Rondo and Dwight Howard

[Fafnir]

You also have to consider that Dwight Howard is personable and has a nice media personality. Rondo's a mystery, so I'm sure for the media, everything about him can be fit into a one-page fact sheet.

Also, Dwight Howard not having an offensive game isn't going to kill the Magic. I agree with CoachBo - Rondo not having an offensive game hurts everybody on that team. The most obvious when you're watching is when they're double teaming off of him and Rondo stands in one place dribbling the ball.

You're wrong about Howard's flaws not "killing" his team. If you're going to be a championship team built around a Center in today's NBA, he has to be able to get the team some high percentage shots out of the post game.

Dwight doesn't have a reliable post game when he can't just muscule the other teams Center, he doesn't pass well enough to create layups out of the post to cutters, and he doesn't shoot well enough to have a face up game.

True, but I feel that Dwight's defense and rebounding more than makes up for his offense... he gives his team so many offensive opportunities in that way.

I feel the same about Rondo most nights. His rebounding, passing, and ball pressure makes up for his flaws. Even when he's having a poor game. He's not as consistent as Howard yet though.

[pengaloo]

You also have to consider that Dwight Howard is personable and has a nice media personality. Rondo's a mystery, so I'm sure for the media, everything about him can be fit into a one-page fact sheet.

Also, Dwight Howard not having an offensive game isn't going to kill the Magic. I agree with CoachBo - Rondo not having an offensive game hurts everybody on that team. The most obvious when you're watching is when they're double teaming off of him and Rondo stands in one place dribbling the ball.

You're wrong about Howard's flaws not "killing" his team. If you're going to be a championship team built around a Center in today's NBA, he has to be able to get the team some high percentage shots out of the post game.

Dwight doesn't have a reliable post game when he can't just muscule the other teams Center, he doesn't pass well enough to create layups out of the post to cutters, and he doesn't shoot well enough to have a face up game.

True, but I feel that Dwight's defense and rebounding more than makes up for his offense... he gives his team so many offensive opportunities in that way.

I feel the same about Rondo most nights. His rebounding, passing, and ball pressure makes up for his flaws. Even when he's having a poor game. He's not as consistent as Howard yet though.

yeah, it's the consistency factor. I can't wait until he gets there..

[youcanthandlethetruth113]

I like Dwight Howard. He is an excellent player. However, why is the media so willing to point out the deficiencies in Rondo's game, yet no one comments how limited Howard's offensive game is? Sure Rondo is not the best shooter in the world, but he is light years ahead of where he was 2-3 years ago. Even last night, Reggie Miller (a nitwit by the way, give me back mike and tommy) is saying what Rondo needs to go to take his game to the next level, to become an elite player. Did he watch the Chicago series?

Meanwhile, Dwight Howard has a dunk shot and a semi-reliable hook shot to his game. Does anyone notice how limited his offensive game is? And he has roughly the same amount of nba experience as rondo, so youth cannot be mentioned.

All I am saying is that it seems to be the in thing to do to talk about what Rondo cannot do, instead of focusing on the tons of things he does well. Is it simply because  his game, for a 6-1 guy, is somewhat unconventional?

Actually, I think plenty of shots were taken at Howard and his lack of game when various members of the media said that Howard was not the key to success for the Magic.

[BballTim]

Also, Dwight Howard not having an offensive game isn't going to kill the Magic. I agree with CoachBo - Rondo not having an offensive game hurts everybody on that team. The most obvious when you're watching is when they're double teaming off of him and Rondo stands in one place dribbling the ball.

  Orlando's built their team around Howard. They were 2nd in the league in 3 point attempts (slightly behind the Knicks, but almost 25% more than the 3rd place team in the league). The outside shots should open up the middle for Howard, and when he gets double-teamed that leaves an outside shooter open. You don't think that the fact that Dwight can't score well enough to draw a double team isn't hurting the Magic?

