Simmons article on officiating

[fairweatherfan]

http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2/story?page=simmons/090528&sportCat=nba

Interesting read, mostly due to the end, where he calls on bloggers to begin intimately chronicling the officiating mistakes being made in the playoffs.  I've been hoping for awhile now that a player or coach would make this exact appeal - the mainstream media are all feeding directly or indirectly from the NBA trough and don't have the stones or the column inches/airtime to go after the league's biggest problem.  Bloggers don't have these restrictions. 

Simmons isn't a player or coach, but he gets enough attention that hopefully this will get the ball rolling.  I truly think the league needs to be embarrassed across as many media as possible before they'll be spurred to do anything about the officiating problem.

[bdm860]

http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2/story?page=simmons/090528&sportCat=nba

Interesting read, mostly due to the end, where he calls on bloggers to begin intimately chronicling the officiating mistakes being made in the playoffs.  I've been hoping for awhile now that a player or coach would make this exact appeal - the mainstream media are all feeding directly or indirectly from the NBA trough and don't have the stones or the column inches/airtime to go after the league's biggest problem.  Bloggers don't have these restrictions. 

Simmons isn't a player or coach, but he gets enough attention that hopefully this will get the ball rolling.  I truly think the league needs to be embarrassed across as many media as possible before they'll be spurred to do anything about the officiating problem.

Ya but how much bias would there be with that?  We see all the time on this blog people disagreeing with each other over calls.  We see announcers disagreeing with each other too.  Blogger X might think the ref made a bad call, but Blogger Y might think the ref made the right call.  With calls that could go either way, who's to say if the call was actually correct or not.

[cordobes]

Good idea. Now let's see how many clear bad calls, so clear that it's consensual it was indeed a bad call, NBA referees actually make. I predict that Simmons will be extremely disappointed.

[Fafnir]

Good idea. Now let's see how many clear bad calls, so clear that it's consensual it was indeed a bad call, NBA referees actually make. I predict that Simmons will be extremely disappointed.

I do think he has a point with the age of the refs though.

[crownsy]

Good idea. Now let's see how many clear bad calls, so clear that it's consensual it was indeed a bad call, NBA referees actually make. I predict that Simmons will be extremely disappointed.

I do think he has a point with the age of the refs though.

that i do agree on and mention, the game is to fast to expect 60+ year old to keep up with fast break teams. This leads to them often being well out of position on a play.

[fairweatherfan]

Ya but how much bias would there be with that?  We see all the time on this blog people disagreeing with each other over calls.  We see announcers disagreeing with each other too.  Blogger X might think the ref made a bad call, but Blogger Y might think the ref made the right call.  With calls that could go either way, who's to say if the call was actually correct or not.

You mean people tend to disagree on the Internet  ?  Sure, most people just like to gripe about the officiating against their own team, but collectively whatever gets evidence out there that the refs are consistently inconsistent and often flatout wrong will help get the wheels turning toward improving the officiating, which benefits everyone.

Good idea. Now let's see how many clear bad calls, so clear that it's consensual it was indeed a bad call, NBA referees actually make. I predict that Simmons will be extremely disappointed.

Obviously folks like to complain and make ludicrous conspiracy theory-type statements about calls that hurt their preferred team, and dismiss questionable calls that help them, whether they're right or not.  We see plenty of it here, and it's no different anywhere else. 

But do you sincerely believe that NBA officiating is actually good? Throwing out all "they favor team/player X, there's a conspiracy to create such and such an outcome" talk, do you really think the current error rate of NBA referees is low and reasonable?

[cordobes]

Good idea. Now let's see how many clear bad calls, so clear that it's consensual it was indeed a bad call, NBA referees actually make. I predict that Simmons will be extremely disappointed.

Obviously folks like to complain and make ludicrous conspiracy theory-type statements about calls that hurt their preferred team, and dismiss questionable calls that help them, whether they're right or not.  We see plenty of it here, and it's no different anywhere else. 

But do you sincerely believe that NBA officiating is actually good? Throwing out all "they favor team/player X, there's a conspiracy to create such and such an outcome" talk, do you really think the current error rate of NBA referees is low and reasonable?
[/quote]

Yes, I do. I see basketball at many levels: NBA, top European leagues, low level pro-leagues, D-League, NCAA, youth competitions, etc. I think the quality of the NBA officiating compares very favourably relatively to the officiating at every other level - factoring, of course, the different level of difficulty caused by the superior players, the faster game, the increased pressure, etc..

I simply think people have unreasonable expectations when it comes to the officiating of basketball games.

[RebusRankin]

I question having a ref born in 1937 and 1939 in particular. 70 and 72! Should be on a beach.

[MBz]

I actually enjoyed the article quite a bit.  To be honest, he makes a lot of arguments that I use when people ask me why I ask the college game more then the NBA game.

[nickagneta]

Good idea. Now let's see how many clear bad calls, so clear that it's consensual it was indeed a bad call, NBA referees actually make. I predict that Simmons will be extremely disappointed.

Obviously folks like to complain and make ludicrous conspiracy theory-type statements about calls that hurt their preferred team, and dismiss questionable calls that help them, whether they're right or not.  We see plenty of it here, and it's no different anywhere else. 

But do you sincerely believe that NBA officiating is actually good? Throwing out all "they favor team/player X, there's a conspiracy to create such and such an outcome" talk, do you really think the current error rate of NBA referees is low and reasonable?

Yes, I do. I see basketball at many levels: NBA, top European leagues, low level pro-leagues, D-League, NCAA, youth competitions, etc. I think the quality of the NBA officiating compares very favourably relatively to the officiating at every other level - factoring, of course, the different level of difficulty caused by the superior players, the faster game, the increased pressure, etc..

