Author Topic: Top PG Debate  (Read 7066 times)

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Re: Top PG Debate
« Reply #15 on: April 24, 2009, 06:30:29 PM »

Offline KCattheStripe

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another harsh and maybe unfair reality is evidenced and illustrated by the following:

stockton: great player but didn't win championship
malone: great player but didn't win championship
barkley: great player but didn't win championship
ewing: great player but didn't win championship
drexler: great player and won championship

I would argue that Rondo had as much pressure being the PG for an NBA champion and being accepted by 3 HOF as CP does in making his teammates better...West, Chandler and Peja are not HOF but they are not slouches either...

plus, I still think Rondo has huge upside still...he is just starting to hit his jumper...

Also remember with these players, they all played 10 plus years. Paul and Williams have played for five. Little premature to discount them just because they haven't yet won a championship.

Re: Top PG Debate
« Reply #16 on: April 24, 2009, 07:01:53 PM »

Offline Chief

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CP3 is very good but Billups is schooling him so far in their series.
Once you are labeled 'the best' you want to stay up there, and you can't do it by loafing around.
 
Larry Bird

Re: Top PG Debate
« Reply #17 on: April 24, 2009, 07:57:41 PM »

Offline greg683x

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Agree with 2short - it's Paul, then it's everyone else jockeying for silver.  Rondo won a championship, but he was godawful for most of the Finals (he played virtually no part in the Game 4 comeback, for example).

  This might not be common knowledge but Rondo sprained his ankle in the middle of game 3. This accounts for much of his godawful play. He was great in game 2, he was great in game 6, and his game 1 (15 points, 5 boards, 7 assists) wasn't bad either.

Game 2, Game6, and Game 1, were all home games, I do realize that Rondo sprained his ankle in game 3, but in the playoffs last year, Rondo consistently disappeared on the road, which was a large part of our bad play away from home.  I dont want to rain on the parade for Rondo here, but if were going to use his championship as ammunition to boost his rank, than this needs to be pointed out as well.  It was Rondo's first playoffs and like any young player he struggled mightily on the road, so we cant act like we was the center piece of our championship like Chris Paul would be for NO and Williams would be for Utah.

This year in the playoffs though, Rondo has been the best player on the floor for the Celtics in all three games, and he had a big game last night on the road in Chicago.  So the situation is a little different this year in the playoffs as far as his place on the team, but it has only been 3 games, Im anxiously hoping he can keep it up and us winning as well.
Greg

Re: Top PG Debate
« Reply #18 on: April 24, 2009, 08:36:12 PM »

Offline PosImpos

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I think Devin Harris doesn't get enough credit.  He's in the top 3 PGs for PER.

I think the best PGs right now are Chris Paul and Deron Williams, and then the tier below them is Tony Parker and Devin Harris, and then you have Billups, Rose, Rondo etc.
Never forget the Champs of '08, or the gutsy warriors of '10.

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Re: Top PG Debate
« Reply #19 on: April 24, 2009, 09:33:11 PM »

Offline Chief

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I think Devin Harris doesn't get enough credit.  He's in the top 3 PGs for PER.

I think the best PGs right now are Chris Paul and Deron Williams, and then the tier below them is Tony Parker and Devin Harris, and then you have Billups, Rose, Rondo etc.

Seemed like Rondo killed Harris, everytime they met this year. :-\
Once you are labeled 'the best' you want to stay up there, and you can't do it by loafing around.
 
Larry Bird

Re: Top PG Debate
« Reply #20 on: April 24, 2009, 09:47:10 PM »

Offline jackson_34

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I think Devin Harris doesn't get enough credit.  He's in the top 3 PGs for PER.

True this, obviously Harris is a fantastic offensive threat, but Rondo just does everything at such a fantastic rate. Just behind parker in fg% for a PG, amazing rebounder for his position, great vision and fudamentally brilliant passing, best defensive PG in the league, and probably the quickest aswell. I'd have to put rondo in front of harris because of this.