[LarBrd33]

Dwight is an unbelievable physical specimen.  Very powerful, quick, and crazy athletic.  There is a reason he dominates on the boards and dominates most teams offensively.  But I still say that Perk is the key to the series.  Perk can match him with size and strength.   Perk isn't going to shut him down every single game, but more often than not I've seen Dwight fail when he tries to post up on his physical peer.  His offensive game might be limited, but it doesn't really matter against the majority of teams.   We're lucky to have an above average defender at center who is the size of Perk.  The media isn't making a big enough deal about this.  Dwight struggles against Perk.  It's a fact.  Just like Pierce struggles against some players (Artest, for example)... Superman struggles against Perk.  Doesn't seem like anyone wants to admit it.   That doesn't take anything away from Superman... it just means we happen to have a player who limits him a bit.

[crownsy]

Dwight is an unbelievable physical specimen.  Very powerful, quick, and crazy athletic.  There is a reason he dominates on the boards and dominates most teams offensively.  But I still say that Perk is the key to the series.  Perk can match him with size and strength.   Perk isn't going to shut him down every single game, but more often than not I've seen Dwight fail when he tries to post up on his physical peer.  His offensive game might be limited, but it doesn't really matter against the majority of teams.   We're lucky to have an above average defender at center who is the size of Perk.  The media isn't making a big enough deal about this.  Dwight struggles against Perk.  It's a fact.

agreed 100%, and this makes me even more fascinated that SVG doesn't pound the ball to Howard early and late to try to get perk in foul trouble.

when perk is out, they abuse us because as well as baby has been playing howard, he's just to small. yet they constantly go away from howard, which not only lets perk avoid fouls, but allows him to help when hedo and lewis drive. it makes no sense from a strategy standpoint.

Works for me as a C's fan though 

[LarBrd33]

Dwight is an unbelievable physical specimen.  Very powerful, quick, and crazy athletic.  There is a reason he dominates on the boards and dominates most teams offensively.  But I still say that Perk is the key to the series.  Perk can match him with size and strength.   Perk isn't going to shut him down every single game, but more often than not I've seen Dwight fail when he tries to post up on his physical peer.  His offensive game might be limited, but it doesn't really matter against the majority of teams.   We're lucky to have an above average defender at center who is the size of Perk.  The media isn't making a big enough deal about this.  Dwight struggles against Perk.  It's a fact.

agreed 100%, and this makes me even more fascinated that SVG doesn't pound the ball to Howard early and late to try to get perk in foul trouble.

when perk is out, they abuse us because as well as baby has been playing howard, he's just to small. yet they constantly go away from howard, it makes no sense from a strategy standpoint.

Works for me as a C's fan though 

I think a lot of Celtics fans must feel Dwight is overrated, but that's just because I figure the only time they EVER watch Dwight is in the dunk contest, all-star game and... against the Celtics.   If all they ever see is Dwight struggling against Perk, I don't blame them for thinking he's "overrated".  He averaged 16.8 points against us in the regular season (49% shooting) and is averaging 16 points against us in 5 playoff games (54% shooting).  He seems pretty "human".  But they are ignoring the fact that he pretty much tears up the rest of the league.  There is a reason why he was able to average 24 points on 68% shooting against Philly and there is a reason why he is slightly limited against Boston.   Perk is a major part of that.

Has anyone at ESPN acknowledged this yet?  We always hear about how Battier and Artest could potentially slow down Kobe... or about how guys like Pierce and Posey could cause problems for LeBron... but has anyone acknowledged yet that Superman can't back down someone his own size?  Dwight's a superstar and isn't going to be stopped every game... but at this point it's a fact that he struggles against Perk.

