mind.

Wait, you think they would have given us Ibaka if we asked for him? hahahahhaha
Champber is 100% correct.  Jeff Green, while struggling here, is absolutely a better player than Harden and overall, a better player than Ibaka too.

This thread, and the posters agreeing with it, have no idea what they are talking about.  Besides, we would not have asked for Ibaka anyway because he doesn't fill a need.

Well first of all, every advanced stat and apparently Sam Presti as well disagrees with your position that Jeff Green is better than Harden and Ibaka.

It appears, in fact, that you are the one who doesn't know what he's talking about. Jeff Green isn't struggling here... he's shooting the best fg% of his career and providing nearly the same rebounding, blocks, turnovers, points, etc. per 36 minutes as he has for his entire career. If anything, Jeff Green is playing better than should be expected. And he's still just not that good.

Serge Ibaka is literally 3x as good of a shotblocker and twice as good of a rebounder. He scores nearly an identical number of points per 36 minutes, and he does so more efficiently (EFG%). Ibaka's PER this season is 17.7, which is above average, while Green's is 12.9, which is below average. Ibaka is younger and has far more upside/potential because it's only his second year in the league. There's not a doubt in the world that Serge Ibaka is a better basketball player than Jeff Green.

As for James Harden, he scores more points per 36 minutes than Green, and he does so more efficiently. He averages almost as many rebounds per 36 min. as Green as a SHOOTING GUARD. His PER is 16.4, while again Green's is 12.9. Harden is also younger and has only been in the league for 2 years, and hence has far more upside. Harden is arguably a better player than Green.


Here's my point.  First of all, the fact that Presti didn't trade Ibaka to us doesn't prove in any way shape or form that he thinks that ibaka is better than Green.  I mean, does the fact that Presti didn't trade us Eric Maynor show that he values Maynor more than Green?  Of course not.  

You think just because a guy was traded means that the team had little value for that guy?  That is nothing but fan think.  He sucks, trade him.  Well, in the real world, you generally have to give up value to get value.  As I mentioned before, this trade happened because it was a fit for both teams.  

Now as far as you analysis, there is no question that ibaka is a better defensive player than green.  And that certainly is important.  But if he was that good, why wasn't he starting over Green when PF is his natural position (and it wasn't Green's)?

But more than anything, the potential I see from ibaka is that of a great role player.  That is, I don't see a guy that can generate his own offense.  He needs others to do it for him.  That makes him a complimentary player rather than a feature player.  And while green has definetely been a disappointment so far, he absolutely has more potential on that end.

And forget what you hear, offense is still the most important part of an indivual's game.  Getting your own shot consistently is  a relatively rare trait that has a good deal of value.
« Last Edit: April 26, 2011, 03:22:30 PM by droopdog7 »

Re: Should have Ibaka or Harden over Green
« Reply #108 on: April 26, 2011, 04:16:25 PM »

Offline missyP

  • Kristaps Porzingis
  • Posts: 199
  • Tommy Points: 10
 Oklahoma had an extra small forward and needed to upgrade their center.  This is the only way the trade could've worked and both sides are happy with the results.   /quote]



Is that you Danny Ainge??

Re: Should have Ibaka or Harden over Green
« Reply #109 on: April 27, 2011, 09:10:45 PM »

Offline Celticsfan336

  • Jrue Holiday
  • Posts: 397
  • Tommy Points: 44
Here is my arguement:


Can Harden or Ibaka back up Pierce?

Of course not that is why they weren't traded for. Delonte backs up Ray/ Rondo so Harden is uneeded. Can Baby back up KG/ O'neal? Yeppers...

Bonus Question!!!!!!

How many minutes would PP played if Green wasn't there?

Harden would have been a very good pierce backup.

Id rather have the more versatile, 6'9, athletic swingman who has more basketball talent and can defend the 2 3 4 and Lebron James and Wade. JEff Green brings MUCH MUCH more versatility off the bench and gives us a ton of options, and I think although it gets underlooked, is exactly what our bench needed

Re: Should have Ibaka or Harden over Green
« Reply #110 on: April 27, 2011, 09:17:23 PM »

Online Roy H.

