Tim Bontemps tidbit on Porzingis trade: The Js struggled against switching Ds

[DefenseWinsChamps]

One of the things Porzingis is really good at is punishing switching defences. He has become really good at taking advantage of smaller guys being switched out onto him - can score in the post at will on those guys. He's a really intriguing match-up problem, because with his shooting touch he is a real perimeter spacer, but at 7'3" he obviously provides vertical spacing too, and he punishes switches.

Yeah.  There's a reason he was called a unicorn.  He's deadly in the paint, he can space, and he can be disruptive on defense.  I hope the coaching staff is spending all summer figuring out ways to maximize his skill set.

In the back of my head, I worry we'll see Joe use him like Horford, which means ignoring his inside skillset and focusing almost exclusively on the perimeter.  That would be a horrific misuse of skills for a 7'3" guy, but I haven't seen a lot of flexibility and adaptability in the past from Joe.

The one area I don't feel I have a good grasp on:  how is KP as a passer?

Like Rick Carlisle did towards the end of Zinger's time in Dallas.

Thing is, his floor spacing is what is most valuable to a winning team. He just isn't quite efficient enough and doesn't draw enough fouls to have his post game be a highlight of a team's offense. Yet, to this point, he has felt like he deserved to get post touches.

I think the Al Horford from a few years ago would be a perfect role. One where he does occassionally work out of the post against mismatches, but mainly keeps the offense flowing and stretches the floor.

[Roy H.]

One of the things Porzingis is really good at is punishing switching defences. He has become really good at taking advantage of smaller guys being switched out onto him - can score in the post at will on those guys. He's a really intriguing match-up problem, because with his shooting touch he is a real perimeter spacer, but at 7'3" he obviously provides vertical spacing too, and he punishes switches.

Yeah.  There's a reason he was called a unicorn.  He's deadly in the paint, he can space, and he can be disruptive on defense.  I hope the coaching staff is spending all summer figuring out ways to maximize his skill set.

In the back of my head, I worry we'll see Joe use him like Horford, which means ignoring his inside skillset and focusing almost exclusively on the perimeter.  That would be a horrific misuse of skills for a 7'3" guy, but I haven't seen a lot of flexibility and adaptability in the past from Joe.

The one area I don't feel I have a good grasp on:  how is KP as a passer?

Like Rick Carlisle did towards the end of Zinger's time in Dallas.

Thing is, his floor spacing is what is most valuable to a winning team. He just isn't quite efficient enough and doesn't draw enough fouls to have his post game be a highlight of a team's offense. Yet, to this point, he has felt like he deserved to get post touches.

He does deserve post touches.  He also should operate as a floor spacer.  And from the elbow.

KP has an extremely versatile offensive game.  Sticking him in the corner relegates his game to a rich man's Grant Williams, which is wasting his skill set.

[footey]

My first thought on this is that the problem was not when they switched on Tatum, it is when they doubled him, which was often in the playoffs.  I think he has gotten better at dealing with the double, not as good as Jimmy Butler, but better.  Scheme is an issue too though.  The rest of the team needs to be moving, not just standing around.

As to Porzingis, I absolutely think he is going to help tremendously.  Most of the year, we played Horford and 4 guards/wings.  Horford mostly stayed in the corner.  Porzingis is going to add much more versatility to the offense.  This should make it harder for teams to double Tatum (or Brown).

Celtics a better passing team under Mazzula than under Udoka.  We finished 7th in assists per game last season, 13th in Ime's season.  26.2 v 24.8

[footey]

One of the things Porzingis is really good at is punishing switching defences. He has become really good at taking advantage of smaller guys being switched out onto him - can score in the post at will on those guys. He's a really intriguing match-up problem, because with his shooting touch he is a real perimeter spacer, but at 7'3" he obviously provides vertical spacing too, and he punishes switches.

Yeah.  There's a reason he was called a unicorn.  He's deadly in the paint, he can space, and he can be disruptive on defense.  I hope the coaching staff is spending all summer figuring out ways to maximize his skill set.

