Saturday AM Round Table - February 18, 2012

[Q_FBE]

As of now I am on the fence of whether Danny will make major trades early next month to blow this team up or not. Reading the tea leaves, if I book my Mid March trip to Golden State and Sacremento, Doc Rivers could only have 7 players available due to trades in work. It does not seem worth it to spend (up to) 2 grand for Celtics product uncertainty. But inviting Mike Gorman to lunch at Napa Valley and having him accept would be worth the trip, Game or no Game.

A friend from the Boston Sports Group of Seattle had some insightful posts on our facebook group. I am gonna share his thoughts here and I agree with them wholeheartedly:

There've been rumors all season long, and likely will continue to be. By all accounts, Ainge is pretty much going to shop around until the trade deadline in March. It obviously doesn't do much to help this group's confidence or f...ind their consistency, but on the other hand, these guys are as professional as any group in the league and they understand the business side. Although Pierce was a little hurt early on by the rumors he could be shopped (which I never thought were that serious--I don't think even Ainge trades Pierce without a request from The Captain), he motivated himself back into form.
I love this group. I've always liked each of the guys individually, I love Doc, I like how they came together and formed such an awesome basketball team, I've loved their grit for the past 5 seasons. Like most other C's fans, I'm bummed they didn't win another title or two, but a few bad breaks here and there really screwed things.
The one "unforced error" of the "New Big Three" era was obviously trading away Perk. Though they weren't the frontrunners last season, I still think they could have had a legit chance at knocking of the Heat in 7 with he and KG anchoring the D in the playoffs. It just ruined the team's identify and I think really hurt the guys. I know I just mentioned their professionalism, but I think that one stung because of everything they'd been through together.
But that's why I think at this point Danny shopping around is expected by the guys. And, look, I was p---ed at him for the Perk trade, and it's obviously not his fault Green turned into nothing this year, but I understand why he's shopping. If you can truly position yourself into contention in the next 1-3 seasons with a good trade, you have to do that rather than take the 10 percent or less chance that this group gets through the East and wins a title. The real problem is that I don't think there's a truly reasonable trade out there that will make a big difference. I think the safest approach is simply clearing the deck in the offseason, seeing if the guys will come back at lower pay for the ends of their careers (though KG may be done anyway, sadly) and see what you can do via free agency and/or sign-and-trades .
Anyway, unless a Dwight Howard offer is on the table, which doesn't seem likely, then I just hope I get to see these guys make their final run. Who know? There's always a
chance....

Oh, and regarding Rondo, he's the ultimate love-hate relationship for me. I love all the great things that he does and I have so much fun watching him play. He's really come into his own and been the reason the C's have continued to contend... as the Big 3 have aged.
BUT, he is mercurial (I can forgive him that, to an extent because he was thrust into such a tough situation so young and because he has been the subject of a lot of trade rumors and criticism over the years), and his game is not complete. At this point, 6 seasons in, it looks like he'll probably never develop a decent, let alone consistent jump shot.
For all the good things he's done for the team these past few years, his poor jumper and free throw shooting are the two biggest reasons the team didn't win another title (outside of the KG knee injury, the Perk ACL tear in Game 6, and the Perk trade last year). I know those are lots of mitigating circumstances outside his control, but had Rondo been JUST a tad better, Especially in the 09-10 Finals, the Celtics win that Game 7. The Lakers were able to simply dare Rondo to shoot and clog the lane. It's like clockwork; when the games get tight down the stretch and the D ratchets up, he doesn't get those fast breaks and paths to the basket and he can't break down the D. Without a jumper to spread the D (and subliminal fear of getting fouled and going to the line), he's essentially "fighting one-handed."
Anyway although it's probably unfair and overly harsh to blame him, it doesn't change the fact that he's a very good and unique, but limited player. Moreover, there's also the fact that he's probably most useful when he has talent around him. So, going forward, in the absence of more talent, he's not going to be a serviceable #1 "franchise" guy.
Don't trade him for nothing, but do what's best for the team going forward.

[indeedproceed]

I think no matter how the Celtics play here on out, Danny will make a move if it makes sense talent-wise and future-flexible-wise. If he doesn't find one, he won't.

[PosImpos]

Most of that makes sense, except for the idea -- which I've heard in numerous places -- that if there aren't any good free agent options this off-season, Danny should just bring back the gang on short, cheap deals for one more run.

What's the point?  If they weren't good enough last year, and they probably aren't good enough this year, what makes you think it'll be good enough next year?  Bringing back the old guys for another run is basically telling the fan base "what we care most about is selling tickets, not putting this team in a position to be really good again as soon as possible."

