the box score version of last night's game

[reggie35]

Ok. After a day of work to cool me down, I decided to look at the box score to see what it had to say about last nights game. From the box score point of view, the story was free throws. The Hawks were 29-33 versus 10-18. The C's make their FTs and they win, BUT my preferred point of view is that the C's were jobbed by the refs. The C's took lots of shots in the paint (more than Atlanta) and yet the large disparity in FTs. Extra TV/seat revenue? Maybe all of this is fixed WWF style.

From actually having watched the game, the C's were playing scared, Joe Johnson wasn't, and Doc still can't coach. Solve one of these three and the C's win free throws notwithstanding.

[Andy Jick]

in the 4th quarter the c's played like a bunch of pansies...jump shot after jump shot.  ATTACK THE RIM and we easily win this game.

they didn't play to win...they played not to lose.

joe johnson attacked and we settled for fall-away jumpers.  you don't "see" that in the boxscore, but your eyes tell a different story.

[billysan]

in the 4th quarter the c's played like a bunch of pansies...jump shot after jump shot.  ATTACK THE RIM and we easily win this game.

they didn't play to win...they played not to lose.

joe johnson attacked and we settled for fall-away jumpers.  you don't "see" that in the boxscore, but your eyes tell a different story.

We didnt attack the rim because we were gun shy, Josh Smith was blocking everything in sight. Horford was outplaying our bigs in the paint as well. You are right about the jumpers, but that has been our M.O. all season. We shoot volume jumpers and have little to no post offense on most nights.

Honestly, I dont think Doc had anything to do with our shot selection or lack of team play. Nearly every possession the Hawks had 3-4 guys crashing the boards to our 1, while our 'shooters' watched from outside. They outhustled us for loose balls and didnt back down when we made our 'runs'.

I really think Paul Pierce is hurting physically and refusing to come out of the game. We played better with Posey on the floor and Paul on the bench last night IMO. Paul was not effective at creating or attacking as he usually would be and he didnt board much either. He did ok on defending Williams, gotta give credit for that at least.

Garnett let Josh Smith get to him a little as well and tried to do too much. I think Ray did a fair job on Joe Johnson, but didnt score enough to neutralize him. Josh Childress hurt us just as much IMO.

I think the Hawks were 'giving' us the outside jumpers and we were obliging them. Why not? we werent making them. They basically said "prove you can make them and we will come out on you". They didnt need to, did they?

[NoraG1]

Most of the blocks looked like fouls to me but were not called.

[NoraG1]

in the 4th quarter the c's played like a bunch of pansies...jump shot after jump shot.  ATTACK THE RIM and we easily win this game.

they didn't play to win...they played not to lose.

joe johnson attacked and we settled for fall-away jumpers.  you don't "see" that in the boxscore, but your eyes tell a different story.

We didnt attack the rim because we were gun shy, Josh Smith was blocking everything in sight. Horford was outplaying our bigs in the paint as well. You are right about the jumpers, but that has been our M.O. all season. We shoot volume jumpers and have little to no post offense on most nights.

Honestly, I dont think Doc had anything to do with our shot selection or lack of team play. Nearly every possession the Hawks had 3-4 guys crashing the boards to our 1, while our 'shooters' watched from outside. They outhustled us for loose balls and didnt back down when we made our 'runs'.

I really think Paul Pierce is hurting physically and refusing to come out of the game. We played better with Posey on the floor and Paul on the bench last night IMO. Paul was not effective at creating or attacking as he usually would be and he didnt board much either. He did ok on defending Williams, gotta give credit for that at least.

Garnett let Josh Smith get to him a little as well and tried to do too much. I think Ray did a fair job on Joe Johnson, but didnt score enough to neutralize him. Josh Childress hurt us just as much IMO.

I think the Hawks were 'giving' us the outside jumpers and we were obliging them. Why not? we werent making them. They basically said "prove you can make them and we will come out on you". They didnt need to, did they?

How exactly did Ray Allen do a fair job on Johnson? All I can think of is the 4th quarter blitz he put on against Allen.

