Author Topic: All the negatives equal a positive....eventually.  (Read 2302 times)

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All the negatives equal a positive....eventually.
« on: April 22, 2009, 10:34:14 AM »

Offline nickagneta

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As I was gripped to the television set the other day watching Ray Allen rescue the Celtics from the embarrassment of being a defending champion and going down 0-2 to a seventh placed team, I turned to my son and said "Can you imagine what this team would have been like if the other day we could have added a fully healthy and functioning KG, Leon and Scal?" Being a glass is half full type of guy, I couldn't help but think after watching Rondo go for a triple double and Big Baby drain jumper after jumper and Perk be a presence down low that all the injuries, as negative and counterproductive as they have been to this teams playoff chances this year, probably has opened a year or two more on the championship window of this team.

Okay, maybe this thought is a bit overboard and perhaps I'm just looking for the silver lining amongst the clouds but, ask yourself this; could Leon, Davis, Perk, Walker and Rondo have made the progressions in their games this year that they did if KG, Scal and everyone else who went down had not gotten injured.

Playing time for players that have nothing will usually not change a thing, they will pretty much always suck. Case in point, Gerald Green, Kwame Brown and to some extent Sebastian Telfair. But playing time for players that have "it" and get "it" will always speed up the development of a player. The trick for any coach is recognizing before handing out that playing time who has "it" and who doesn't. Personally, I think all five of the Celtics young players I mentioned above have "it" and there's probably a decent chance that J.R. Giddens does as well.

So by KG, Scal, and everyone else getting hurt, which are all negative things, add up to a positive eventually? Would Baby, Perk, Leon, Walker and Rondo have developed to the points that they have had the Celtics stayed healthy? Or, a better question might be, would they have progressed as quickly as they did had not the injuries to their team mates not occurred?

I don't see Rondo becoming the consistent scoring threat this quickly that he has become if KG's presence and 14 shots per game were being put up every game. I don't see Baby's jumper becoming nearly as effective as it has had he been playing only 13 MPG and playing with the second team. I don't see Perk's presence becoming as consistently powerful and necessary if KG is in the paint with him and there is another low post threat for this team. I don't see Walker getting any PT whatsoever if Scal doesn't get hurt. And lastly, I don't see Leon getting the time he needed to get out of the first half doldrums he was in for a while if he isn't getting the playing time he did.

If the Celtics hold onto Powe and Davis and extend Rondo this off season I think if these players come back having kept all the advances in their game and worked on something in the off season, it could go a long way toward extending the window for a championship for this team by another year or two. If Doc can rely on Rondo, Davis, Powe and Perk to give him what they do and maybe even a bit more when this team has all it's components healthy, I could see a dramatic drop off in playing time for the Big Three as this team builds large leads that make fourth quarters unnecessary for the older players to play in. I could see a championship next year and possibly contending for another year or two which many people didn't think would happen.

Okay, maybe I'm drinking way, way too much green kool-aid and should take off my green colored spectacles but I really do believe that the starting five has gotten deadly good because of KG's absence and that the bench has solidified itself in important areas because of KG and Scal injuries.

I think no matter how this year ends, and it could still end in a banner being raised, there are a ton of positives to be looked at and celebrated. All our young guns are getting more playoff experience and learning to deliver under pressure. They have all grown their games and now the Big Three know that they are not alone and don't need to do it all. They have certified excellent NBA players around them now that can handle the slack and make their lives easier. I think in the long run, the negatives of this season will turn into positives that will be paying dividends for years to come.

Re: All the negatives equal a positive....eventually.
« Reply #1 on: April 22, 2009, 12:32:52 PM »

Offline nickagneta

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After reading the news about the severity of Powe's knee and the fact he is going to be down for more than 6-8 months, I just thought it appropriate to say that not all negatives can be spun into a positive. I love what Leon Powe, the person, has contributed to this team and community and city and would like to wish him well and a speedy and complete recovery. Get well soon, Leon, we need you not only as a player but the excellent person and role model that you have become.

Re: All the negatives equal a positive....eventually.
« Reply #2 on: April 22, 2009, 01:38:13 PM »

Offline angryguy77

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As I was gripped to the television set the other day watching Ray Allen rescue the Celtics from the embarrassment of being a defending champion and going down 0-2 to a seventh placed team, I turned to my son and said "Can you imagine what this team would have been like if the other day we could have added a fully healthy and functioning KG, Leon and Scal?" Being a glass is half full type of guy, I couldn't help but think after watching Rondo go for a triple double and Big Baby drain jumper after jumper and Perk be a presence down low that all the injuries, as negative and counterproductive as they have been to this teams playoff chances this year, probably has opened a year or two more on the championship window of this team.