In other words, it would be a waste of a season for the sake of selling more tickets and maybe a playoff round.  I'm hoping that ownership isn't that desperate to make money.

[chambers]

Most of that makes sense, except for the idea -- which I've heard in numerous places -- that if there aren't any good free agent options this off-season, Danny should just bring back the gang on short, cheap deals for one more run.

What's the point?  If they weren't good enough last year, and they probably aren't good enough this year, what makes you think it'll be good enough next year?  Bringing back the old guys for another run is basically telling the fan base "what we care most about is selling tickets, not putting this team in a position to be really good again as soon as possible."

In other words, it would be a waste of a season for the sake of selling more tickets and maybe a playoff round.  I'm hoping that ownership isn't that desperate to make money.

I've read the stuff in the OP's post a million times on these boards.
Anyway, I don't think Danny will do this, he would rather win sooner than swim around the 7th-8th seed for another year or two.
But for arguments sake, I wonder how good this team could have been if:
*Green hadn't gone down.
*we had gotten David West.
Those are two crucial factors that could equate to another 5 wins and 5 less losses than we currently have right now- something that is very plausible.
In other words, we'd be second in the East right now at 20 wins and 9 losses and a definite 'contender'.

Is Danny thinking that we:
*Bring back the old guys on the cheap AND sign a starting caliber center to play with them?
*Jeff Green may just good or better than he was last season.

If we could add a starting center and a solid backup big to this roster on short contracts(1-2 years). Plus a decent shooting/off guard to run with Rondo and Jeff Green. Maybe a player like David West who is like an upgraded version of Brandon Bass.
JO's 6 million is gone, with KG and Ray coming back on the cheap (4-5 million each?) that's still $27 million left over.
He could go after two starters (at least one starter to replace Ray and one to replace JO) on a short term deal, whilst keeping KG as a starter with Rondo and Pierce.

I guess it all depends on what happens with Dwight and D Will but if they fall through Danny may feel that by bringing them back as bench players we can field a decent (contending) team:

PG Rondo
SG Jeff Green (or Iguaduala, Monta Ellis, Stephen Jackson, Ben Gordon, maybe even bring back Tony Allen- even try and take Harden from OKC with a max offer which they'll probably match)
SFPierce
PF KG (or Millsap, Jefferson, Lamar Odom, Dujuan Blair with KG off bench)
C (Dalambert, Okafur, Brendan Wright,Peckovic)

Ray as the 6th man or Green etc..
Essentially a younger starting 5 that runs with Rondo and can guard Wade and Lebron.

We will have so much money that I think it's the most realistic option if Danny can get these guys on short term deals- guys like Lamar and S Jackson will be going cheap and both can still ball.

Again, it comes down to blowing it up and going to lottery town, or trying to put pieces around Rondo and Pierce, more so Rondo because he is entering his prime and Danny may want to test the running horses version of the Celtics.

[PosImpos]

Most of that makes sense, except for the idea -- which I've heard in numerous places -- that if there aren't any good free agent options this off-season, Danny should just bring back the gang on short, cheap deals for one more run.

What's the point?  If they weren't good enough last year, and they probably aren't good enough this year, what makes you think it'll be good enough next year?  Bringing back the old guys for another run is basically telling the fan base "what we care most about is selling tickets, not putting this team in a position to be really good again as soon as possible."

In other words, it would be a waste of a season for the sake of selling more tickets and maybe a playoff round.  I'm hoping that ownership isn't that desperate to make money.

I've read the stuff in the OP's post a million times on these boards.
Anyway, I don't think Danny will do this, he would rather win sooner than swim around the 7th-8th seed for another year or two.
But for arguments sake, I wonder how good this team could have been if:
*Green hadn't gone down.
*we had gotten David West.
Those are two crucial factors that could equate to another 5 wins and 5 less losses than we currently have right now- something that is very plausible.
In other words, we'd be second in the East right now at 20 wins and 9 losses and a definite 'contender'.

Is Danny thinking that we:
*Bring back the old guys on the cheap AND sign a starting caliber center to play with them?
*Jeff Green may just good or better than he was last season.

If we could add a starting center and a solid backup big to this roster on short contracts(1-2 years). Plus a decent shooting/off guard to run with Rondo and Jeff Green. Maybe a player like David West who is like an upgraded version of Brandon Bass.
JO's 6 million is gone, with KG and Ray coming back on the cheap (4-5 million each?) that's still $27 million left over.
He could go after two starters (at least one starter to replace Ray and one to replace JO) on a short term deal, whilst keeping KG as a starter with Rondo and Pierce.

