Could the Celtics be broken up if they get bounced in the first round?

[snively]

Another Perk offer I would consider is Perk to Detroit for Jason Maxiell and Jonas Jerebko and their 2nd round pick.  I think Maxiell can approximate Perk's offensive production with fewer turnovers and more speed.  The defensive drop-off is fairly significant, but I think Jerebko and a high 2nd would be worth it.  If Jerebko improves his shot, which I think is likely, he'll be a fantastic complement to Rondo and an aging big 3, much better than Posey.






  

[tenn_smoothie]

once again i ask ................

what are the specific locker room problems going on with this team - what is the contentious point between the older and younger players ??

[KungPoweChicken]

I'd be in favor of getting rid of everyone, but Pierce and Rondo, tank for two years (it's about time those lottery balls bounced are way), and try and sign a couple top flight free agents in 2011/12 (like Carmelo Anthony).

[nickagneta]

once again i ask ................

what are the specific locker room problems going on with this team - what is the contentious point between the older and younger players ??

Not sure. But there have been reports of this type of dichotomy existing in the locker room from some very credible local reporters. Details have not followed, probably most likely because these guys still have to interview these guys every single day until the end of the season and they don't want to be alienated from the players because they spilled out some personal dispute issues. In order to do their jobs they need the access to these players and they can't risk losing their sources of info simply to break word of the inner happenings of the locker room.

[RIPRED]

This thread is regarding something that BBallTim said in another thread about breaking up the team. He said that some people act like losing to the Cavs in the second round seems like such a bad outcome for the year that they advocate breaking up the team. He disagrees and I concur. Cleveland is the best team in the league, IMO, and there's no shame in losing to them whether it be the 2nd round or the ECFs.

That said, could the team be broken up if something else occurred? The only way I see huge major changes coming to this team this off season is a first round exit in bad fashion, ala the 1983 Milwaukee sweep of Boston. Would Danny Ainge after watching this team flounder through the last 4 months of the season and get knocked around in the first round decide that the chemistry of the club is all wrong and that big changes needed to be made? I don't know, he could.

Question is, if that happened who would go and who would stay. I think there are some definite locker room problems on this team that we have only heard whispers about. I think there may be a definite old guy/young guy divide on this team with the Big Three and Rasheed in one corner and Rondo, Perk, Baby and Tony Allen in the other. I think there may be some hard feelings that exist between certain members of each group and I think Danny will immediately address it if he decides it is what took this team down this year.

What gives me these feelings? Just some of the comments that have come out from Rondo and Perk and KG and Pierce during the year and some of the stuff I have heard on sports talk radio from Jackie MacMullen and Michael Holly, people I consider viable and knowledgeable of what might be happening in that locker room.

But if Danny would decide to break up the team, then who stays and who goes? Rondo and Perk seem like the most likely trading assets to return quality players but who are you going to get given Perk's small salary and Rondo being a BYC player. It would make it difficult to trade them and get anything back of quality that would be able to be added to the older guys because the amount of salary being traded is so small.

On the other hand, trading the older guys is going to be near impossible. KG is lame and his contract is huge. There's no guarantee he ever looks like he did  before the knee injury ever again. Rasheed has two years remaining on his contract, is owed over $13 million and is just really not a very good big man any more. Pierce is beat up and has lost some explosion and the respect of the refs regarding contact fouls, but he would be an expiring contract if he doesn't opt out and still has some value. Ray Allen in a sign and trade could also be possible.

So, if you love the make up and ability and talent of this team and think they have anything left in them after this year and want them to stay together, hope for a switch to flip and a coast through the first round. Otherwise, by month's end, we could be seeing the last of this group together.

Tony Allen is Pierce's closest friend on the team.

[arctic 3.0]

personally i believe its time to break up this team regardless of the outcome of the post season.
an early and dispiriting ouster will surely cause danny to start the rebuilding process, but even if we win it all i think its time.
Why break up a championship team?
The team has shown its age. even if we win it all we will be a year older, slower and more injury prone. we can not go into next season counting on GPA to stay healthy. Also our tradeable assets will be at their highest value.if perk or even tony or BBD play well in an extended playoff run we could package them with one of the big three/rasheed for younger talent.

I believe that we should look at moving KG to the center spot and bringing in an athletic 4 to pair with him. move either perk and allen(s&t) or rasheed and ? for a complimentary 4 (anthony randolph?imd, hakim warrick).