[billysan]

in the 4th quarter the c's played like a bunch of pansies...jump shot after jump shot.  ATTACK THE RIM and we easily win this game.

they didn't play to win...they played not to lose.

joe johnson attacked and we settled for fall-away jumpers.  you don't "see" that in the boxscore, but your eyes tell a different story.

We didnt attack the rim because we were gun shy, Josh Smith was blocking everything in sight. Horford was outplaying our bigs in the paint as well. You are right about the jumpers, but that has been our M.O. all season. We shoot volume jumpers and have little to no post offense on most nights.

Honestly, I dont think Doc had anything to do with our shot selection or lack of team play. Nearly every possession the Hawks had 3-4 guys crashing the boards to our 1, while our 'shooters' watched from outside. They outhustled us for loose balls and didnt back down when we made our 'runs'.

I really think Paul Pierce is hurting physically and refusing to come out of the game. We played better with Posey on the floor and Paul on the bench last night IMO. Paul was not effective at creating or attacking as he usually would be and he didnt board much either. He did ok on defending Williams, gotta give credit for that at least.

Garnett let Josh Smith get to him a little as well and tried to do too much. I think Ray did a fair job on Joe Johnson, but didnt score enough to neutralize him. Josh Childress hurt us just as much IMO.

I think the Hawks were 'giving' us the outside jumpers and we were obliging them. Why not? we werent making them. They basically said "prove you can make them and we will come out on you". They didnt need to, did they?

How exactly did Ray Allen do a fair job on Johnson? All I can think of is the 4th quarter blitz he put on against Allen.

My feeling is that when Ray was covering Johnson he was doing OK. When Ray left Johnson to play help defense, switched or sagged off him in the 'zone', Johnson did score.

My point is, Joe Johnson did not beat us 'all by himself' and much of this board implies that he is the difference in the game. He did make open shots when given the opportunity, especially in the 4th quarter. I think Josh Childress and Josh Smith hurt us just as bad if not worse throughout the game.

Do you also think KG did a good job on Smith?

[Andy Jick]

not sure what game you were watching, but joe johnson had a layup-fest down the stretch in that game.  he singlehandedly beat us down the stretch because he, unlike our players, attacked the rim nearly every time in the closing minutes.

"much of this board implies he's the difference in this game" - huh?  you ask anyone who watched that game and say ONE NAME that made the difference and 100% of them will say joe johnson.  this board implies that because it's the truth.

[NoraG1]

in the 4th quarter the c's played like a bunch of pansies...jump shot after jump shot.  ATTACK THE RIM and we easily win this game.

they didn't play to win...they played not to lose.

joe johnson attacked and we settled for fall-away jumpers.  you don't "see" that in the boxscore, but your eyes tell a different story.

We didnt attack the rim because we were gun shy, Josh Smith was blocking everything in sight. Horford was outplaying our bigs in the paint as well. You are right about the jumpers, but that has been our M.O. all season. We shoot volume jumpers and have little to no post offense on most nights.

Honestly, I dont think Doc had anything to do with our shot selection or lack of team play. Nearly every possession the Hawks had 3-4 guys crashing the boards to our 1, while our 'shooters' watched from outside. They outhustled us for loose balls and didnt back down when we made our 'runs'.

I really think Paul Pierce is hurting physically and refusing to come out of the game. We played better with Posey on the floor and Paul on the bench last night IMO. Paul was not effective at creating or attacking as he usually would be and he didnt board much either. He did ok on defending Williams, gotta give credit for that at least.

Garnett let Josh Smith get to him a little as well and tried to do too much. I think Ray did a fair job on Joe Johnson, but didnt score enough to neutralize him. Josh Childress hurt us just as much IMO.

I think the Hawks were 'giving' us the outside jumpers and we were obliging them. Why not? we werent making them. They basically said "prove you can make them and we will come out on you". They didnt need to, did they?

How exactly did Ray Allen do a fair job on Johnson? All I can think of is the 4th quarter blitz he put on against Allen.

My feeling is that when Ray was covering Johnson he was doing OK. When Ray left Johnson to play help defense, switched or sagged off him in the 'zone', Johnson did score.