I guess it all depends on what happens with Dwight and D Will but if they fall through Danny may feel that by bringing them back as bench players we can field a decent (contending) team:

PG Rondo
SG Jeff Green (or Iguaduala, Monta Ellis, Stephen Jackson, Ben Gordon, maybe even bring back Tony Allen- even try and take Harden from OKC with a max offer which they'll probably match)
SFPierce
PF KG (or Millsap, Jefferson, Lamar Odom, Dujuan Blair with KG off bench)
C (Dalambert, Okafur, Brendan Wright,Peckovic)

Ray as the 6th man or Green etc..
Essentially a younger starting 5 that runs with Rondo and can guard Wade and Lebron.

We will have so much money that I think it's the most realistic option if Danny can get these guys on short term deals- guys like Lamar and S Jackson will be going cheap and both can still ball.

Again, it comes down to blowing it up and going to lottery town, or trying to put pieces around Rondo and Pierce, more so Rondo because he is entering his prime and Danny may want to test the running horses version of the Celtics.

Even your "best case scenario" team doesn't look like it'd be any better than the current version of the Sixers, or the Nuggets, or the Hawks.

This team's contender status was always predicated on the Big 3 each having the ability to play like superstars on a fairly regular basis, and together combining to be one of the hardest units in the league to stop and score against when it really mattered. 

Now that the Big 3 are in their mid-30's, those superstar performances are much fewer and farther between. 

Point being, the Big 3 are complementary pieces at this point -- at least as far as building a contender is concerned.  So unless Danny can rustle up a centerpiece player in the off-season, it doesn't make much sense to keep riding the old fellas as if they are still a championship core.  Rondo is a very good player, and he's capable of putting on star performances at times, but he doesn't count as that centerpiece.

[LooseCannon]

Most of that makes sense, except for the idea -- which I've heard in numerous places -- that if there aren't any good free agent options this off-season, Danny should just bring back the gang on short, cheap deals for one more run.

What's the point?

The point is, if there aren't any good free agent options, it might be best to only sign players to one-year deals and preserve cap space for 2013 and if you're doing to do that you might as well bring back Garnett and Allen, or at least one of them, rather than doing the equivalent of Detroit signing Ben Gordon and Charlie Villanueva.

If the Celtics had Garnett, Allen, Pierce, Rondo, Pietrus, Bass, Bradley, Johnson, and maybe Wilcox and possibly Jeff Green next season, got lucky with at least one draft pick who plays well enough and earns enough minutes that he gets picked for the Rising Stars game during All-Star weekend, and picks up a center on a short contract who performs at close to the same level as what Samuel Dalembert has been doing in Houston, I'd take that for 2012-2013.

I could probably come up with a chain of events so that this leads to Eric Gordon or Stephen Curry or Tyreke Evans becoming a Celtic in the summer of 2013.

[PosImpos]

Most of that makes sense, except for the idea -- which I've heard in numerous places -- that if there aren't any good free agent options this off-season, Danny should just bring back the gang on short, cheap deals for one more run.

What's the point?

The point is, if there aren't any good free agent options, it might be best to only sign players to one-year deals and preserve cap space for 2013 and if you're doing to do that you might as well bring back Garnett and Allen, or at least one of them, rather than doing the equivalent of Detroit signing Ben Gordon and Charlie Villanueva.

If the Celtics had Garnett, Allen, Pierce, Rondo, Pietrus, Bass, Bradley, Johnson, and maybe Wilcox and possibly Jeff Green next season, got lucky with at least one draft pick who plays well enough and earns enough minutes that he gets picked for the Rising Stars game during All-Star weekend, and picks up a center on a short contract who performs at close to the same level as what Samuel Dalembert has been doing in Houston, I'd take that for 2012-2013.

I could probably come up with a chain of events so that this leads to Eric Gordon or Stephen Curry or Tyreke Evans becoming a Celtic in the summer of 2013.

But why?

Why give playing time and a roster spot on a rebuilding team to old players who are only going to make us win more games, hurting our draft position?  The two primary goals of a rebuilding team are to develop young players and to draft high.

Playing time on a rebuilding team is extremely valuable.  The vast majority of it should go to young players who can become future assets.

Money we spend over the veteran minimum should only go to guys who are going to be contributors or assets for multiple years.  Otherwise, we should give minimum deals to veterans who won't play much and who will be mentors for the young guys.

[chambers]

Most of that makes sense, except for the idea -- which I've heard in numerous places -- that if there aren't any good free agent options this off-season, Danny should just bring back the gang on short, cheap deals for one more run.