[Redz]

Dwight is an unbelievable physical specimen.  Very powerful, quick, and crazy athletic.  There is a reason he dominates on the boards and dominates most teams offensively.  But I still say that Perk is the key to the series.  Perk can match him with size and strength.   Perk isn't going to shut him down every single game, but more often than not I've seen Dwight fail when he tries to post up on his physical peer.  His offensive game might be limited, but it doesn't really matter against the majority of teams.   We're lucky to have an above average defender at center who is the size of Perk.  The media isn't making a big enough deal about this.  Dwight struggles against Perk.  It's a fact.

agreed 100%, and this makes me even more fascinated that SVG doesn't pound the ball to Howard early and late to try to get perk in foul trouble.

when perk is out, they abuse us because as well as baby has been playing howard, he's just to small. yet they constantly go away from howard, it makes no sense from a strategy standpoint.

Works for me as a C's fan though 

I think a lot of Celtics fans must feel Dwight is overrated, but that's just because I figure the only time they EVER watch Dwight is in the dunk contest, all-star game and... against the Celtics.   If all they ever see is Dwight struggling against Perk, I don't blame them for thinking he's "overrated".  He averaged 16.8 points against us in the regular season (49% shooting) and is averaging 16 points against us in 5 playoff games (54% shooting).  He seems pretty "human".  But they are ignoring the fact that he pretty much tears up the rest of the league.  There is a reason why he was able to average 24 points on 68% shooting against Philly and there is a reason why he is slightly limited against Boston.   Perk is a major part of that.

Has anyone at ESPN acknowledged this yet?  We always hear about how Battier and Artest could potentially slow down Kobe... or about how guys like Pierce and Posey could cause problems for LeBron... but has anyone acknowledged yet that Superman can't back down someone his own size?  Dwight's a superstar and isn't going to be stopped every game... but at this point it's a fact that he struggles against Perk.

all i hear on TNT is how the Magic need to go to him more because he's their best player.  Nothing about how Perk takes away what Howard's trying to do.

[BballTim]

Meanwhile, Dwight Howard has a dunk shot and a semi-reliable hook shot to his game. Does anyone notice how limited his offensive game is? And he has roughly the same amount of nba experience as rondo, so youth cannot be mentioned.

  Actually Howard has played more than twice the nba minutes that Rondo has. Aside from Dunks his inside game is no better than Perk's if it's even as good.

[LarBrd33]

Meanwhile, Dwight Howard has a dunk shot and a semi-reliable hook shot to his game. Does anyone notice how limited his offensive game is? And he has roughly the same amount of nba experience as rondo, so youth cannot be mentioned.

  Actually Howard has played more than twice the nba minutes that Rondo has. Aside from Dunks his inside game is no better than Perk's if it's even as good.

Pretty true.  If you take Perk and add Dwight's athleticism, agility, quickness and explosiveness... Perk would dominant too.    Perk is like Dwight if Dwight had weights around his ankles.

I'm not taking anything away from Dwight.  He's the most dominant big man in the game today.  And that makes what Perk is doing even more impressive.   Forget all the bulletpoints on the front page... just dedicate an entire article to the fact that Perk is the MAIN reason we are even competing in this series.  Without Perk, we probably have to triple team Dwight with Scal, Baby and Pierce... and their shooters have wide-open look after wide-open look (which is pretty much how it's gone regardless... but I mean... it would be even EASIER for them).  There is a reason Van Gundy stopped going to Dwight in the game last night... he wasn't having success posting up Perk.

[crownsy]

Meanwhile, Dwight Howard has a dunk shot and a semi-reliable hook shot to his game. Does anyone notice how limited his offensive game is? And he has roughly the same amount of nba experience as rondo, so youth cannot be mentioned.

  Actually Howard has played more than twice the nba minutes that Rondo has. Aside from Dunks his inside game is no better than Perk's if it's even as good.

Pretty true.  If you take Perk and add Dwight's athleticism, agility, quickness and explosiveness... Perk would dominant too.    Perk is like Dwight if Dwight had weights around his ankles.

I'm not taking anything away from Dwight.  He's the most dominant big man in the game today.  And that makes what Perk is doing even more impressive.   Forget all the bulletpoints on the front page... just dedicate an entire article to the fact that Perk is the MAIN reason we are even competing in this series.  Without Perk, we probably have to triple team Dwight with Scal, Baby and Pierce... and their shooters have wide-open look after wide-open look (which is pretty much how it's gone regardless... but I mean... it would be even EASIER for them).  There is a reason Van Gundy stopped going to Dwight in the game last night... he wasn't having success posting up Perk.