My point is, Joe Johnson did not beat us 'all by himself' and much of this board implies that he is the difference in the game. He did make open shots when given the opportunity, especially in the 4th quarter. I think Josh Childress and Josh Smith hurt us just as bad if not worse throughout the game.

Do you also think KG did a good job on Smith?

No he didn't do a good job but neither did Ray and that is what sticked out to me esp. in the 4th and what cost us the game Ray or whoever was  supposed to be gaurding Johnson did a bad job when it mattered. The whole team did bad overall but the Johnson blitz at the end sticks out most.

[Steve Weinman]

in the 4th quarter the c's played like a bunch of pansies...jump shot after jump shot.  ATTACK THE RIM and we easily win this game.

they didn't play to win...they played not to lose.

joe johnson attacked and we settled for fall-away jumpers.  you don't "see" that in the boxscore, but your eyes tell a different story.

We didnt attack the rim because we were gun shy, Josh Smith was blocking everything in sight. Horford was outplaying our bigs in the paint as well. You are right about the jumpers, but that has been our M.O. all season. We shoot volume jumpers and have little to no post offense on most nights.

Honestly, I dont think Doc had anything to do with our shot selection or lack of team play. Nearly every possession the Hawks had 3-4 guys crashing the boards to our 1, while our 'shooters' watched from outside. They outhustled us for loose balls and didnt back down when we made our 'runs'.

I really think Paul Pierce is hurting physically and refusing to come out of the game. We played better with Posey on the floor and Paul on the bench last night IMO. Paul was not effective at creating or attacking as he usually would be and he didnt board much either. He did ok on defending Williams, gotta give credit for that at least.

Garnett let Josh Smith get to him a little as well and tried to do too much. I think Ray did a fair job on Joe Johnson, but didnt score enough to neutralize him. Josh Childress hurt us just as much IMO.

I think the Hawks were 'giving' us the outside jumpers and we were obliging them. Why not? we werent making them. They basically said "prove you can make them and we will come out on you". They didnt need to, did they?

How exactly did Ray Allen do a fair job on Johnson? All I can think of is the 4th quarter blitz he put on against Allen.

My feeling is that when Ray was covering Johnson he was doing OK. When Ray left Johnson to play help defense, switched or sagged off him in the 'zone', Johnson did score.

My point is, Joe Johnson did not beat us 'all by himself' and much of this board implies that he is the difference in the game. He did make open shots when given the opportunity, especially in the 4th quarter. I think Josh Childress and Josh Smith hurt us just as bad if not worse throughout the game.

Do you also think KG did a good job on Smith?

Can't help but lean Andy Jick's way on this one, billysan.  I wouldn't necessarily say that Johnson did it 'all by himself,' -- as he had plenty of help from Smith in particular -- but the guy outscored the Celtics in the final period (20-17), and he and Josh Smith combined for his team's final 32 points, with Johnson going 7-for-10 from the field in the fourth quarter.  Make no mistake, Johnson did whatever he wanted to do down the stretch.  He wasn't simply being 'given' decent looks at the rim.  The Hawks ran the same high screen for him roughly 238573252 consecutive times, and Allen consistently trailed him around the screen, which made it extremely hard for him to recover and stop the quicker Johnson.  When the Celtics switched on the high screen, Johnson often had mismatches -- i.e. the play on which he put Leon Powe on the floor with a crossover, then stepped back and calmly drained a wide-open three -- and when they didn't, he simply absued Ray.  The man was out of this world in the fourth quarter, and the C's made no adjustments to stop him -- prior to the ill-fated trap attempt with 39 seconds left that sealed the game on the Pierce foul.

As far as Allen sagging into a 'zone,' I'm not sure what you're referencing.  From what I saw, Allen was matched up with Johnson (I certainly wouldn't say he 'guarded' him) throughout the fourth quarter and simply didn't stop his man.

For what it's worth, this isn't 'hating' on Ray.  I love the guy, and I've been thrilled to have him as a part of this team.  But he has never been a great defender, and he simply couldn't cover JJ down the stretch last night.

-sw