Author Topic: Celtics complain more.  (Read 3281 times)

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Celtics complain more.
« on: June 15, 2010, 05:09:51 PM »

Offline The Walker Wiggle

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From this morning's Wall Street Journal:

Quote
Lakers fans probably think their team is losing the NBA Finals because the referees are handing it to the Celtics. Boston fans probably say their narrow 3-2 lead is shocking because the refs are constantly cheating their team.

The players, of course, have their own thoughts. In the first five games of the Finals — which continue Tuesday with Game 6 in Los Angeles — the Celtics screamed, threw up their arms or spun around in disgust (or all three) after 48% of the fouls they were called for, according to an analysis by The Count. We looked at every foul in the series that wasn't intentional, tracked the observable reactions and gave extra weight to the more blatant complaints. The Lakers expressed displeasure about 36% of the time.

To my surprise, Ray Allen has been the most argumentative player, through five games, objecting to nearly three-quarters of the calls against him. Possibly a consequence of guarding Bryant for much of the series? Less of a surprise, Perkins (despite his six technicals) and Rasheed are close behind, objecting to 68% and 65% of calls, respectively.

Kobe and Gasol have made the most noise on the Lakers; both have argued half of the calls against them. (So has Rondo.) While Pierce and Garnett have been on their best behavior, or are anyway running their mouths at L.A.'s players and fans rather than the officials, and are only arguing 36% and 32% of calls. The quietest player from either team's regular rotation? The beleaguered Andrew Bynum, who's only complained about 15% of the calls against him.

Re: Celtics complain more.
« Reply #1 on: June 15, 2010, 05:12:11 PM »

Offline Roy Hobbs

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We argue more because we get screwed more.  ;)  

I mean, it would be pretty ridiculous for the Lakers to pout after the refs are handing them points, right?  Have there been any calls against Bynum yet for him to complain about?
« Last Edit: June 15, 2010, 05:19:13 PM by Roy Hobbs »

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Re: Celtics complain more.
« Reply #2 on: June 15, 2010, 05:13:31 PM »

Offline Birdbrain

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Well that would stand to reason with being called for 2x as many fouls. 

This stat is better +/-.


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Re: Celtics complain more.
« Reply #3 on: June 15, 2010, 05:17:45 PM »

Offline The Walker Wiggle

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Well that would stand to reason with being called for 2x as many fouls.

Well given that the results are expressed in percentages, I'm not sure the total number of fouls is going to influence the WSJ's results over much. (Except as Roy was quick to point out, no effort was made to account for the quality of the officiating.)

Re: Celtics complain more.
« Reply #4 on: June 15, 2010, 05:19:45 PM »

Offline Birdbrain

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Well that would stand to reason with being called for 2x as many fouls.

Well given that the results are expressed in percentages, I'm not sure the total number of fouls is going to influence the WSJ's results over much. (Except as Roy was quick to point out, no effort was made to account for the quality of the officiating.)

I'm sure that in regards to this discussion 3/6 and 15/30 are the same.
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Re: Celtics complain more.
« Reply #5 on: June 15, 2010, 05:25:54 PM »

Offline Bahku

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Forgive my ignorance, but who is "The Count" and what made him an expert on foul reaction analysis? This is just such a non-objective thing to analyze that I can't take it seriously at all ... I mean, "screamed, threw up their arms or spun around in disgust 48% of the time"?!? This is absurd! No obvious bias in this article ... not much!  :P
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Re: Celtics complain more.
« Reply #6 on: June 15, 2010, 05:26:08 PM »

Offline Prof. Clutch

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Does this take into account the times that a foul isn't called and players complain, because I'm sure kobe must lead all players in that.  Did you see the other night when Paul cleanly ripped the ball out of his hands, I think it was on the Artest missed free throws, and he threw out his arm in disgust at the referee for not calling a foul?

Re: Celtics complain more.
« Reply #7 on: June 15, 2010, 05:27:41 PM »

Offline papa shuttlesworth

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Sure, Ray is complaining about 78% of calls, but half of those are phantom calls on Kobe, which brings his effective complaining (adjusted for pace) to just under 40%.  

/Hollinger

Re: Celtics complain more.
« Reply #8 on: June 15, 2010, 05:29:07 PM »

Offline Birdbrain

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Sure, Ray is complaining about 78% of calls, but half of those are phantom calls on Kobe, which brings his effective complaining (adjusted for pace) to just under 40%.  

/Hollinger

TP thanks for the laugh.
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Re: Celtics complain more.
« Reply #9 on: June 15, 2010, 05:29:24 PM »

Offline Drucci

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Does this take into account the times that a foul isn't called and players complain, because I'm sure kobe must lead all players in that.  Did you see the other night when Paul cleanly ripped the ball out of his hands, I think it was on the Artest missed free throws, and he threw out his arm in disgust at the referee for not calling a foul?

Yeah, if you take into account the complaints about alleged "non calls", Kobe leads the way, probably followed closely by Fisher and Gasol.

Re: Celtics complain more.
« Reply #10 on: June 15, 2010, 05:31:48 PM »

Offline The Walker Wiggle

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Does this take into account the times that a foul isn't called and players complain, because I'm sure kobe must lead all players in that.  Did you see the other night when Paul cleanly ripped the ball out of his hands, I think it was on the Artest missed free throws, and he threw out his arm in disgust at the referee for not calling a foul?

It doesn't appear to have, although I would've enjoyed it. The WSJ did have this to say on Bryant:

Quote
At least Mr. Bryant's carping was usually sedate, consisting mainly of dirty looks and puzzled stares toward referees (we didn't include the times he yelled at a teammate for being in the wrong place).

Re: Celtics complain more.
« Reply #11 on: June 15, 2010, 05:33:38 PM »

Offline wiley

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I would say the percentages don't matter.....If you reverse the number of fouls called in this series the compaint numbers would reverse.....

As you reach that threshold where you are removed from action the complaints rise significantly....

Re: Celtics complain more.
« Reply #12 on: June 15, 2010, 05:35:01 PM »

Offline wiley

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I would say the percentages don't matter.....If you reverse the number of fouls called in this series the compaint numbers would reverse.....

As you reach that threshold where you are removed from action the complaints rise significantly....

Perk and Sheed aside (they alone have the potential to make what I said untrue....)

Re: Celtics complain more.
« Reply #13 on: June 15, 2010, 05:35:21 PM »

Offline Fan from VT

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Well that would stand to reason with being called for 2x as many fouls.

Well given that the results are expressed in percentages, I'm not sure the total number of fouls is going to influence the WSJ's results over much. (Except as Roy was quick to point out, no effort was made to account for the quality of the officiating.)

I'm sure that in regards to this discussion 3/6 and 15/30 are the same.

I think total number WOULD affect percentages. After all, there's less reason to complain when you pick up your 2nd foul in the 3rd quarter and no free throws result (i.e. the Lakers) vs. when your team is shooting half as many free throws AGAIN, yet you get whistled for your 5th personal foul on the second play in a row and the other team goes to the line AGAIN.

Re: Celtics complain more.
« Reply #14 on: June 15, 2010, 05:46:02 PM »

Offline Roy Hobbs

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Also, it probably accounts for only a small percentage of the fouls, but from memory, the Lakers have a lot more intentional fouls than we have at the end of games.  I'm assuming that they didn't complain about those.

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