Trade Idea: Ray for Richardson/Barbosa

[PLamb]

29 to 32 years old is in the prime of most NBA stars careers

There's nothing wrong with trading Ray for a guy who's 5 years his junior. I think that is reasonable value with expectations for continued play at the same level for 2-3 more years, as would be the case with Richardson

Though I admit I would rather try to get Hill than Barbosa

[wdleehi]

Richardson is already 29 years old. If I'm going to trade Ray, I want to go someone under 27 years old. What's the point of trading for a guy whose game is going to fall off in two years. Besides, it's not like Richardson is a good player right now, anyway. I see him as only a slight upgrade over Allen right now. If the C's trade Ray, they need to get a younger player, someone they can pair with Rondo.

Only if they were rebuilding.


This trade isn't about rebuilding, it is about extending this window another year or two without hurting this years chances.  (I think it would increase the Celtics chances if the got Hill, Barbosa or both along with Richardson)

[jdub1660]

http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=yzfqop4
I know big trades 3 team trade don't happen often, but next month would be the time for it to happen.
Bos - Lopez,Richardson,Barbosa & Nocioni
Sac - House,BBD & Scal
Pho - Ray,(Giddens & Walker)option to buyout both with Shaq's T.E.

We lose 1 of the big 3, BUT we get a solid younger replacement plus a backup PG that can create for himself and others. Lopez gives us length and forces Sheed to play PF and stay closer to the post. Noc would then become our Posey to relieve Pierce and KG(during small ball) and still produce.
Sactown gets freed up from Nocioni's contract but gets a serviceable PF in Davis.
Phoenix gets the luxury of getting a vet scorer on an expiring contract. This makes them wide open for salary next year as they will lost Amare, but gain back possible free agents(Joe Johnson and Bosh?)
Each of our trading teams could be enticed with useless draft picks nonetheless, but our team becomes more suited to win THIS YEAR AND NEXT vs not at all this decade.

[snively]

29 to 32 years old is in the prime of most NBA stars careers

There's nothing wrong with trading Ray for a guy who's 5 years his junior. I think that is reasonable value with expectations for continued play at the same level for 2-3 more years, as would be the case with Richardson

Though I admit I would rather try to get Hill than Barbosa

J Rich is also signed for this year and next year, meaning we won't be on the hook for him at big money when he's past his prime.

I also like Hill better than Barbosa.

I just don't think the Suns would move Hill.  They courted him hard, he's cheap and he's playing well.

Barbosa's had a tough year, but I think he'd add a lot to our bench.  He combines the TA/House skill-sets.  Energetic and built for the open-court with a half-court slashing game like TA, with Eddie's shooting touch.  And his handle isn't as loose as TA's nor is his defense at the 2 as inadequate as Eddie's.

[Mike-Dub]

I would have to say yes.  Richardson and Ray are pretty close to even right now.  Barbosa makes the bench better. 

Throw in JR for Grant Hill, and the Sun cut another 3 million from this years books.  (6 million when including taxes)

Love, I mean love Ray, but would do that deal in a heartbeat!

[wdleehi]

29 to 32 years old is in the prime of most NBA stars careers

There's nothing wrong with trading Ray for a guy who's 5 years his junior. I think that is reasonable value with expectations for continued play at the same level for 2-3 more years, as would be the case with Richardson

Though I admit I would rather try to get Hill than Barbosa

J Rich is also signed for this year and next year, meaning we won't be on the hook for him at big money when he's past his prime.

I also like Hill better than Barbosa.

I just don't think the Suns would move Hill.  They courted him hard, he's cheap and he's playing well.

Barbosa's had a tough year, but I think he'd add a lot to our bench.  He combines the TA/House skill-sets.  Energetic and built for the open-court with a half-court slashing game like TA, with Eddie's shooting touch.  And his handle isn't as loose as TA's nor is his defense at the 2 as inadequate as Eddie's.

If it got them under the tax line, they would.