What's the point?  If they weren't good enough last year, and they probably aren't good enough this year, what makes you think it'll be good enough next year?  Bringing back the old guys for another run is basically telling the fan base "what we care most about is selling tickets, not putting this team in a position to be really good again as soon as possible."

In other words, it would be a waste of a season for the sake of selling more tickets and maybe a playoff round.  I'm hoping that ownership isn't that desperate to make money.

I've read the stuff in the OP's post a million times on these boards.
Anyway, I don't think Danny will do this, he would rather win sooner than swim around the 7th-8th seed for another year or two.
But for arguments sake, I wonder how good this team could have been if:
*Green hadn't gone down.
*we had gotten David West.
Those are two crucial factors that could equate to another 5 wins and 5 less losses than we currently have right now- something that is very plausible.
In other words, we'd be second in the East right now at 20 wins and 9 losses and a definite 'contender'.

Is Danny thinking that we:
*Bring back the old guys on the cheap AND sign a starting caliber center to play with them?
*Jeff Green may just good or better than he was last season.

If we could add a starting center and a solid backup big to this roster on short contracts(1-2 years). Plus a decent shooting/off guard to run with Rondo and Jeff Green. Maybe a player like David West who is like an upgraded version of Brandon Bass.
JO's 6 million is gone, with KG and Ray coming back on the cheap (4-5 million each?) that's still $27 million left over.
He could go after two starters (at least one starter to replace Ray and one to replace JO) on a short term deal, whilst keeping KG as a starter with Rondo and Pierce.

I guess it all depends on what happens with Dwight and D Will but if they fall through Danny may feel that by bringing them back as bench players we can field a decent (contending) team:

PG Rondo
SG Jeff Green (or Iguaduala, Monta Ellis, Stephen Jackson, Ben Gordon, maybe even bring back Tony Allen- even try and take Harden from OKC with a max offer which they'll probably match)
SFPierce
PF KG (or Millsap, Jefferson, Lamar Odom, Dujuan Blair with KG off bench)
C (Dalambert, Okafur, Brendan Wright,Peckovic)

Ray as the 6th man or Green etc..
Essentially a younger starting 5 that runs with Rondo and can guard Wade and Lebron.

We will have so much money that I think it's the most realistic option if Danny can get these guys on short term deals- guys like Lamar and S Jackson will be going cheap and both can still ball.

Again, it comes down to blowing it up and going to lottery town, or trying to put pieces around Rondo and Pierce, more so Rondo because he is entering his prime and Danny may want to test the running horses version of the Celtics.

Even your "best case scenario" team doesn't look like it'd be any better than the current version of the Sixers, or the Nuggets, or the Hawks.

This team's contender status was always predicated on the Big 3 each having the ability to play like superstars on a fairly regular basis, and together combining to be one of the hardest units in the league to stop and score against when it really mattered. 

Now that the Big 3 are in their mid-30's, those superstar performances are much fewer and farther between. 

Point being, the Big 3 are complementary pieces at this point -- at least as far as building a contender is concerned.  So unless Danny can rustle up a centerpiece player in the off-season, it doesn't make much sense to keep riding the old fellas as if they are still a championship core.  Rondo is a very good player, and he's capable of putting on star performances at times, but he doesn't count as that centerpiece.

The idea is to try and get a situation like the one that they had planned this off season.
If we had David West and Jeff Green on this team, as I mentioned earlier, it's very possible that we would be a top 3 team in the East, with much less pressure on KG, Pierce and Ray to score (the 30-35 points from Green + West ensures that.) Throw in 10-15 from Bass each night and you have production from three guys that takes an enormous amount of pressure off the Big 3, but still keeps us as contenders.

Danny will probably look at this scenario so don't be surprised if we do replace one or two starters and end up a much better team with younger more athletic fill ins with two of the big three coming in off the bench.

I guarantee he's thinking to himself, [dang] I wish we had West and Green so help us on offense, leading to some similar ideas next year as a back up plan to losing out on major free agents.

[PosImpos]

Most of that makes sense, except for the idea -- which I've heard in numerous places -- that if there aren't any good free agent options this off-season, Danny should just bring back the gang on short, cheap deals for one more run.

What's the point?  If they weren't good enough last year, and they probably aren't good enough this year, what makes you think it'll be good enough next year?  Bringing back the old guys for another run is basically telling the fan base "what we care most about is selling tickets, not putting this team in a position to be really good again as soon as possible."

In other words, it would be a waste of a season for the sake of selling more tickets and maybe a playoff round.  I'm hoping that ownership isn't that desperate to make money.