Okay, maybe this thought is a bit overboard and perhaps I'm just looking for the silver lining amongst the clouds but, ask yourself this; could Leon, Davis, Perk, Walker and Rondo have made the progressions in their games this year that they did if KG, Scal and everyone else who went down had not gotten injured.

Playing time for players that have nothing will usually not change a thing, they will pretty much always suck. Case in point, Gerald Green, Kwame Brown and to some extent Sebastian Telfair. But playing time for players that have "it" and get "it" will always speed up the development of a player. The trick for any coach is recognizing before handing out that playing time who has "it" and who doesn't. Personally, I think all five of the Celtics young players I mentioned above have "it" and there's probably a decent chance that J.R. Giddens does as well.

So by KG, Scal, and everyone else getting hurt, which are all negative things, add up to a positive eventually? Would Baby, Perk, Leon, Walker and Rondo have developed to the points that they have had the Celtics stayed healthy? Or, a better question might be, would they have progressed as quickly as they did had not the injuries to their team mates not occurred?

I don't see Rondo becoming the consistent scoring threat this quickly that he has become if KG's presence and 14 shots per game were being put up every game. I don't see Baby's jumper becoming nearly as effective as it has had he been playing only 13 MPG and playing with the second team. I don't see Perk's presence becoming as consistently powerful and necessary if KG is in the paint with him and there is another low post threat for this team. I don't see Walker getting any PT whatsoever if Scal doesn't get hurt. And lastly, I don't see Leon getting the time he needed to get out of the first half doldrums he was in for a while if he isn't getting the playing time he did.

If the Celtics hold onto Powe and Davis and extend Rondo this off season I think if these players come back having kept all the advances in their game and worked on something in the off season, it could go a long way toward extending the window for a championship for this team by another year or two. If Doc can rely on Rondo, Davis, Powe and Perk to give him what they do and maybe even a bit more when this team has all it's components healthy, I could see a dramatic drop off in playing time for the Big Three as this team builds large leads that make fourth quarters unnecessary for the older players to play in. I could see a championship next year and possibly contending for another year or two which many people didn't think would happen.

Okay, maybe I'm drinking way, way too much green kool-aid and should take off my green colored spectacles but I really do believe that the starting five has gotten deadly good because of KG's absence and that the bench has solidified itself in important areas because of KG and Scal injuries.

I think no matter how this year ends, and it could still end in a banner being raised, there are a ton of positives to be looked at and celebrated. All our young guns are getting more playoff experience and learning to deliver under pressure. They have all grown their games and now the Big Three know that they are not alone and don't need to do it all. They have certified excellent NBA players around them now that can handle the slack and make their lives easier. I think in the long run, the negatives of this season will turn into positives that will be paying dividends for years to come.

Thats a great way to look at it. i think you are right on with this. I dont think its colored glasses that's swaying you. This happens in sports some teams have gems and they dont know the full capability of them until an injury. I don't think its a stretch to say that if we stay healthy next year that we will be just as good if not better than any other contender(that if their isnt some mega trade).
Back to wanting Joe fired.

Re: All the negatives equal a positive....eventually.
« Reply #3 on: April 22, 2009, 01:44:33 PM »

Offline BillfromBoston

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I don't see how you can look at it any other way - Perk, Rondo, Davis, Powe, Walker are all still improving as players - I have little doubt Powe will recover and re-up...

This team's depth will allow for GPA to rest more and have less offensive responsibility, which should extend the team's window.

Get ready for Bill Walker to join the party next season as a regular rotation player...lets hope Giddens pushes the envelope and does the same.

Regarding Leon and development:

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/159923-lpowe-hurt-too-bad-secrets-out-he-has-a-jumpshot

just nice to know somebody else knows it too...

Re: All the negatives equal a positive....eventually.
« Reply #4 on: April 22, 2009, 01:49:20 PM »

Offline fairweatherfan

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I agree wholeheartedly except I don't think we've seen enough Walker to really see a progression, and Powe more or less treaded water this year. 

But one way or another, our young guys were going to be responsible for shouldering a lot more of the load next year and seasons to come.  It's good to see them get big-game experience, and absolutely great to see Rondo, Perk, and BBD thrive.  I don't think anybody's still realistically thinking championship this year, but the big steps our young guys have made are a promising silver lining.

Re: All the negatives equal a positive....eventually.
« Reply #5 on: April 22, 2009, 01:54:45 PM »

Offline RAcker

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I agree with all of the silver lining talk here.  It's hard to view things this way sometimes when you are like me and wanting to win at all costs all the time. However, kudos to everyone for looking at things realistically and for seeing all of the great positives there are to see.

Does everyone feel that this is the end of the line for Tony Allen in green?  I do.