If KG was up for the transition it could help compensate for his slowing down and extend his effectiveness for a few years. he could leave chasing quick 4's around the perimeter to the kid and concentrate on protecting the basket and orchestrating the D

While I respect rays game and the way he conducts himself, shooting guard is the easiest position to fill. we could sign a young sharpshooter like a morrow for less then he full MLE and plug him itno a lineup rondo, pierce a young athletic 4 KG.

just some thoughts

 

[slamtheking]

I still believe it's less a matter of "could" than "should".

Danny's options are limited when it comes to being able to move the pieces that really should be moved.  Sheed and KG are the primary pieces that should go based on contracts and performance.  Sheed is toxic and KG has an albatross contract.  I don't see either going anywhere until they're at least expiring deals. 

PP would be next on that list but he'll be a Celtic lifer for no other reason than keeping good team PR.  He's an expiring deal for next year but he's more likely to re-up than be moved.

BBD doesn't have an onerous contract but nobody wanted him as an FA last year so I can't see that changing after a year without any progress in his game.

Perk is the one realistically movable piece on the team but he's good, cheap and would be very difficult to replace since he still represents a building block for the future.

Even some of the FA's would be tough to replace since Danny only has MLE money and vet min contracts at his disposal.

Regardless of this year's playoff performance: should this team be broken up?  probably.  could this team be broken up?  not very likely

[shookones99]

Regardless of whether we lose in the finals or the first round, this team will not be broken up just for the sake of being broken up.  Danny will only make a move if he gets a fantastic deal.

He will not, and should not, make a KG/Ray trade for a Kevin Martin or Andre Iguodola type deal.  He has shown his patience before, and he will not get desperate.

The only way Danny breaks this team up is if a tremendous opportunity presents itself and he capitalizes on it.

[PosImpos]

Another Perk offer I would consider is Perk to Detroit for Jason Maxiell and Jonas Jerebko and their 2nd round pick.  I think Maxiell can approximate Perk's offensive production with fewer turnovers and more speed.  The defensive drop-off is fairly significant, but I think Jerebko and a high 2nd would be worth it.  If Jerebko improves his shot, which I think is likely, he'll be a fantastic complement to Rondo and an aging big 3, much better than Posey.






  

Awful, awful trade.  If that's all we can get for Perk we might as well keep him.  I wouldn't do that trade unless the pick included was their lottery pick.

[Who]

There are three choices

#1 -- Keep the team intact until 2012 and try to win as much as possible in the meantime

#2 -- Tweak the team. Keep most of the core but make some important changes to alter the dynamic of the team. For example, shifting Garnett to center and trading Perkins.

#3 -- Blow it up and undergo a major rebuilding process right away. Build around Rondo and possibly Perk + get rid of the Big Three and Sheed within 12 months.

I cannot see any good reason to follow the first option. Even if the Celtics somehow magically won the title this offseason I doubt they do it in a manner that would convince me to keep this team together. In a way that would convince me that they would have a chance to repeat next season without making changes. That the flaws that have shown themselves during the regular season this year will not still be there (plus likely grow) next season.

Ergo, the Celtics should take either the second or third options. I think the third option is the best long term move. The second option is interesting though and I would happy to take a punt on that.

[Chris]

There are three choices

#1 -- Keep the team intact until 2012 and try to win as much as possible in the meantime

#2 -- Tweak the team. Keep most of the core but make some important changes to alter the dynamic of the team. For example, shifting Garnett to center and trading Perkins.

#3 -- Blow it up and undergo a major rebuilding process right away. Build around Rondo and possibly Perk + get rid of the Big Three and Sheed within 12 months.

I cannot see any good reason to follow the first option. Even if the Celtics somehow magically won the title this offseason I doubt they do it in a manner that would convince me to keep this team together. In a way that would convince me that they would have a chance to repeat next season without making changes. That the flaws that have shown themselves during the regular season this year will not still be there (plus likely grow) next season.

Ergo, the Celtics should take either the second or third options. I think the third option is the best long term move. The second option is interesting though and I would happy to take a punt on that.

Agree.  And I think the decision between option 2 and 3 is going to depend almost completely on value.  I think Danny will be making changes over the next 6-8 months (I do not think he will be confined to just the offseason, but could continue shopping many guys through the trade deadline next year), but the extent of the changes will depend on what kind of value he can get in return for his players. 