I've read the stuff in the OP's post a million times on these boards.
Anyway, I don't think Danny will do this, he would rather win sooner than swim around the 7th-8th seed for another year or two.
But for arguments sake, I wonder how good this team could have been if:
*Green hadn't gone down.
*we had gotten David West.
Those are two crucial factors that could equate to another 5 wins and 5 less losses than we currently have right now- something that is very plausible.
In other words, we'd be second in the East right now at 20 wins and 9 losses and a definite 'contender'.

Is Danny thinking that we:
*Bring back the old guys on the cheap AND sign a starting caliber center to play with them?
*Jeff Green may just good or better than he was last season.

If we could add a starting center and a solid backup big to this roster on short contracts(1-2 years). Plus a decent shooting/off guard to run with Rondo and Jeff Green. Maybe a player like David West who is like an upgraded version of Brandon Bass.
JO's 6 million is gone, with KG and Ray coming back on the cheap (4-5 million each?) that's still $27 million left over.
He could go after two starters (at least one starter to replace Ray and one to replace JO) on a short term deal, whilst keeping KG as a starter with Rondo and Pierce.

I guess it all depends on what happens with Dwight and D Will but if they fall through Danny may feel that by bringing them back as bench players we can field a decent (contending) team:

PG Rondo
SG Jeff Green (or Iguaduala, Monta Ellis, Stephen Jackson, Ben Gordon, maybe even bring back Tony Allen- even try and take Harden from OKC with a max offer which they'll probably match)
SFPierce
PF KG (or Millsap, Jefferson, Lamar Odom, Dujuan Blair with KG off bench)
C (Dalambert, Okafur, Brendan Wright,Peckovic)

Ray as the 6th man or Green etc..
Essentially a younger starting 5 that runs with Rondo and can guard Wade and Lebron.

We will have so much money that I think it's the most realistic option if Danny can get these guys on short term deals- guys like Lamar and S Jackson will be going cheap and both can still ball.

Again, it comes down to blowing it up and going to lottery town, or trying to put pieces around Rondo and Pierce, more so Rondo because he is entering his prime and Danny may want to test the running horses version of the Celtics.

Even your "best case scenario" team doesn't look like it'd be any better than the current version of the Sixers, or the Nuggets, or the Hawks.

This team's contender status was always predicated on the Big 3 each having the ability to play like superstars on a fairly regular basis, and together combining to be one of the hardest units in the league to stop and score against when it really mattered. 

Now that the Big 3 are in their mid-30's, those superstar performances are much fewer and farther between. 

Point being, the Big 3 are complementary pieces at this point -- at least as far as building a contender is concerned.  So unless Danny can rustle up a centerpiece player in the off-season, it doesn't make much sense to keep riding the old fellas as if they are still a championship core.  Rondo is a very good player, and he's capable of putting on star performances at times, but he doesn't count as that centerpiece.

The idea is to try and get a situation like the one that they had planned this off season.
If we had David West and Jeff Green on this team, as I mentioned earlier, it's very possible that we would be a top 3 team in the East, with much less pressure on KG, Pierce and Ray to score (the 30-35 points from Green + West ensures that.) Throw in 10-15 from Bass each night and you have production from three guys that takes an enormous amount of pressure off the Big 3, but still keeps us as contenders.

Danny will probably look at this scenario so don't be surprised if we do replace one or two starters and end up a much better team with younger more athletic fill ins with two of the big three coming in off the bench.

I guarantee he's thinking to himself, [dang] I wish we had West and Green so help us on offense, leading to some similar ideas next year as a back up plan to losing out on major free agents.

Yeah, but even if we had West and Green this season, would we have a contender, as opposed to a high-win pretender like the Pacers?

Next season, the Big 3 are yet another year older.  Even a big upgrade isn't going to change the fact that there's no lead for this blockbuster.  No point in spending all that money and all that time just to put together a movie with no star.  Know what I mean?

[Inside-Out]

We wouldn't HAVE to use the cap space.  We can stay under the cap, save money, and use it to aquire assets by facilitating trades, e.g. getting an extra pick, etc.

The great advantages of the Big 3 era were first that the C's would always have an advantage at one or more position on every single night.  No other team could really match up 2-4 with legit allstars.  That's no longer the case, as we no longer have 3 or 4 allstars at the moment, and Pierce is fading, and Rondo's selection might never happen again in this current age of PGs, especially high-scoring ones.

The second great advantage, underappreciated in my view, is that each player is prototypical for their position: nobody undersized or slow, a SG that shoots, PF with power, etc.  No wonder they all fit together so well, eh?

The real question, to me, isn't just whether we can get a superstar in FA (though, of course, that'd be fabulous), but can we put together enough talent at every position that can fit together as well as the title teams did/do.  That's harder than just adding talent/big names (like the Isaiah Knicks tried).