I simply think people have unreasonable expectations when it comes to the officiating of basketball games.

I watch a lot of college ball and I think the officiating in the college game is much better than it is in the NBA. Now, that could be due to a myriad of reasons including

• A slower game that is easier to see.
• Younger overall age of the average ref.
• A constant turnover of talent that precludes players from developing long term relationships or familiarity with refs that could influence an official's impartiality a bit.
• A shorter game that makes it more difficult to make more mistakes in the span of one game giving the perception of a better officiated game.
• A more consistent overall called style of officiating.
• Slightly different rules that make it easier to referee a game.

[crownsy]

Good idea. Now let's see how many clear bad calls, so clear that it's consensual it was indeed a bad call, NBA referees actually make. I predict that Simmons will be extremely disappointed.

Obviously folks like to complain and make ludicrous conspiracy theory-type statements about calls that hurt their preferred team, and dismiss questionable calls that help them, whether they're right or not.  We see plenty of it here, and it's no different anywhere else. 

But do you sincerely believe that NBA officiating is actually good? Throwing out all "they favor team/player X, there's a conspiracy to create such and such an outcome" talk, do you really think the current error rate of NBA referees is low and reasonable?

Yes, I do. I see basketball at many levels: NBA, top European leagues, low level pro-leagues, D-League, NCAA, youth competitions, etc. I think the quality of the NBA officiating compares very favourably relatively to the officiating at every other level - factoring, of course, the different level of difficulty caused by the superior players, the faster game, the increased pressure, etc..

I simply think people have unreasonable expectations when it comes to the officiating of basketball games.
[/quote]

I think i would agree if ten or so noticeably bad/ or to old refs were removed and replaced with new blood.

I really think its a specific few bad officials who ruin the overall image of the officiating crews.

[bdm860]

I simply think people have unreasonable expectations when it comes to the officiating of basketball games.

Definitely agree with this.

Refs have no replays (except for a very few instances), each ref can only see things from their angel, which may or may not be at least partially blocked by a 6'9" 250lb player, and the game moves 100 miles per hour.

How many times have any one of us watched a game, saw something we thought was or wasn't a foul, then saw 5 different slow motion replays and realized our initial thought was wrong?  The refs only get that initial view, not the 5 different slow motion replays we get to make a decision.  They get one view in real time, and that one view might have 10 different moving parts in it.

After watching slow motion replays from different angels, ya I think the refs make a lot of bad calls, but I think it's extremely hard given the circumstances to have a great success rate in that profession.

Some things can definitely be fixed and improved on, no doubt, but overall I feel most people have unreasonable expectations of refs.

I think Nick made some good points as to why college reffing is different too.

[mkogav]

Good idea. Now let's see how many clear bad calls, so clear that it's consensual it was indeed a bad call, NBA referees actually make. I predict that Simmons will be extremely disappointed.

I do think he has a point with the age of the refs though.

It's one of better points, along with the ref-team matchups.

Mk

[cordobes]

I do think he has a point with the age of the refs though.

It's one of better points, along with the ref-team matchups.

Mk

I question having a ref born in 1937 and 1939 in particular. 70 and 72! Should be on a beach.

that i do agree on and mention, the game is to fast to expect 60+ year old to keep up with fast break teams. This leads to them often being well out of position on a play.

Well, Churchill and Reagan lead the free world to wins over the biggest and most scary threats to the existence of our civilization - even to the survival of the mankind. Churchill was 71 years old when the Nazis surrendered and Reagan was 78 when the Berlin Wall finally fell.

Of course, officiating a basketball game is an activity of different nature than governing, but do not overlook the ability of older people - at least some of them - to stay in excellent physical and mental shape well into their 70s - heck, some of them can run a marathon in 3 hours, how many of us can actually do that? I can't. And officiating a basketball game isn't really that demanding from a physical standpoint. Have you ever noticed Nies or Bavetta lagging a play or out of position or out of breath? I never did.

Therefore, I have to assume that they pass the physical and athletic tests that the league asks and, in that case, I see no reason to impose a formal age limit. If they can officiate, why does age matter?

Anyway, this can become a false question because:

1) Nies has probably called it a career. I think this was his last season as a NBA referee - has he officiated any playoff game so far? I don't think so, although I may have missed him. I'm fairly certain you won't see Nies on the pitch next season.

2) On Bavetta, I think we're living an historic moment: I have reasons to believe that Dick is finally being phased out by the NBA. In the last 15 years or so, Dick Bavetta was one of the 4 NBA referees to be crew chief in the Finals. This season, he hasn't been a crew chief since the 1st round. And so far in the Conference Finals he only has worked in a game, with Steve Javie being the crew chief. So, even if this isn't the last season of Bavetta as a NBA referee, it's getting close.

On a related note, I'd like to point out that the NBA has been working towards promoting some young turks in their officiating rankings. Analysing the nominations for these playoffs, it's clear that the Wunderlich/Foster/McCutchen troika is climbing up fast in the ranks. In fact, I wouldn't be surprised to see one of them being a crew chief in the Finals, in spite of their lack of experience at that level (well, not Wunderlich any more, after that debacle with the Wright/Melo non-call).

So, even though you don't hear a lot about it, the NBA is actually going through a deep process of renewing their officiating staff right now in these playoffs, substituting some older guys with new blood as their "elite officials".

Edit: I'm making a mental note to get back to this thread with more thoughts on the Simmons article and the officiating of basketball games (Nick makes some fine points I'd like to comment as well), but for now I've run out of time.

[RebusRankin]

You can't compare Churchill and Reagan to NBA refs. Totally different jobs. I wouldn't be questioning a 70 or 72 year old who was evaluating refs because there is no physical component in that. I do question somebody reffing players young enough to be their grandkids.