In the back of my head, I worry we'll see Joe use him like Horford, which means ignoring his inside skillset and focusing almost exclusively on the perimeter.  That would be a horrific misuse of skills for a 7'3" guy, but I haven't seen a lot of flexibility and adaptability in the past from Joe.

The one area I don't feel I have a good grasp on:  how is KP as a passer?

Like Rick Carlisle did towards the end of Zinger's time in Dallas.

Thing is, his floor spacing is what is most valuable to a winning team. He just isn't quite efficient enough and doesn't draw enough fouls to have his post game be a highlight of a team's offense. Yet, to this point, he has felt like he deserved to get post touches.

He does deserve post touches.  He also should operate as a floor spacer.  And from the elbow.

KP has an extremely versatile offensive game.  Sticking him in the corner relegates his game to a rich man's Grant Williams, which is wasting his skill set.

Brad is licking his chops because he imagines KP can be used the way he was in that game in DC late last season, where KP dominated both in the paint and from 3.  He made Al and Rob look kind of small.  I actually said hi to Brad at the DC airport the next morning. Little did I know that he was scheming to get Porzingis back then!!

[Vermont Green]

My first thought on this is that the problem was not when they switched on Tatum, it is when they doubled him, which was often in the playoffs.  I think he has gotten better at dealing with the double, not as good as Jimmy Butler, but better.  Scheme is an issue too though.  The rest of the team needs to be moving, not just standing around.

As to Porzingis, I absolutely think he is going to help tremendously.  Most of the year, we played Horford and 4 guards/wings.  Horford mostly stayed in the corner.  Porzingis is going to add much more versatility to the offense.  This should make it harder for teams to double Tatum (or Brown).

Celtics a better passing team under Mazzula than under Udoka.  We finished 7th in assists per game last season, 13th in Ime's season.  26.2 v 24.8

Offensive execution under Udoka never got that advanced either.  I understand that it takes a while for it to get ingrained to the degree necessary to be able to execute at the NBA level.  We have not gotten there in either season in my view.  I do not feel the offensive execution was better under Mazzulla though, in spite of the assist numbers, rather I think it regressed a little.

But as to assists, didn't we learn with Rondo that assists can be a misleading stat?  Some assists come from one guy pounding the ball and are not indicative of good offense.  Others come from good team ball and player movement and are indicative of good offense.  Team assists are more revealing than individual assists as many of the best shots come after a few passes, not just one pass, but assists reflect only part of the story (like any stat).

I concede and have said that I feel Tatum in particular has improved in terms of dealing with the double team.  But the good shot out of a double team comes after 2-3 passes usually, not one pass, so it is not all about Tatum.  I am hoping that with the team able to run it back with largely the same team and same head coach, and with assistants who want to be here, that the team and the coaching staff can go to the next level in terms of offensive execution and scheme.  If they do, the assist numbers will take care of themselves.

I want to see the ball and players moving.  The last couple of seasons we move the ball OK but the off ball player movement is limited and predictable.  Teams can throw a double at Tatum and know the rest of the team is going to stand around.  We are easy to defend.  We often overcome that with raw talent, thankfully, but we need to add that next level of nuance to our offensive scheme, and the execute it.  I think Porzingis is going to help with that.  The coaches need to teach/work that.  And of course, the players need to buy into it and execute it, especially at the end of games.

This is what has prevented us from winning a championship the last two seasons.

[BitterJim]

My first thought on this is that the problem was not when they switched on Tatum, it is when they doubled him, which was often in the playoffs.  I think he has gotten better at dealing with the double, not as good as Jimmy Butler, but better.  Scheme is an issue too though.  The rest of the team needs to be moving, not just standing around.

As to Porzingis, I absolutely think he is going to help tremendously.  Most of the year, we played Horford and 4 guards/wings.  Horford mostly stayed in the corner.  Porzingis is going to add much more versatility to the offense.  This should make it harder for teams to double Tatum (or Brown).

Celtics a better passing team under Mazzula than under Udoka.  We finished 7th in assists per game last season, 13th in Ime's season.  26.2 v 24.8

Better assist %, too, so it wasn't just due to pace. And lower TO%/higher A:TO ratio.