  • Forums Manager
  • James Naismith
  • *********************************
  • Posts: 62863
  • Tommy Points: -25470
  • Bo Knows: Joe Don't Know Diddley

Id rather have the more versatile, 6'9, athletic swingman who has more basketball talent and can defend the 2 3 4 and Lebron James and Wade.

I haven't seen anything from Green that makes me think that he can defend the 2/3/4 well, or that he can cover Lebron or Wade well.

Defense isn't the strong part of Green's game.  He's adequate at SF and has some potential there; he's below average at other positions.


I'M THE SILVERBACK GORILLA IN THIS MOTHER——— AND DON'T NONE OF YA'LL EVER FORGET IT!@ 34 minutes

Re: Should have Ibaka or Harden over Green
« Reply #111 on: April 27, 2011, 09:24:39 PM »

Offline Celticsfan336

  • Jrue Holiday
  • Posts: 397
  • Tommy Points: 44

Id rather have the more versatile, 6'9, athletic swingman who has more basketball talent and can defend the 2 3 4 and Lebron James and Wade.

I haven't seen anything from Green that makes me think that he can defend the 2/3/4 well, or that he can cover Lebron or Wade well.

Defense isn't the strong part of Green's game.  He's adequate at SF and has some potential there; he's below average at other positions.

I think we all agree we know what he can do on the offensive end if he is used correctly, and exploits mitmatches (which he often creates)
 
I agree about defense, BUT
Anyone that athletic and long and strong has defensive POTENTIAL, and when you wear the Celtic green your mindset on defense changes. I agree he hasnt shown us too much on the defesnive end, yet....but he will

Re: Should have Ibaka or Harden over Green
« Reply #112 on: April 27, 2011, 09:35:12 PM »

Offline Who

  • James Naismith
  • *********************************
  • Posts: 52883
  • Tommy Points: 2569

Id rather have the more versatile, 6'9, athletic swingman who has more basketball talent and can defend the 2 3 4 and Lebron James and Wade.

I haven't seen anything from Green that makes me think that he can defend the 2/3/4 well
I'm not sure that Green can defend the two spot at an above average level either.

I haven't seen him there for any extended period since his rookie year but he clearly lacked the quickness to defend quality scorers at that position when used there back then. I doubt that has changed though.

I'd be comfortable enough using him on limited offensive players at the two guard spot + players who lack elite quickness and/or do not use a heavy dose of screens.

Jeff Green has unquestionably struggled defensively at the four spot. He was one of the weakest defenders in the league at that position for the last two and a half years.

I do like Jeff's defense as a SF. He is a solid defender there + he has potential to improve further.

Re: Should have Ibaka or Harden over Green
« Reply #113 on: April 27, 2011, 09:35:27 PM »

Online Roy H.

  • Forums Manager
  • James Naismith
  • *********************************
  • Posts: 62863
  • Tommy Points: -25470
  • Bo Knows: Joe Don't Know Diddley

Id rather have the more versatile, 6'9, athletic swingman who has more basketball talent and can defend the 2 3 4 and Lebron James and Wade.

I haven't seen anything from Green that makes me think that he can defend the 2/3/4 well, or that he can cover Lebron or Wade well.

Defense isn't the strong part of Green's game.  He's adequate at SF and has some potential there; he's below average at other positions.

I think we all agree we know what he can do on the offensive end if he is used correctly, and exploits mitmatches (which he often creates)
 
I agree about defense, BUT
Anyone that athletic and long and strong has defensive POTENTIAL, and when you wear the Celtic green your mindset on defense changes. I agree he hasnt shown us too much on the defesnive end, yet....but he will

I hope so.  I want to see what so many Celtics fans see in Green.  I don't see much more than an average player, rather than the all-star that others do.


I'M THE SILVERBACK GORILLA IN THIS MOTHER——— AND DON'T NONE OF YA'LL EVER FORGET IT!@ 34 minutes