Can Rondo be one of those pieces?  Sure, maybe.  It depends on who else comes in.

Can Jeff Green be one of those pieces?  I'd say probably.  Bradley is showing some chops, and will surely have a role off the bench.  Johnson, too.  So going forward, I think we have some solid pieces in

Rondo
Bradley
Green
Johnson

but need that solid big in the middle.  Wilcox is showing some chemistry out there, who knows.  That's probably some evidence that an allstar talent is less important than fit sometimes, since Wilcox isn't considered a top big by any stretch.

So I'll see how things play out, but I think Danny knows he needs more pieces, not unlike 2002.  Don't be surprised to see moves that bring in more pieces than go out.

[chambers]

Most of that makes sense, except for the idea -- which I've heard in numerous places -- that if there aren't any good free agent options this off-season, Danny should just bring back the gang on short, cheap deals for one more run.

What's the point?  If they weren't good enough last year, and they probably aren't good enough this year, what makes you think it'll be good enough next year?  Bringing back the old guys for another run is basically telling the fan base "what we care most about is selling tickets, not putting this team in a position to be really good again as soon as possible."

In other words, it would be a waste of a season for the sake of selling more tickets and maybe a playoff round.  I'm hoping that ownership isn't that desperate to make money.

I've read the stuff in the OP's post a million times on these boards.
Anyway, I don't think Danny will do this, he would rather win sooner than swim around the 7th-8th seed for another year or two.
But for arguments sake, I wonder how good this team could have been if:
*Green hadn't gone down.
*we had gotten David West.
Those are two crucial factors that could equate to another 5 wins and 5 less losses than we currently have right now- something that is very plausible.
In other words, we'd be second in the East right now at 20 wins and 9 losses and a definite 'contender'.

Is Danny thinking that we:
*Bring back the old guys on the cheap AND sign a starting caliber center to play with them?
*Jeff Green may just good or better than he was last season.

If we could add a starting center and a solid backup big to this roster on short contracts(1-2 years). Plus a decent shooting/off guard to run with Rondo and Jeff Green. Maybe a player like David West who is like an upgraded version of Brandon Bass.
JO's 6 million is gone, with KG and Ray coming back on the cheap (4-5 million each?) that's still $27 million left over.
He could go after two starters (at least one starter to replace Ray and one to replace JO) on a short term deal, whilst keeping KG as a starter with Rondo and Pierce.

I guess it all depends on what happens with Dwight and D Will but if they fall through Danny may feel that by bringing them back as bench players we can field a decent (contending) team:

PG Rondo
SG Jeff Green (or Iguaduala, Monta Ellis, Stephen Jackson, Ben Gordon, maybe even bring back Tony Allen- even try and take Harden from OKC with a max offer which they'll probably match)
SFPierce
PF KG (or Millsap, Jefferson, Lamar Odom, Dujuan Blair with KG off bench)
C (Dalambert, Okafur, Brendan Wright,Peckovic)

Ray as the 6th man or Green etc..
Essentially a younger starting 5 that runs with Rondo and can guard Wade and Lebron.

We will have so much money that I think it's the most realistic option if Danny can get these guys on short term deals- guys like Lamar and S Jackson will be going cheap and both can still ball.

Again, it comes down to blowing it up and going to lottery town, or trying to put pieces around Rondo and Pierce, more so Rondo because he is entering his prime and Danny may want to test the running horses version of the Celtics.

Even your "best case scenario" team doesn't look like it'd be any better than the current version of the Sixers, or the Nuggets, or the Hawks.

This team's contender status was always predicated on the Big 3 each having the ability to play like superstars on a fairly regular basis, and together combining to be one of the hardest units in the league to stop and score against when it really mattered. 

Now that the Big 3 are in their mid-30's, those superstar performances are much fewer and farther between. 

Point being, the Big 3 are complementary pieces at this point -- at least as far as building a contender is concerned.  So unless Danny can rustle up a centerpiece player in the off-season, it doesn't make much sense to keep riding the old fellas as if they are still a championship core.  Rondo is a very good player, and he's capable of putting on star performances at times, but he doesn't count as that centerpiece.

The idea is to try and get a situation like the one that they had planned this off season.
If we had David West and Jeff Green on this team, as I mentioned earlier, it's very possible that we would be a top 3 team in the East, with much less pressure on KG, Pierce and Ray to score (the 30-35 points from Green + West ensures that.) Throw in 10-15 from Bass each night and you have production from three guys that takes an enormous amount of pressure off the Big 3, but still keeps us as contenders.

Danny will probably look at this scenario so don't be surprised if we do replace one or two starters and end up a much better team with younger more athletic fill ins with two of the big three coming in off the bench.

