Author Topic: TONY ALLEN on Kobe.....!  (Read 6209 times)

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Re: TONY ALLEN on Kobe.....!
« Reply #15 on: June 11, 2008, 10:17:28 AM »

Offline TripleOT

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TA has unfortunately played himself into the 12th man on the bench due to his poor play in limited minutes and his bonehead miscues in the few key spots when he finally gets on the floor. 

Theoretically, an effective Tony Allen would be a good change up defender on Kobe, and would be a welcome addition to the team's offense with his slashing ability, since both Ray Allen and James Posey really aren't slashers anymore.  Nut the fact is, TA has just plain sucked lately, and doesn't have the coaches' trust anymore.

That's not saying he won't get thrown in there if the team gets a ton of foul trouble early at the swing spots.  And he might come up big, given his past success against the Lakers, but I don't see Doc calling his nimber unless circumstances are dire. 

Re: TONY ALLEN on Kobe.....!
« Reply #16 on: June 11, 2008, 10:31:08 AM »

Offline crownsy

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As i said before, Tony did the job before and he can do it again, yee of little faith, also known as the exact same guy who jumped on my post about Leon Powe, promoting his playing time. I guess some guys here have a lot of talking experience but little playing experience, so i don't fault you for that, nothing we can do there! Also, if you held every C's player to the same standard, you would come up with the same results, mistakes, some costly, some not, you just overlook the guys you like, and jump on the one...you don't. Until you are again proven wrong. there are a lot of reasonable people here who have seen TA play and be effective, so stop the heresay. you don't like him, fine, that is your opinion, but do not take a run at me, this isn't the forum for that....I have seen a lot of C's make big mistakes and ones that look like they were sleeping, lazy passes, air balls, passes to no one, we don't record them. TA has played some great games, and has guarded kobe well before. It is also not the best thing to do to put one of your best offensive players on their best offensive players, great D wears a man out, and when guarding kobe, you need to be 100%, another reason to TA, if his offense is as you say, then he can better concentrate on D, deny Kobe the ball, ect.....so lighten up and keep it general.

couple things here.

I swear im not trying to be a grammer guy, but can you break up your posts alittle? its hard to read them when there this long and there's no paragraph or line breaks.

first, "if you held every C's player to the same standereds, youd come up with the same mistakes, miscues ect"

blatantly not true nor supported by facts. TA has, as someone pointed out, the worst TO rate of any gaurd IN THE NBA. Thats astounding, and unacceptable in the playoffs.

moving on, no one said they hate TA or he doesn't have talent. It's not a "i hate TA" thing as you seem to think, its that you can't afford the dumb mistakes tony does on a nightly basis in playoff games. Tony is the least consistant player on this roster. you might get great D out of him, or you might get quick fouls. You might get good offense, you might get 3 stright TO's.

can't play guys like that in the playoffs.

your last points are the ones i have the most issue with. TA has played some "great games against kobe"- Like what ones? link the box score. TA played kobe alright in limited minutes, but he ceartanly didn't have any standout preformances.

then you say its ok he is an offensive liablity because he can focus on D and not contribute to the offense. thats a huge problem. we saw it last night, if kobe doesn't have to cover you (rondo) then he is a double team on every single other player. thats a real bad thing to let go on. we have to with rajon, tony we don't.

plus, over two games, ray and the others defending kobe have done fine. in fact, if you take out kobe's FT's last night, about half of which were bail out calls, he shot around 35%. awesome.






“I will hurt you for this. A day will come when you think you’re safe and happy and your joy will turn to ashes in your mouth. And you will know the debt is paid.” – Tyrion

Re: TONY ALLEN on Kobe.....!
« Reply #17 on: June 11, 2008, 10:37:55 AM »

Offline wdleehi

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Simple question.


What can TA do on Kobe one on one better then Ray and Pierce have been doing? 


The answer, nothing. 

Re: TONY ALLEN on Kobe.....!
« Reply #18 on: June 11, 2008, 10:39:28 AM »

Offline Chris

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Regardless of the arguments against Tony ever stepping on the floor in this series, I think there is a fundamental flaw in this argument anyways. 

The assumption here seems to be that all of a sudden Ray Allen can't stick with Kobe anymore.  I definitely disagree with that. 

Last night Kobe had a great game, but I don't think Ray played any different defense than he did earlier in the series.  He was still doing a great job of getting in Kobe's face without fouling him, and trying to beat him to his shot.

The difference in this game was with the team defense.  The second line of defense was not stepping up to close the lanes like they did in the first two games.  Most of the C's were a half a count too slow on their rotations, and this was allowing Kobe to build up a head of steam going to the basket.  Then he would get to the line, because instead of cutting him off and challenging him like they have done in the first two games, they were forced to reach and grab.

If the rest of the team is playing the way they should, then Ray Allen is the perfect player on this team to cover Kobe.

Re: TONY ALLEN on Kobe.....!
« Reply #19 on: June 11, 2008, 10:39:45 AM »

Offline Andy Jick

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Simple question.


What can TA do on Kobe one on one better then Ray and Pierce have been doing? 


The answer, nothing. 

actually, he could possibly keep them out of foul trouble...TA has 6 to waste and it would have been nice having pierce in the game a little longer last night.
"It was easier to know it than to explain why I know it."

Re: TONY ALLEN on Kobe.....!
« Reply #20 on: June 11, 2008, 10:44:58 AM »

Offline wdleehi

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Simple question.


What can TA do on Kobe one on one better then Ray and Pierce have been doing? 


The answer, nothing. 

actually, he could possibly keep them out of foul trouble...TA has 6 to waste and it would have been nice having pierce in the game a little longer last night.