Danny has shown that he is both patient, as well as realistic.  I have zero doubt that he knows exactly what he has, and is not looking through Green colored glasses at his guys.  But he also will not jeopardize the present, or the future, just to stick to a rigid plan of "blowing it up" or "staying the course".  Everyone is available, and everyone will be shopped.  And every move that is made will be made independently, based on value in versus value out.

[nickagneta]

There are three choices

#1 -- Keep the team intact until 2012 and try to win as much as possible in the meantime

#2 -- Tweak the team. Keep most of the core but make some important changes to alter the dynamic of the team. For example, shifting Garnett to center and trading Perkins.

#3 -- Blow it up and undergo a major rebuilding process right away. Build around Rondo and possibly Perk + get rid of the Big Three and Sheed within 12 months.

I cannot see any good reason to follow the first option. Even if the Celtics somehow magically won the title this offseason I doubt they do it in a manner that would convince me to keep this team together. In a way that would convince me that they would have a chance to repeat next season without making changes. That the flaws that have shown themselves during the regular season this year will not still be there (plus likely grow) next season.

Ergo, the Celtics should take either the second or third options. I think the third option is the best long term move. The second option is interesting though and I would happy to take a punt on that.

Agree.  And I think the decision between option 2 and 3 is going to depend almost completely on value.  I think Danny will be making changes over the next 6-8 months (I do not think he will be confined to just the offseason, but could continue shopping many guys through the trade deadline next year), but the extent of the changes will depend on what kind of value he can get in return for his players. 

Danny has shown that he is both patient, as well as realistic.  I have zero doubt that he knows exactly what he has, and is not looking through Green colored glasses at his guys.  But he also will not jeopardize the present, or the future, just to stick to a rigid plan of "blowing it up" or "staying the course".  Everyone is available, and everyone will be shopped.  And every move that is made will be made independently, based on value in versus value out.

Value is the key in the rebuilding, even if it means taking on at least one contract that wouldn't be ideal. Young with potential to grow and 1st round draft picks would be the key.

Personally I would target guys in the mold of Jason Thompson of Anthony Randolph or Wilson Chandler or Marresse Speights. Guys that are young, have experience, have been effective but have a bunch of room to grow and yet are athletic and can and will run. I'm not saying guys like that are available but if they were, those would be the type of guys I would target.

And 1st round picks, especially in the top 15 of this draft

[GreenFaith1819]

Well, personally I believe the core  and Team still remains, even after this year.

No matter what happens.

We'll be older, but no way we'll have the injury bug like this year. No way.

We won't lose Marquis for 2 months...Glen won't punch anyone else...TA seems to finally be healthy.

Like Nick and a few others mentioned here, the contract of KG makes him untradeable. And even with his injury situation I still believe that he MAY be able to pull off a "Fountain Of Youth" event, somewhat like Zydrunas Ilgauskas - Big Z seemed to have the best time of his career after he got over that last surgery of his. And it was in the latter portion of his career, too.

I do realize that KG has played an awful lot of minutes, but he is still hungry I believe.

I think Paul comes back, no question.

Resign Ray to a decent contract. He may be older, but he is still a potent outside threat even now. Heck, Reggie Miller was potent enough for Danny to try to beg him out of retirement and he was 39.

Rondo will definitely be better. He is not even in his prime yet, which is scary.

I think Perk will come back. He will continues to work and get better, and I'd like to see him get more touches down low. He was averaging 13-14 points for a stretch earlier this year, then he got injured and seemed to trail off some.

And I don't see where we could find another defensive center like him. Bogut won't have continue to have great games against Perk..he'll get better and smarter.

What I'd love to see happen is Danny somehow pulls off a Patented Celtic Move and we somehow land a high pick in the draft this year..or we have someone drop to us.

Right now if the season were to end, we'd have the 18th pick or somewhere near that?

After all, didn't Pierce fall to us back then..in that draft?

I'd like to see us get a young, mobile Big with that pick....I know he is out there.

Bring TA back..maybe explore starting him? Imagine the havoc that a TA / Rondo backcourt would cause defensively?

Overall, I see everyone coming back. But I'd really love for us to get a young, mobile Big in this draft..I think that is the key. Someone who has a defensive mindset, or at least has the Desire to learn it. This youngster may not be an overnight sensation, but he Could grow - look at Perk and Rondo.