Re: Top PG Debate
« Reply #21 on: April 25, 2009, 01:08:03 AM »

Offline PosImpos

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Seemed like Rondo killed Harris, everytime they met this year. :-\

Though that may be true, it doesn't necessarily mean Devin Harris isn't a better all around point guard.  That would probably be especially obvious if you put him on a better team with a more serious, defensive focus.
Never forget the Champs of '08, or the gutsy warriors of '10.

"I know you all wanna win, but you gotta do it TOGETHER!"
- Doc Rivers

Re: Top PG Debate
« Reply #22 on: April 25, 2009, 01:30:04 AM »

Offline Atzar

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Seemed like Rondo killed Harris, everytime they met this year. :-\

Though that may be true, it doesn't necessarily mean Devin Harris isn't a better all around point guard.  That would probably be especially obvious if you put him on a better team with a more serious, defensive focus.

Well, Rondo was better than Harris in practically every statistical category except for points and FT%.  Rondo shot a higher percentage from the floor, averaged more steals, less turnovers, and more assists and rebounds - all of this on less minutes.  He was also more durable, for what it's worth.  Harris can score, but Rondo makes everybody on his team better - I haven't really seen that quality in Harris.

Re: Top PG Debate
« Reply #23 on: April 25, 2009, 05:17:26 AM »

Offline greenwise

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Well, Rondo is not worse than any of those mentioned and he is still improving. He could be the best PG in a couple years ;)

Re: Top PG Debate
« Reply #24 on: April 25, 2009, 09:24:10 AM »

Offline BballTim

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Agree with 2short - it's Paul, then it's everyone else jockeying for silver.  Rondo won a championship, but he was godawful for most of the Finals (he played virtually no part in the Game 4 comeback, for example).

  This might not be common knowledge but Rondo sprained his ankle in the middle of game 3. This accounts for much of his godawful play. He was great in game 2, he was great in game 6, and his game 1 (15 points, 5 boards, 7 assists) wasn't bad either.

Game 2, Game6, and Game 1, were all home games, I do realize that Rondo sprained his ankle in game 3, but in the playoffs last year, Rondo consistently disappeared on the road, which was a large part of our bad play away from home.  I dont want to rain on the parade for Rondo here, but if were going to use his championship as ammunition to boost his rank, than this needs to be pointed out as well.  It was Rondo's first playoffs and like any young player he struggled mightily on the road, so we cant act like we was the center piece of our championship like Chris Paul would be for NO and Williams would be for Utah.

This year in the playoffs though, Rondo has been the best player on the floor for the Celtics in all three games, and he had a big game last night on the road in Chicago.  So the situation is a little different this year in the playoffs as far as his place on the team, but it has only been 3 games, Im anxiously hoping he can keep it up and us winning as well.

  Sure Rondo struggled on the road last year, most of the team did. But does that mean the fact that he played poorly in LA was unrelated to the fact that he was hobbling around on the court and playing at about 50%?

Re: Top PG Debate
« Reply #25 on: April 25, 2009, 09:29:14 AM »

Offline Fafnir

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Agree with 2short - it's Paul, then it's everyone else jockeying for silver.  Rondo won a championship, but he was godawful for most of the Finals (he played virtually no part in the Game 4 comeback, for example).

  This might not be common knowledge but Rondo sprained his ankle in the middle of game 3. This accounts for much of his godawful play. He was great in game 2, he was great in game 6, and his game 1 (15 points, 5 boards, 7 assists) wasn't bad either.

Game 2, Game6, and Game 1, were all home games, I do realize that Rondo sprained his ankle in game 3, but in the playoffs last year, Rondo consistently disappeared on the road, which was a large part of our bad play away from home.  I dont want to rain on the parade for Rondo here, but if were going to use his championship as ammunition to boost his rank, than this needs to be pointed out as well.  It was Rondo's first playoffs and like any young player he struggled mightily on the road, so we cant act like we was the center piece of our championship like Chris Paul would be for NO and Williams would be for Utah.

This year in the playoffs though, Rondo has been the best player on the floor for the Celtics in all three games, and he had a big game last night on the road in Chicago.  So the situation is a little different this year in the playoffs as far as his place on the team, but it has only been 3 games, Im anxiously hoping he can keep it up and us winning as well.