Maybe that would change if you compared just the 2nd half of Ime's season or looked at the playoffs, but I think for the most part it's people looking back at Ime's offense through rose-colored glasses. The offense is what lost us the finals.

[Roy H.]

My first thought on this is that the problem was not when they switched on Tatum, it is when they doubled him, which was often in the playoffs.  I think he has gotten better at dealing with the double, not as good as Jimmy Butler, but better.  Scheme is an issue too though.  The rest of the team needs to be moving, not just standing around.

As to Porzingis, I absolutely think he is going to help tremendously.  Most of the year, we played Horford and 4 guards/wings.  Horford mostly stayed in the corner.  Porzingis is going to add much more versatility to the offense.  This should make it harder for teams to double Tatum (or Brown).

Celtics a better passing team under Mazzula than under Udoka.  We finished 7th in assists per game last season, 13th in Ime's season.  26.2 v 24.8

Assists per game doesn't necessarily equate to better passing, for whatever it's worth.  If you look at you at the ratio between assists and points, they were basically tied (4.50 points per assist last year, 4.51 points per assist under Ime).

[DefenseWinsChamps]

One of the things Porzingis is really good at is punishing switching defences. He has become really good at taking advantage of smaller guys being switched out onto him - can score in the post at will on those guys. He's a really intriguing match-up problem, because with his shooting touch he is a real perimeter spacer, but at 7'3" he obviously provides vertical spacing too, and he punishes switches.

Yeah.  There's a reason he was called a unicorn.  He's deadly in the paint, he can space, and he can be disruptive on defense.  I hope the coaching staff is spending all summer figuring out ways to maximize his skill set.

In the back of my head, I worry we'll see Joe use him like Horford, which means ignoring his inside skillset and focusing almost exclusively on the perimeter.  That would be a horrific misuse of skills for a 7'3" guy, but I haven't seen a lot of flexibility and adaptability in the past from Joe.

The one area I don't feel I have a good grasp on:  how is KP as a passer?

Like Rick Carlisle did towards the end of Zinger's time in Dallas.

Thing is, his floor spacing is what is most valuable to a winning team. He just isn't quite efficient enough and doesn't draw enough fouls to have his post game be a highlight of a team's offense. Yet, to this point, he has felt like he deserved to get post touches.

He does deserve post touches.  He also should operate as a floor spacer.  And from the elbow.

KP has an extremely versatile offensive game.  Sticking him in the corner relegates his game to a rich man's Grant Williams, which is wasting his skill set.

Floor spacing isn't about the corner. He could be in the corner some, but it's about being the screener up top. That gives him the ability to pop, roll, distribute, and hunt mismatches.

But again, part of the problem with him has always been that people assume he should do more (include Porzingis). The stats don't indicate that he is an highly efficient post scorer (until last year when he was good.

[No Nickname]

Miami was good at the delayed-double team.  They'd wait until there were 10 secs left on the shot clock, right as Tatum was about to *start* the offense (yes, we wait that long) and then they'd surprise him with the double-team.

Often he would react late, make a bad pass, or a pass to a teammate near halfcourt, and then Miami would recover and we'd have our #4 option trying to create with the shot clock at :05.

[gouki88]

One of the things Porzingis is really good at is punishing switching defences. He has become really good at taking advantage of smaller guys being switched out onto him - can score in the post at will on those guys. He's a really intriguing match-up problem, because with his shooting touch he is a real perimeter spacer, but at 7'3" he obviously provides vertical spacing too, and he punishes switches.

Yeah.  There's a reason he was called a unicorn.  He's deadly in the paint, he can space, and he can be disruptive on defense.  I hope the coaching staff is spending all summer figuring out ways to maximize his skill set.

In the back of my head, I worry we'll see Joe use him like Horford, which means ignoring his inside skillset and focusing almost exclusively on the perimeter.  That would be a horrific misuse of skills for a 7'3" guy, but I haven't seen a lot of flexibility and adaptability in the past from Joe.

