Crappy play aside, I'm proud of this team.

[EJPLAYA]

The execution isn't quite where we'd like it be on a consistent basis, but the Celts have the heart of a champ, and don't give up.   They've been seeing relentless effort from their opponents, and it is tough to match that for 48 minutes every night.  Win it all this year, or not, I am secure in the fact that the Celtics will leave it all out on the floor (as the cliche goes) when their title defense is on the line.

Why can the other team give relentless effort and we as champions can't?! I don't buy that any more than the statement we don't give up. That is exactly what we are doing when we coast through half the game. If they stopped doing this we wouldn't have to win games this way. I'm not saying they give up in the sense that they don't pick the intensity back up when the game is close or they get behind, but they shouldn't be having to do that. We didn't do that last year. There is reason to be worried to some degree, because the Lakers resemble last year's team a lot more than we do.

I'm not sure why you in particular, EJ, have been so down about this team. As LB3533 said, this is not last year. It is understandable that since we are coming off an extended season, and are the world champions, and that the players were especially pumped throughout last season because it was their first season together, that we are not going to look quite as good in the regular season as we did last year. I've argued this point in the past with you, but again, playing poorly does not = coasting. I can guarantee you that the Celtics are not giving up. They've battled their way through a rough stretch in the season, and came out of it 9-2! How can you be worried about that? You know what this team is made of from last year. We can doubt their offensive execution, but you definitely cannot doubt their heart.

And if you wanted to make the effort argument, wouldn't it make a lot more sense if you had some defensive stats to back your argument up? The Celtics are ranked first in the NBA in opponents' FG% (39.6%). They are the only NBA team whose opponents are shooting below 40% from the field.

Since there are many on here who are concerned with the play of the C's this year, however you choose to single me out, I'd be glad to respond. Not sure why you historically choose to pick a fight with me, but all right.

My concern is their effort. Plain and simple. Yes there are going to be nights where they aren't sharp and it doesn't flow, however those should be far and few between. It is the norm this year. We have 2 guys I see out there playing aggressively every single night. That is Perk, and Ray. KG does it most of the time, however he is included in the up and down defensive effort comments, however nothing like PP and Rondo. I am not down on this "team". I think they can repeat if they will give it the effort. I just don't like seeing them get into bad habits and not playing a full 48 minutes. It translates over to the effort of the bench, and it will come back to bite us. We aren't as good overall as we were last year. We lost a great player in Posey, Rondo has regressed dramatically, Leon and BBD aren't playing as well as they should be. We can't just coast out there.

Once people no longer fear you and come out and expect to be able to play with you it is a different ball game. Last year no one really believed they could play with us except for maybe the Hawks. We keep playing like this the list will grow bigger.

Yes the 40% stat looks nice, but we were 42% for the entire year last year and if we keep playing like that it won't happen again. We are also causing 5 less turnovers per game this year than last. We are also committing 2 more fouls per game. Both of those translate into sloppier lazier play.

Don't try to insinuate though that I am not happy we are 9-2. In fact I look at that as a very bright side. If we can get our effort up we can return to the level we need to in order to get #18.

[Toine43]

The execution isn't quite where we'd like it be on a consistent basis, but the Celts have the heart of a champ, and don't give up.   They've been seeing relentless effort from their opponents, and it is tough to match that for 48 minutes every night.  Win it all this year, or not, I am secure in the fact that the Celtics will leave it all out on the floor (as the cliche goes) when their title defense is on the line.

Why can the other team give relentless effort and we as champions can't?! I don't buy that any more than the statement we don't give up. That is exactly what we are doing when we coast through half the game. If they stopped doing this we wouldn't have to win games this way. I'm not saying they give up in the sense that they don't pick the intensity back up when the game is close or they get behind, but they shouldn't be having to do that. We didn't do that last year. There is reason to be worried to some degree, because the Lakers resemble last year's team a lot more than we do.

I'm not sure why you in particular, EJ, have been so down about this team. As LB3533 said, this is not last year. It is understandable that since we are coming off an extended season, and are the world champions, and that the players were especially pumped throughout last season because it was their first season together, that we are not going to look quite as good in the regular season as we did last year. I've argued this point in the past with you, but again, playing poorly does not = coasting. I can guarantee you that the Celtics are not giving up. They've battled their way through a rough stretch in the season, and came out of it 9-2! How can you be worried about that? You know what this team is made of from last year. We can doubt their offensive execution, but you definitely cannot doubt their heart.

And if you wanted to make the effort argument, wouldn't it make a lot more sense if you had some defensive stats to back your argument up? The Celtics are ranked first in the NBA in opponents' FG% (39.6%). They are the only NBA team whose opponents are shooting below 40% from the field.

Since there are many on here who are concerned with the play of the C's this year, however you choose to single me out, I'd be glad to respond. Not sure why you historically choose to pick a fight with me, but all right.