I guarantee he's thinking to himself, [dang] I wish we had West and Green so help us on offense, leading to some similar ideas next year as a back up plan to losing out on major free agents.

Yeah, but even if we had West and Green this season, would we have a contender, as opposed to a high-win pretender like the Pacers?

Next season, the Big 3 are yet another year older.  Even a big upgrade isn't going to change the fact that there's no lead for this blockbuster.  No point in spending all that money and all that time just to put together a movie with no star.  Know what I mean?

I agree that our chances of getting anywhere (The Finals) with such a roster would be difficult, but I can't see much else for Danny to think about other than basically taking on salary next year with some higher picks with that salary garbage to move up the draft.

We can wait till 2014 and go after guys like Pau Gasol, Randolph in the middle, but in 2013 we will probably have to lock up a shooting guard to run with Rondo in prepartion
It would take a year but with our money situation we could potentially field a team of:

Rondo
Iggy,
Pierce(hopefully a younger, cheaper replacement by then aka Jeff Green?)
Josh Smith
and Gasol/Randolph- we'd probably be in a better spot at least for the next 2-3 year period rather than hoping our eventual top 5 pick turns into gold and our late 2013 picks over achieve.

Again, if the team doesn't work, we are stuck in a situation like we are now with stars on the older side locked in to big contracts. The worst part is trying to make a team like that always costs you extra years in salary because older stars want that long contract.

Personally I am in favour of bloooowwing everything up and watching Danny work his magic in creating a new, young, exciting team that we can watch grow like the Thunder or the 76ers. I just want people to see that there are other options and even teams like the Thunder have been so lucky with injuries and players with potential actually blossoming into something worthwhile.
Rebuilding can be a terribly depressing stage and there's a huge possibility that we would never be lucky enough to develop a team as good as the above mentioned with Rondo, Iggy, Gasol etc...
Another depressing part about this would be if we decided to keep Rondo and the poor guy had to go through the prime years of his career carrying a terrible rebuilding squad- I'd rather trade him for a top 5 pick than watch that.

[PosImpos]

Most of that makes sense, except for the idea -- which I've heard in numerous places -- that if there aren't any good free agent options this off-season, Danny should just bring back the gang on short, cheap deals for one more run.

What's the point?  If they weren't good enough last year, and they probably aren't good enough this year, what makes you think it'll be good enough next year?  Bringing back the old guys for another run is basically telling the fan base "what we care most about is selling tickets, not putting this team in a position to be really good again as soon as possible."

In other words, it would be a waste of a season for the sake of selling more tickets and maybe a playoff round.  I'm hoping that ownership isn't that desperate to make money.

I've read the stuff in the OP's post a million times on these boards.
Anyway, I don't think Danny will do this, he would rather win sooner than swim around the 7th-8th seed for another year or two.
But for arguments sake, I wonder how good this team could have been if:
*Green hadn't gone down.
*we had gotten David West.
Those are two crucial factors that could equate to another 5 wins and 5 less losses than we currently have right now- something that is very plausible.
In other words, we'd be second in the East right now at 20 wins and 9 losses and a definite 'contender'.

Is Danny thinking that we:
*Bring back the old guys on the cheap AND sign a starting caliber center to play with them?
*Jeff Green may just good or better than he was last season.

If we could add a starting center and a solid backup big to this roster on short contracts(1-2 years). Plus a decent shooting/off guard to run with Rondo and Jeff Green. Maybe a player like David West who is like an upgraded version of Brandon Bass.
JO's 6 million is gone, with KG and Ray coming back on the cheap (4-5 million each?) that's still $27 million left over.
He could go after two starters (at least one starter to replace Ray and one to replace JO) on a short term deal, whilst keeping KG as a starter with Rondo and Pierce.

I guess it all depends on what happens with Dwight and D Will but if they fall through Danny may feel that by bringing them back as bench players we can field a decent (contending) team:

PG Rondo
SG Jeff Green (or Iguaduala, Monta Ellis, Stephen Jackson, Ben Gordon, maybe even bring back Tony Allen- even try and take Harden from OKC with a max offer which they'll probably match)
SFPierce
PF KG (or Millsap, Jefferson, Lamar Odom, Dujuan Blair with KG off bench)
C (Dalambert, Okafur, Brendan Wright,Peckovic)

Ray as the 6th man or Green etc..
Essentially a younger starting 5 that runs with Rondo and can guard Wade and Lebron.

We will have so much money that I think it's the most realistic option if Danny can get these guys on short term deals- guys like Lamar and S Jackson will be going cheap and both can still ball.