The one area I don't feel I have a good grasp on:  how is KP as a passer?

Like Rick Carlisle did towards the end of Zinger's time in Dallas.

Thing is, his floor spacing is what is most valuable to a winning team. He just isn't quite efficient enough and doesn't draw enough fouls to have his post game be a highlight of a team's offense. Yet, to this point, he has felt like he deserved to get post touches.

He does deserve post touches.  He also should operate as a floor spacer.  And from the elbow.

KP has an extremely versatile offensive game.  Sticking him in the corner relegates his game to a rich man's Grant Williams, which is wasting his skill set.

Floor spacing isn't about the corner. He could be in the corner some, but it's about being the screener up top. That gives him the ability to pop, roll, distribute, and hunt mismatches.

But again, part of the problem with him has always been that people assume he should do more (include Porzingis). The stats don't indicate that he is an highly efficient post scorer (until last year when he was good.

I don't think his newly found post efficiency is an aberration though. I think it is a development. He looks stronger and heavier now than he has before, and I think he understands how to leverage his height and touch. A lot of his post scores seem to come from simply rising up over smaller defenders for short-range jump shots.

He's also drawn 6FTA per game over the last two seasons. I think that will help a lot insofar as being a different force to Al (Al never averaged more than 2 as a Celtic - 3.3 is his career high!!)

[obnoxiousmime]

One of the things Porzingis is really good at is punishing switching defences. He has become really good at taking advantage of smaller guys being switched out onto him - can score in the post at will on those guys. He's a really intriguing match-up problem, because with his shooting touch he is a real perimeter spacer, but at 7'3" he obviously provides vertical spacing too, and he punishes switches.

Yeah.  There's a reason he was called a unicorn.  He's deadly in the paint, he can space, and he can be disruptive on defense.  I hope the coaching staff is spending all summer figuring out ways to maximize his skill set.

In the back of my head, I worry we'll see Joe use him like Horford, which means ignoring his inside skillset and focusing almost exclusively on the perimeter.  That would be a horrific misuse of skills for a 7'3" guy, but I haven't seen a lot of flexibility and adaptability in the past from Joe.

The one area I don't feel I have a good grasp on:  how is KP as a passer?

Like Rick Carlisle did towards the end of Zinger's time in Dallas.

Thing is, his floor spacing is what is most valuable to a winning team. He just isn't quite efficient enough and doesn't draw enough fouls to have his post game be a highlight of a team's offense. Yet, to this point, he has felt like he deserved to get post touches.

He does deserve post touches.  He also should operate as a floor spacer.  And from the elbow.

KP has an extremely versatile offensive game.  Sticking him in the corner relegates his game to a rich man's Grant Williams, which is wasting his skill set.

Floor spacing isn't about the corner. He could be in the corner some, but it's about being the screener up top. That gives him the ability to pop, roll, distribute, and hunt mismatches.

But again, part of the problem with him has always been that people assume he should do more (include Porzingis). The stats don't indicate that he is an highly efficient post scorer (until last year when he was good.

I don't think his newly found post efficiency is an aberration though. I think it is a development. He looks stronger and heavier now than he has before, and I think he understands how to leverage his height and touch. A lot of his post scores seem to come from simply rising up over smaller defenders for short-range jump shots.

He's also drawn 6FTA per game over the last two seasons. I think that will help a lot insofar as being a different force to Al (Al never averaged more than 2 as a Celtic - 3.3 is his career high!!)

Yeah, he definitely made it a point in his presser to mention efficiency as a goal last season. I don't think it was really prompted by anything, he just brought it up himself. He talked about how he looked at his game and really concentrated on ways he could maximize his scoring. Maybe it was just part of the overall positive PR spin thing, but he did definitely have his best all-around season last year.

The one caveat is that a lot of it came from isolation and one-on-one scoring, which could mean more your turn/my turn and more need to find a balance between the big three.