  Sure Rondo struggled on the road last year, most of the team did. But does that mean the fact that he played poorly in LA was unrelated to the fact that he was hobbling around on the court and playing at about 50%?
Especially given that Kobe was guarded him. If Rondo doesn't have his full jets Kobe can just eat his lunch entirely.

Rondo played poorly in many playoff games, that is a large reason why we had to play two long and nasty series against Cleveland/Atlanta. That is okay, playoff debuts are tough. He was money in game 6 to get 17 though.

He's played a whole lot better this year, and I'm hoping will fully come into his own this post-season no matter how far we advance.

Re: Top PG Debate
« Reply #26 on: April 25, 2009, 11:05:17 AM »

Offline greg683x

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Agree with 2short - it's Paul, then it's everyone else jockeying for silver.  Rondo won a championship, but he was godawful for most of the Finals (he played virtually no part in the Game 4 comeback, for example).

  This might not be common knowledge but Rondo sprained his ankle in the middle of game 3. This accounts for much of his godawful play. He was great in game 2, he was great in game 6, and his game 1 (15 points, 5 boards, 7 assists) wasn't bad either.

Game 2, Game6, and Game 1, were all home games, I do realize that Rondo sprained his ankle in game 3, but in the playoffs last year, Rondo consistently disappeared on the road, which was a large part of our bad play away from home.  I dont want to rain on the parade for Rondo here, but if were going to use his championship as ammunition to boost his rank, than this needs to be pointed out as well.  It was Rondo's first playoffs and like any young player he struggled mightily on the road, so we cant act like we was the center piece of our championship like Chris Paul would be for NO and Williams would be for Utah.

This year in the playoffs though, Rondo has been the best player on the floor for the Celtics in all three games, and he had a big game last night on the road in Chicago.  So the situation is a little different this year in the playoffs as far as his place on the team, but it has only been 3 games, Im anxiously hoping he can keep it up and us winning as well.

  Sure Rondo struggled on the road last year, most of the team did. But does that mean the fact that he played poorly in LA was unrelated to the fact that he was hobbling around on the court and playing at about 50%?

Im not saying his bad ankle had nothing to do with his bad play, all Im saying is given his play on the road in all the other playoff games we cant act like he would have been dominant in those games had he been 100%.
Greg

Re: Top PG Debate
« Reply #27 on: April 25, 2009, 11:16:14 AM »

Offline twistedrico

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I say Rondo is second behind CP. 

Re: Top PG Debate
« Reply #28 on: April 25, 2009, 11:18:56 AM »

Offline BballTim

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Agree with 2short - it's Paul, then it's everyone else jockeying for silver.  Rondo won a championship, but he was godawful for most of the Finals (he played virtually no part in the Game 4 comeback, for example).

  This might not be common knowledge but Rondo sprained his ankle in the middle of game 3. This accounts for much of his godawful play. He was great in game 2, he was great in game 6, and his game 1 (15 points, 5 boards, 7 assists) wasn't bad either.

Game 2, Game6, and Game 1, were all home games, I do realize that Rondo sprained his ankle in game 3, but in the playoffs last year, Rondo consistently disappeared on the road, which was a large part of our bad play away from home.  I dont want to rain on the parade for Rondo here, but if were going to use his championship as ammunition to boost his rank, than this needs to be pointed out as well.  It was Rondo's first playoffs and like any young player he struggled mightily on the road, so we cant act like we was the center piece of our championship like Chris Paul would be for NO and Williams would be for Utah.

This year in the playoffs though, Rondo has been the best player on the floor for the Celtics in all three games, and he had a big game last night on the road in Chicago.  So the situation is a little different this year in the playoffs as far as his place on the team, but it has only been 3 games, Im anxiously hoping he can keep it up and us winning as well.

  Sure Rondo struggled on the road last year, most of the team did. But does that mean the fact that he played poorly in LA was unrelated to the fact that he was hobbling around on the court and playing at about 50%?

Im not saying his bad ankle had nothing to do with his bad play, all Im saying is given his play on the road in all the other playoff games we cant act like he would have been dominant in those games had he been 100%.

  But we can act like he'd be godawful in those games if he were at 100%? He seemed to be playing pretty well in game 3 before he was injured.