I agree thats why SVG went away from the matchup, btu thats still atrocious coaching. You have to try to get howard going and perk in foul trouble, espically when they had the lead and you know the celtics huge glaring weakness is front court depth behind perk.

 If perk goes out for foul trouble (or heck, even if he re-agrevates that shoulder) Then your offense goes back into overdrive as baby needs help to double howard with perk gone, and you win this game easily.

Instead he let the fact that perk is a great defender on howard panic him into throwing it around the perimiter with 4 celtics players able to single cover shooters like reddick, alston, and hedo who need space to shoot thier jumpshot, and lewis couldn't carry the load, and they took horrid shot after horrid shot.

it was a panic move, shaq was right.

[LarBrd33]

Meanwhile, Dwight Howard has a dunk shot and a semi-reliable hook shot to his game. Does anyone notice how limited his offensive game is? And he has roughly the same amount of nba experience as rondo, so youth cannot be mentioned.

  Actually Howard has played more than twice the nba minutes that Rondo has. Aside from Dunks his inside game is no better than Perk's if it's even as good.

Pretty true.  If you take Perk and add Dwight's athleticism, agility, quickness and explosiveness... Perk would dominant too.    Perk is like Dwight if Dwight had weights around his ankles.

I'm not taking anything away from Dwight.  He's the most dominant big man in the game today.  And that makes what Perk is doing even more impressive.   Forget all the bulletpoints on the front page... just dedicate an entire article to the fact that Perk is the MAIN reason we are even competing in this series.  Without Perk, we probably have to triple team Dwight with Scal, Baby and Pierce... and their shooters have wide-open look after wide-open look (which is pretty much how it's gone regardless... but I mean... it would be even EASIER for them).  There is a reason Van Gundy stopped going to Dwight in the game last night... he wasn't having success posting up Perk.

I agree thats why SVG went away from the matchup, btu thats still atrocious coaching. You have to try to get howard going and perk in foul trouble, espically when they had the lead and you know the celtics huge glaring weakness is front court depth behind perk.

 If perk goes out for foul trouble (or heck, even if he re-agrevates that shoulder) Then your offense goes back into overdrive as baby needs help to double howard with perk gone, and you win this game easily.

Instead he let the fact that perk is a great defender on howard panic him into throwing it around the perimiter with 4 celtics players able to single cover shooters like reddick, alston, and hedo who need space to shoot thier jumpshot, and lewis couldn't carry the load, and they took horrid shot after horrid shot.

it was a panic move, shaq was right.

they could attack Perk early and try to get our bigs in foul trouble, but it seemed that every time Dwight tried to post up perk, it resulted in a bad shot, blocked shot or turnover.   If Orlando isn't getting the calls, maybe it doesn't make sense to keep trying.   

However, it seems that if they just doubled the offensive responsibility of Rashard Lewis, he'd probably destroy us.  We have no answer for Lewis in this series.  That might be a bigger failure for Van Gundy.

[BballTim]

Meanwhile, Dwight Howard has a dunk shot and a semi-reliable hook shot to his game. Does anyone notice how limited his offensive game is? And he has roughly the same amount of nba experience as rondo, so youth cannot be mentioned.

  Actually Howard has played more than twice the nba minutes that Rondo has. Aside from Dunks his inside game is no better than Perk's if it's even as good.

Pretty true.  If you take Perk and add Dwight's athleticism, agility, quickness and explosiveness... Perk would dominant too.    Perk is like Dwight if Dwight had weights around his ankles.