[rav123]

I am definitely FOR this trade.

[PosImpos]

I am definitely FOR this trade.

Me too.  Ray + House + Scal (I'd actually rather not TA be among them at this point, strangely) for Richardson, Barbosa, and Hill.

I think it improves us in too many ways not to go for it.

If we picked up a PG from the waiver wire (or activated Ty Lue) and maybe a veteran big man for depth (if necessary) I think we'd suddenly look like a much, much better team.

Rondo / Barbosa / Ty Lue or Vet. Pg
Richardson / TA / Marquis
Pierce / Hill / Walker
Garnett / BBD / Shelden
Perkins / Sheed / Vet. Big

Sign me up.  At worst, Richardson is going to give us about the same production Ray is giving us now.  On top of that, though, we'll get a couple of much better bench guys.  Upgrading Eddie House and Scal into Barbosa and Hill sounds fantastic to me.

[wdleehi]

I am definitely FOR this trade.

Me too.  Ray + House + Scal (I'd actually rather not TA be among them at this point, strangely) for Richardson, Barbosa, and Hill.

I think it improves us in too many ways not to go for it.

If we picked up a PG from the waiver wire (or activated Ty Lue) and maybe a veteran big man for depth (if necessary) I think we'd suddenly look like a much, much better team.

Rondo / Barbosa / Ty Lue or Vet. Pg
Richardson / TA / Marquis
Pierce / Hill / Walker
Garnett / BBD / Shelden
Perkins / Sheed / Vet. Big

Sign me up.  At worst, Richardson is going to give us about the same production Ray is giving us now.  On top of that, though, we'll get a couple of much better bench guys.  Upgrading Eddie House and Scal into Barbosa and Hill sounds fantastic to me.

 


I think that is to much money for Phoenix coming back.  If you replace TA and Scali with JR, it works and saves Phoenix about 6 million this year in salary and tax. 



Rondo         Barbosa   House
Richardson    Hill      TA
Pierce        Daniels   Walker
KG            Wallace   Scali
Perk          Davis     Williams  


Now that is a bench that is 14 players deep. 

[PosImpos]

I am definitely FOR this trade.

Me too.  Ray + House + Scal (I'd actually rather not TA be among them at this point, strangely) for Richardson, Barbosa, and Hill.

I think it improves us in too many ways not to go for it.

If we picked up a PG from the waiver wire (or activated Ty Lue) and maybe a veteran big man for depth (if necessary) I think we'd suddenly look like a much, much better team.

Rondo / Barbosa / Ty Lue or Vet. Pg
Richardson / TA / Marquis
Pierce / Hill / Walker
Garnett / BBD / Shelden
Perkins / Sheed / Vet. Big

Sign me up.  At worst, Richardson is going to give us about the same production Ray is giving us now.  On top of that, though, we'll get a couple of much better bench guys.  Upgrading Eddie House and Scal into Barbosa and Hill sounds fantastic to me.

 


I think that is to much money for Phoenix coming back.  If you replace TA and Scali with JR, it works and saves Phoenix about 6 million this year in salary and tax. 



Rondo         Barbosa   House
Richardson    Hill      TA
Pierce        Daniels   Walker
KG            Wallace   Scali
Perk          Davis     Williams  


Now that is a bench that is 14 players deep. 

That works.  Then we can trade House and Scal for a legit back up point guard like Chucky Atkins or Earl Boykins or something, plus maybe a veteran big of some kind.

[wdleehi]

I am definitely FOR this trade.

Me too.  Ray + House + Scal (I'd actually rather not TA be among them at this point, strangely) for Richardson, Barbosa, and Hill.

I think it improves us in too many ways not to go for it.

If we picked up a PG from the waiver wire (or activated Ty Lue) and maybe a veteran big man for depth (if necessary) I think we'd suddenly look like a much, much better team.