My concern is their effort. Plain and simple. Yes there are going to be nights where they aren't sharp and it doesn't flow, however those should be far and few between. It is the norm this year. We have 2 guys I see out there playing aggressively every single night. That is Perk, and Ray. KG does it most of the time, however he is included in the up and down defensive effort comments, however nothing like PP and Rondo. I am not down on this "team". I think they can repeat if they will give it the effort. I just don't like seeing them get into bad habits and not playing a full 48 minutes. It translates over to the effort of the bench, and it will come back to bite us. We aren't as good overall as we were last year. We lost a great player in Posey, Rondo has regressed dramatically, Leon and BBD aren't playing as well as they should be. We can't just coast out there.

Once people no longer fear you and come out and expect to be able to play with you it is a different ball game. Last year no one really believed they could play with us except for maybe the Hawks. We keep playing like this the list will grow bigger.

Yes the 40% stat looks nice, but we were 42% for the entire year last year and if we keep playing like that it won't happen again. We are also causing 5 less turnovers per game this year than last. We are also committing 2 more fouls per game. Both of those translate into sloppier lazier play.

Don't try to insinuate though that I am not happy we are 9-2. In fact I look at that as a very bright side. If we can get our effort up we can return to the level we need to in order to get #18.

On defense, there is not a noticeable decline in our effort from last year. Doc himself has repeatedly stated that offense is our problem.

I checked your turnover stat, and it's not true. Last season we caused 16.0 turnovers per game. This year we have forced 16.9 per game. We are the third best team in turnover forced per game, the same as we were last year.

The stats and the naked eye both say that we are the same defensive team as last year. Therefore, it gets pretty tough to doubt our effort.

I don't historically pick a fight with you, I just disagree about the team's play this year.

[ManUp]

Saying I'm proud of the team this season would be a stretch. I'm definitely happy with the record, a 9-2 is great for any 11 game stretch, but still a bit annoyed. Watching this team half heartedly go through these games is too me the same as watching Rondo pass up an open shot when he's at the rim. Even though we win more times then not it's still frustrating to watch.

[celticmaestro]

Last season we caused 16.0 turnovers per game. This year we have forced 16.9 per game. We are the third best team in turnover forced per game, the same as we were last year.

The stats and the naked eye both say that we are the same defensive team as last year. Therefore, it gets pretty tough to doubt our effort.

I don't historically pick a fight with you, I just disagree about the team's play this year.

This is true. TP.

[Edgar]

I will make my call after we survive a trip into the deep easter conf.
yup
i say eastern

[Redz]

The execution isn't quite where we'd like it be on a consistent basis, but the Celts have the heart of a champ, and don't give up.   They've been seeing relentless effort from their opponents, and it is tough to match that for 48 minutes every night.  Win it all this year, or not, I am secure in the fact that the Celtics will leave it all out on the floor (as the cliche goes) when their title defense is on the line.

Why can the other team give relentless effort and we as champions can't?! I don't buy that any more than the statement we don't give up. That is exactly what we are doing when we coast through half the game. If they stopped doing this we wouldn't have to win games this way. I'm not saying they give up in the sense that they don't pick the intensity back up when the game is close or they get behind, but they shouldn't be having to do that. We didn't do that last year. There is reason to be worried to some degree, because the Lakers resemble last year's team a lot more than we do.

Well, apparently this touched off some heated discussion, so I'll chime back in.

No, we haven't seen the sustained effort that we saw last year and my sad, but my truthful gut feeling for this above all is:

NO JAMES POSEY

There are other factors, such as the Celtics constantly feeling the need to prove themselves last year.  The type of sustained effort we saw last year was also about as rare a thing as you've seen in the NBA over the course of a full year in a long, long time.

But back to Posey...This is not me whining about them not signing him.  I understand why they did not, and I don't want rehash all that or sound sour grapes - I'm not. I've mentioned my feelings about Posey contribution many times this year and last.
My feeling is, and was, that when the Celtics were at their very best last year, it seemed to me that James Posey on the floor.  This doesn't mean they were always their best when he was playing, but at those moments where the Celtics were crushing teams into submission with a frantic level of D that forced the opponent to panic (and LOSE BY A LOT) Posey was on the floor. 

That type of defensive pressure - in my mind the signature of last years championship team - has largely been lacking this year.  I can only remember one game that even reminded me of that level of D (vs Chicago).

I don't have stats to back it up, but I also don;t think you could really quantify Posey's influence with stats.  All I know is that when the Celts reached that ultimate level last year, I'd marvel at the high frequency of times Posey was on the floor. 

So far no one's filled those shoes, and that TURBO boost has not been there.  The boost that not just won games, but beat teams badly.

So, yes EJ, I am a little worried that we will never return to that level.  But there are many ways to skin the proverbial cat, and I am indeed proud of the way this team has played while trying to figure things out.  Hopefully they do.