Again, it comes down to blowing it up and going to lottery town, or trying to put pieces around Rondo and Pierce, more so Rondo because he is entering his prime and Danny may want to test the running horses version of the Celtics.

Even your "best case scenario" team doesn't look like it'd be any better than the current version of the Sixers, or the Nuggets, or the Hawks.

This team's contender status was always predicated on the Big 3 each having the ability to play like superstars on a fairly regular basis, and together combining to be one of the hardest units in the league to stop and score against when it really mattered.  

Now that the Big 3 are in their mid-30's, those superstar performances are much fewer and farther between.  

Point being, the Big 3 are complementary pieces at this point -- at least as far as building a contender is concerned.  So unless Danny can rustle up a centerpiece player in the off-season, it doesn't make much sense to keep riding the old fellas as if they are still a championship core.  Rondo is a very good player, and he's capable of putting on star performances at times, but he doesn't count as that centerpiece.

The idea is to try and get a situation like the one that they had planned this off season.
If we had David West and Jeff Green on this team, as I mentioned earlier, it's very possible that we would be a top 3 team in the East, with much less pressure on KG, Pierce and Ray to score (the 30-35 points from Green + West ensures that.) Throw in 10-15 from Bass each night and you have production from three guys that takes an enormous amount of pressure off the Big 3, but still keeps us as contenders.

Danny will probably look at this scenario so don't be surprised if we do replace one or two starters and end up a much better team with younger more athletic fill ins with two of the big three coming in off the bench.

I guarantee he's thinking to himself, [dang] I wish we had West and Green so help us on offense, leading to some similar ideas next year as a back up plan to losing out on major free agents.

Yeah, but even if we had West and Green this season, would we have a contender, as opposed to a high-win pretender like the Pacers?

Next season, the Big 3 are yet another year older.  Even a big upgrade isn't going to change the fact that there's no lead for this blockbuster.  No point in spending all that money and all that time just to put together a movie with no star.  Know what I mean?

I agree that our chances of getting anywhere (The Finals) with such a roster would be difficult, but I can't see much else for Danny to think about other than basically taking on salary next year with some higher picks with that salary garbage to move up the draft.

We can wait till 2014 and go after guys like Pau Gasol, Randolph in the middle, but in 2013 we will probably have to lock up a shooting guard to run with Rondo in prepartion
It would take a year but with our money situation we could potentially field a team of:

Rondo
Iggy,
Pierce(hopefully a younger, cheaper replacement by then aka Jeff Green?)
Josh Smith
and Gasol/Randolph- we'd probably be in a better spot at least for the next 2-3 year period rather than hoping our eventual top 5 pick turns into gold and our late 2013 picks over achieve.

Again, if the team doesn't work, we are stuck in a situation like we are now with stars on the older side locked in to big contracts. The worst part is trying to make a team like that always costs you extra years in salary because older stars want that long contract.

Personally I am in favour of bloooowwing everything up and watching Danny work his magic in creating a new, young, exciting team that we can watch grow like the Thunder or the 76ers. I just want people to see that there are other options and even teams like the Thunder have been so lucky with injuries and players with potential actually blossoming into something worthwhile.
Rebuilding can be a terribly depressing stage and there's a huge possibility that we would never be lucky enough to develop a team as good as the above mentioned with Rondo, Iggy, Gasol etc...
Another depressing part about this would be if we decided to keep Rondo and the poor guy had to go through the prime years of his career carrying a terrible rebuilding squad- I'd rather trade him for a top 5 pick than watch that.

You keep talking about opportunities to restock through free agency.  I just can't really see the wisdom in that route, for reasons I've already stated.

Lie low for a couple seasons at least, stockpile some young assets, and then maybe if Danny feels that's a solid enough core for the future, we can start looking to assemble complementary pieces through free agency.

Depressing it may be, but it's the reality in the NBA.  If your window of competition is closed, and you don't have a young core with the potential, it's time to rebuild to get one.

[LooseCannon]

Why give playing time and a roster spot on a rebuilding team to old players who are only going to make us win more games, hurting our draft position?  The two primary goals of a rebuilding team are to develop young players and to draft high.

Because I sincerely believe that by doing so, the Celtics could be in a position to acquire a top level player in the 2013 off-season by trade or free agency that would have the Celtics be a legitimate contender in 2013-2014.

I also think that having Rondo (and most likely Pierce) with Doc Rivers coaching and Danny Ainge doing the drafting will probably prevent the Celtics from having one of the worst five records in the league if Rondo and Pierce are healthy.  It's going to be hard to out-suck teams that are perennial losers due to lack of talent and mismanagement.