That doesn't protect Pierce from the charge call.  Doesn't protect Pierce from reaching in on Gasol

Re: TONY ALLEN on Kobe.....!
« Reply #21 on: June 11, 2008, 10:47:59 AM »

Offline Chris

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Simple question.


What can TA do on Kobe one on one better then Ray and Pierce have been doing? 


The answer, nothing. 

actually, he could possibly keep them out of foul trouble...TA has 6 to waste and it would have been nice having pierce in the game a little longer last night.


That doesn't protect Pierce from the charge call.  Doesn't protect Pierce from reaching in on Gasol

Not to mention, putting Kobe on the line is not the solution...just ask the Jazz.

Re: TONY ALLEN on Kobe.....!
« Reply #22 on: June 11, 2008, 10:54:28 AM »

Offline Andy Jick

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well, they have to do something a little different...and whatever it is, it cannot involve leaving sasha or fisher open for threes. 

if they apply the same principles to kobe that they did on lebron they'll be fine...it comes back to that "can't stop him but can only hope to contain him" stuff.

but what they cannot do is put pierce in foul trouble, so giving tony a shot might be what the doc ordered.

heroes can be found in the playoffs...in 1987, darren daye turned into one in milwaukee.  anything is possible...
"It was easier to know it than to explain why I know it."

Re: TONY ALLEN on Kobe.....!
« Reply #23 on: June 11, 2008, 10:59:35 AM »

Offline crownsy

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well, they have to do something a little different...and whatever it is, it cannot involve leaving sasha or fisher open for threes. 

if they apply the same principles to kobe that they did on lebron they'll be fine...it comes back to that "can't stop him but can only hope to contain him" stuff.

but what they cannot do is put pierce in foul trouble, so giving tony a shot might be what the doc ordered.

heroes can be found in the playoffs...in 1987, darren daye turned into one in milwaukee.  anything is possible...

they really dont need to do anythign diffrent.

as W said, thier rotation was slower than it was the first 2 games in boston, but dispite that and the glaring make up FT disparity, they held the lakers to 87 points.

thats still good defense, this is a team that averges 102.

our problem last night wasen't kobe on offense, it was that we couldn't score to save our lives and missed wide open looks (kg espically, alot of his bricks were wide  open mid range jumpers he normaly makes.)

“I will hurt you for this. A day will come when you think you’re safe and happy and your joy will turn to ashes in your mouth. And you will know the debt is paid.” – Tyrion

Re: TONY ALLEN on Kobe.....!
« Reply #24 on: June 11, 2008, 11:05:15 AM »

Offline crownsy

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well, they have to do something a little different...and whatever it is, it cannot involve leaving sasha or fisher open for threes. 

if they apply the same principles to kobe that they did on lebron they'll be fine...it comes back to that "can't stop him but can only hope to contain him" stuff.

but what they cannot do is put pierce in foul trouble, so giving tony a shot might be what the doc ordered.

heroes can be found in the playoffs...in 1987, darren daye turned into one in milwaukee.  anything is possible...

right, we need to get back to the crisp rotation from game 1 and 2. simple as that. crips rotation= no open 3's.

 no need for crazy new subs or anything. just play like we did the first two games and get more than 5-38 out fo pierce and kg.

also, if 87 points is going to be a "good" game for this laker offense, celtics in 6, mabey 5.
“I will hurt you for this. A day will come when you think you’re safe and happy and your joy will turn to ashes in your mouth. And you will know the debt is paid.” – Tyrion

Re: TONY ALLEN on Kobe.....!
« Reply #25 on: June 11, 2008, 11:11:54 AM »

Offline TripleOT

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TA did a good job on Kobe in the regular season game in LA, and we was efficient and effective offensively. TA played a whopping 42 minutes, starting in Rondo's spot, and had 16 points on 10 shots, 3 rebounds, 4 assists, and 4 TOs.  Kobe was 6-25 for only 22 points, with both Ray Allen and TA covering him, IIRC. 

An effective TA brings a lot to this team off the bench, but the sad truth is that TA has played himself to the end of the bench due to his lack of effectiveness.   

Re: TONY ALLEN on Kobe.....!
« Reply #26 on: June 11, 2008, 11:13:43 AM »

Offline wdleehi

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TA did a good job on Kobe in the regular season game in LA, and we was efficient and effective offensively. TA played a whopping 42 minutes, starting in Rondo's spot, and had 16 points on 10 shots, 3 rebounds, 4 assists, and 4 TOs.  Kobe was 6-25 for only 22 points, with both Ray Allen and TA covering him, IIRC. 

An effective TA brings a lot to this team off the bench, but the sad truth is that TA has played himself to the end of the bench due to his lack of effectiveness.   


And how many games of major play does it take for TA to become effective?  5, 10?

Re: TONY ALLEN on Kobe.....!
« Reply #27 on: June 11, 2008, 11:18:40 AM »

Offline TripleOT

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TA did a good job on Kobe in the regular season game in LA, and we was efficient and effective offensively. TA played a whopping 42 minutes, starting in Rondo's spot, and had 16 points on 10 shots, 3 rebounds, 4 assists, and 4 TOs.  Kobe was 6-25 for only 22 points, with both Ray Allen and TA covering him, IIRC. 

An effective TA brings a lot to this team off the bench, but the sad truth is that TA has played himself to the end of the bench due to his lack of effectiveness.   


And how many games of major play does it take for TA to become effective?  5, 10?

What does that have to do with my post, which certainly mentions that the guy has played himself out of contention for rotation minutes?