I'm not taking anything away from Dwight.  He's the most dominant big man in the game today.  And that makes what Perk is doing even more impressive.   Forget all the bulletpoints on the front page... just dedicate an entire article to the fact that Perk is the MAIN reason we are even competing in this series.  Without Perk, we probably have to triple team Dwight with Scal, Baby and Pierce... and their shooters have wide-open look after wide-open look (which is pretty much how it's gone regardless... but I mean... it would be even EASIER for them).  There is a reason Van Gundy stopped going to Dwight in the game last night... he wasn't having success posting up Perk.

I agree thats why SVG went away from the matchup, btu thats still atrocious coaching. You have to try to get howard going and perk in foul trouble, espically when they had the lead and you know the celtics huge glaring weakness is front court depth behind perk.

 If perk goes out for foul trouble (or heck, even if he re-agrevates that shoulder) Then your offense goes back into overdrive as baby needs help to double howard with perk gone, and you win this game easily.

Instead he let the fact that perk is a great defender on howard panic him into throwing it around the perimiter with 4 celtics players able to single cover shooters like reddick, alston, and hedo who need space to shoot thier jumpshot, and lewis couldn't carry the load, and they took horrid shot after horrid shot.

it was a panic move, shaq was right.

they could attack Perk early and try to get our bigs in foul trouble, but it seemed that every time Dwight tried to post up perk, it resulted in a bad shot, blocked shot or turnover.   If Orlando isn't getting the calls, maybe it doesn't make sense to keep trying.   

However, it seems that if they just doubled the offensive responsibility of Rashard Lewis, he'd probably destroy us.  We have no answer for Lewis in this series.  That might be a bigger failure for Van Gundy.

  Lewis is shooting under 50% against us in the playoffs. It seems like it should be higher but he's really only had 2 good offensive games against us.

[crownsy]

Dwight is an unbelievable physical specimen.  Very powerful, quick, and crazy athletic.  There is a reason he dominates on the boards and dominates most teams offensively.  But I still say that Perk is the key to the series.  Perk can match him with size and strength.   Perk isn't going to shut him down every single game, but more often than not I've seen Dwight fail when he tries to post up on his physical peer.  His offensive game might be limited, but it doesn't really matter against the majority of teams.   We're lucky to have an above average defender at center who is the size of Perk.  The media isn't making a big enough deal about this.  Dwight struggles against Perk.  It's a fact.

agreed 100%, and this makes me even more fascinated that SVG doesn't pound the ball to Howard early and late to try to get perk in foul trouble.

when perk is out, they abuse us because as well as baby has been playing howard, he's just to small. yet they constantly go away from howard, it makes no sense from a strategy standpoint.

Works for me as a C's fan though 

I think a lot of Celtics fans must feel Dwight is overrated, but that's just because I figure the only time they EVER watch Dwight is in the dunk contest, all-star game and... against the Celtics.   If all they ever see is Dwight struggling against Perk, I don't blame them for thinking he's "overrated".  He averaged 16.8 points against us in the regular season (49% shooting) and is averaging 16 points against us in 5 playoff games (54% shooting).  He seems pretty "human".  But they are ignoring the fact that he pretty much tears up the rest of the league.  There is a reason why he was able to average 24 points on 68% shooting against Philly and there is a reason why he is slightly limited against Boston.   Perk is a major part of that.

Has anyone at ESPN acknowledged this yet?  We always hear about how Battier and Artest could potentially slow down Kobe... or about how guys like Pierce and Posey could cause problems for LeBron... but has anyone acknowledged yet that Superman can't back down someone his own size?  Dwight's a superstar and isn't going to be stopped every game... but at this point it's a fact that he struggles against Perk.

but what about the 1st, 2nd and 3rd when they had a double digit lead? you can't tell me that they even tried to establish the post game, they had 10 touches all game. That's way to few, and it was due to panic.

They had double digit leads for most of the game, yet howard saw 10 post touches while they tried iso's. your telling me if they take just 10-15 more possesions to run that left side two man post game with lewis and howard, they don't controlt he game better. that is alot more threating to me than not pushing the ball up and standing around until lewis or hedo hosts up a shot.