Re: All the negatives equal a positive....eventually.
« Reply #6 on: April 22, 2009, 01:57:30 PM »

Offline Atzar

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I agree wholeheartedly except I don't think we've seen enough Walker to really see a progression, and Powe more or less treaded water this year. 

But one way or another, our young guys were going to be responsible for shouldering a lot more of the load next year and seasons to come.  It's good to see them get big-game experience, and absolutely great to see Rondo, Perk, and BBD thrive.  I don't think anybody's still realistically thinking championship this year, but the big steps our young guys have made are a promising silver lining.

I agree about Walker, but Powe came on huge near the end of the season just before he got injured.

Re: All the negatives equal a positive....eventually.
« Reply #7 on: April 22, 2009, 02:03:34 PM »

Offline Fafnir

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I agree wholeheartedly except I don't think we've seen enough Walker to really see a progression, and Powe more or less treaded water this year. 

But one way or another, our young guys were going to be responsible for shouldering a lot more of the load next year and seasons to come.  It's good to see them get big-game experience, and absolutely great to see Rondo, Perk, and BBD thrive.  I don't think anybody's still realistically thinking championship this year, but the big steps our young guys have made are a promising silver lining.

I agree about Walker, but Powe came on huge near the end of the season just before he got injured.
So? Having a career game against Memphis and playing very well for a short stretch isn't the leap Powe needs to make. He's always been productive in short minutes or spurts. What he needs to do is perform consistently.

Re: All the negatives equal a positive....eventually.
« Reply #8 on: April 22, 2009, 02:24:59 PM »

Offline fairweatherfan

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Does everyone feel that this is the end of the line for Tony Allen in green?  I do.

I doubt it - he's got another year left on his deal and his salary's too small for someone to take him on for cap relief. 

And amidst all the silver lining talk it's important to note that we've still got 2 HOFers, 1 or 2 future All-Stars (at least), and some savvy vets.  Despite all the adversity, we're still in the hunt, and we'll stay there til someone knocks us out.

Re: All the negatives equal a positive....eventually.
« Reply #9 on: April 22, 2009, 02:38:35 PM »

Offline Atzar

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I agree wholeheartedly except I don't think we've seen enough Walker to really see a progression, and Powe more or less treaded water this year. 

But one way or another, our young guys were going to be responsible for shouldering a lot more of the load next year and seasons to come.  It's good to see them get big-game experience, and absolutely great to see Rondo, Perk, and BBD thrive.  I don't think anybody's still realistically thinking championship this year, but the big steps our young guys have made are a promising silver lining.

I agree about Walker, but Powe came on huge near the end of the season just before he got injured.
So? Having a career game against Memphis and playing very well for a short stretch isn't the leap Powe needs to make. He's always been productive in short minutes or spurts. What he needs to do is perform consistently.

In the 18 games from the beginning of February up to (and excluding) the game he got injured, Powe averaged 10.9 points and 7.2 rebounds.  Including the two games after he returned would only inflate those numbers.  Given that he only started about 20% of those games, I'm more than satisfied with those numbers.  He is easily our best bench scorer not named Eddie, and Eddie doesn't provide the rebounding ability that Powe does.  He did all of this while considerably improving on the defensive end this entire year.  Having said all of that, I think it's reasonable to say that Powe had improved.

Re: All the negatives equal a positive....eventually.
« Reply #10 on: April 22, 2009, 02:41:56 PM »

Offline Fafnir

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I agree wholeheartedly except I don't think we've seen enough Walker to really see a progression, and Powe more or less treaded water this year. 

But one way or another, our young guys were going to be responsible for shouldering a lot more of the load next year and seasons to come.  It's good to see them get big-game experience, and absolutely great to see Rondo, Perk, and BBD thrive.  I don't think anybody's still realistically thinking championship this year, but the big steps our young guys have made are a promising silver lining.

I agree about Walker, but Powe came on huge near the end of the season just before he got injured.
So? Having a career game against Memphis and playing very well for a short stretch isn't the leap Powe needs to make. He's always been productive in short minutes or spurts. What he needs to do is perform consistently.

In the 18 games from the beginning of February up to (and excluding) the game he got injured, Powe averaged 10.9 points and 7.2 rebounds.  Including the two games after he returned would only inflate those numbers.  Given that he only started about 20% of those games, I'm more than satisfied with those numbers.  He is easily our best bench scorer not named Eddie, and Eddie doesn't provide the rebounding ability that Powe does.  He did all of this while considerably improving on the defensive end this entire year.  Having said all of that, I think it's reasonable to say that Powe had improved.
Improved? I'm not so sure of that. On a per minute basis Powe has always done this. He needs to improve his overall game to stay on the court more, stay healthy, and provide consistency with his game.

He was a good bench player last year, was a good bench player this year. But nothing special production wise.