Rondo / Barbosa / Ty Lue or Vet. Pg
Richardson / TA / Marquis
Pierce / Hill / Walker
Garnett / BBD / Shelden
Perkins / Sheed / Vet. Big

Sign me up.  At worst, Richardson is going to give us about the same production Ray is giving us now.  On top of that, though, we'll get a couple of much better bench guys.  Upgrading Eddie House and Scal into Barbosa and Hill sounds fantastic to me.

 


I think that is to much money for Phoenix coming back.  If you replace TA and Scali with JR, it works and saves Phoenix about 6 million this year in salary and tax. 



Rondo         Barbosa   House
Richardson    Hill      TA
Pierce        Daniels   Walker
KG            Wallace   Scali
Perk          Davis     Williams  


Now that is a bench that is 14 players deep. 

That works.  Then we can trade House and Scal for a legit back up point guard like Chucky Atkins or Earl Boykins or something, plus maybe a veteran big of some kind.

Team will not have to.  Hill is basically a PG in a SF body.  And along with Daniels and Barbosa, that need is only there if Rondo gets hurt.

[Chris]

While I think Richardson would be an ideal return for Ray, I think Barbosa is in the same category as Hinrich, Posey, and Nocioni.  They are decent players, but make way too much money beyond this season for the C's to take them on as bench players. 

If the C's can find a way to make a deal for Richardson, without having to take back Barbosa's salary, then it makes sense, but Barbosa makes this a non-starter I think.

[PosImpos]

While I think Richardson would be an ideal return for Ray, I think Barbosa is in the same category as Hinrich, Posey, and Nocioni.  They are decent players, but make way too much money beyond this season for the C's to take them on as bench players. 

If the C's can find a way to make a deal for Richardson, without having to take back Barbosa's salary, then it makes sense, but Barbosa makes this a non-starter I think.

I think we're going to have to take on somebody like that if we want to get an ideal return for Ray.  If we can't do that, any trade is probably not even worth it.

The window is probably closed after this year anyway, so why worry about future salary implications, so long as it doesn't totally cripple the team?  Even if KG / Pierce don't start to decline rapidly, at least one or two other teams in the league will probably get significantly better over the summer as we continue to move backwards.  This year is our last chance - and it's a slim one even if we pull off a good trade.

[Chris]

While I think Richardson would be an ideal return for Ray, I think Barbosa is in the same category as Hinrich, Posey, and Nocioni.  They are decent players, but make way too much money beyond this season for the C's to take them on as bench players. 

If the C's can find a way to make a deal for Richardson, without having to take back Barbosa's salary, then it makes sense, but Barbosa makes this a non-starter I think.

I think we're going to have to take on somebody like that if we want to get an ideal return for Ray.  If we can't do that, any trade is probably not even worth it.

The window is probably closed after this year anyway, so why worry about future salary implications, so long as it doesn't totally cripple the team?  Even if KG / Pierce don't start to decline rapidly, at least one or two other teams in the league will probably get significantly better over the summer as we continue to move backwards.  This year is our last chance - and it's a slim one even if we pull off a good trade.

Well, this isn't as much about "future salary implications" as it is about Wyc seeing exactly what you are seeing, and saying "heck no, I am not paying $90 million, plus luxury tax for a team that is not a contender."  I personally believe that Wyc is not willing to continue to pay the luxury tax, if this team is not still a contender, and that Danny will not be allowed to take on bad salaries because of that. 

Danny can look at this team, and see that if he simply stays where he is, and maybe picks up a veteran PG and/or wing defender off the buyout line, they have just as much of a chance to win a title this year, than if they trade Ray.  And then he will have the money coming off the cap next year, and can explore sign and trades and MLE signings to help transition this team into the next decade.  So it really only makes sense to trade Ray if they are able to actually improve the roster next season and beyond, without taking too much off the table this season, or improve the team this season, without hurting them in the future.

I guarantee you, you are not going to see Danny make a deal that raises the payroll next year and beyond, unless they are for very useful players on market-value contracts.