[gouki88]

One of the things Porzingis is really good at is punishing switching defences. He has become really good at taking advantage of smaller guys being switched out onto him - can score in the post at will on those guys. He's a really intriguing match-up problem, because with his shooting touch he is a real perimeter spacer, but at 7'3" he obviously provides vertical spacing too, and he punishes switches.

Yeah.  There's a reason he was called a unicorn.  He's deadly in the paint, he can space, and he can be disruptive on defense.  I hope the coaching staff is spending all summer figuring out ways to maximize his skill set.

In the back of my head, I worry we'll see Joe use him like Horford, which means ignoring his inside skillset and focusing almost exclusively on the perimeter.  That would be a horrific misuse of skills for a 7'3" guy, but I haven't seen a lot of flexibility and adaptability in the past from Joe.

The one area I don't feel I have a good grasp on:  how is KP as a passer?

Like Rick Carlisle did towards the end of Zinger's time in Dallas.

Thing is, his floor spacing is what is most valuable to a winning team. He just isn't quite efficient enough and doesn't draw enough fouls to have his post game be a highlight of a team's offense. Yet, to this point, he has felt like he deserved to get post touches.

He does deserve post touches.  He also should operate as a floor spacer.  And from the elbow.

KP has an extremely versatile offensive game.  Sticking him in the corner relegates his game to a rich man's Grant Williams, which is wasting his skill set.

Floor spacing isn't about the corner. He could be in the corner some, but it's about being the screener up top. That gives him the ability to pop, roll, distribute, and hunt mismatches.

But again, part of the problem with him has always been that people assume he should do more (include Porzingis). The stats don't indicate that he is an highly efficient post scorer (until last year when he was good.

I don't think his newly found post efficiency is an aberration though. I think it is a development. He looks stronger and heavier now than he has before, and I think he understands how to leverage his height and touch. A lot of his post scores seem to come from simply rising up over smaller defenders for short-range jump shots.

He's also drawn 6FTA per game over the last two seasons. I think that will help a lot insofar as being a different force to Al (Al never averaged more than 2 as a Celtic - 3.3 is his career high!!)

Yeah, he definitely made it a point in his presser to mention efficiency as a goal last season. I don't think it was really prompted by anything, he just brought it up himself. He talked about how he looked at his game and really concentrated on ways he could maximize his scoring. Maybe it was just part of the overall positive PR spin thing, but he did definitely have his best all-around season last year.

The one caveat is that a lot of it came from isolation and one-on-one scoring, which could mean more your turn/my turn and more need to find a balance between the big three.

It did come from a lot of one-on-one, but I think that a lot of this was generated through PnR play. Which I think should translate, especially with Tatum running the offence similar to how Beal did.

The passing will be important to try and nurture though. The roles of our connectors (i.e., White, Horford, Brogdon types who will be secondary offensive players) is important

[cman88]

I think Horfords decline hurt us more than people think. and that's a big reason we got KP. I remember brad mentioning a few years ago alot of what we do is based on Horford. and we REALLY missed him in the 2 years Danny let him go until Brad brought him back.

Horford is still great, shut down embiid in the playoffs and despite the playoffs can still stroke it from deep. BUT hes more of a defense/3 point guy now.

So, I think it will suit him better taking grant williams role and KP taking the starter role. With his ability to shoot from all levels of the court and role to the basket I really think it's going to give a different dynamic to the offense and give ALOT of space to the Jays.

Teams couldn't really stop the PNR with tatum/Rob (although we kept going away from it for some reason) now imagine a lineup where you have Brogdon/Horford in the corners 2 guys who shot 40%+ from 3 during the season, Brown ready to cut to the basket and tatum running the PNR with KP.

thats going to be tough for teams to defend. Now, this is also about Mazulla and his new coaching staff running plays like that rather than having everyone stand around the 3 point line pass the ball like hot potatoes and then jack up a poor 3.

[dannyboy35]

My first thought on this is that the problem was not when they switched on Tatum, it is when they doubled him, which was often in the playoffs.  I think he has gotten better at dealing with the double, not as good as Jimmy Butler, but better.  Scheme is an issue too though.  The rest of the team needs to be moving, not just standing around.

As to Porzingis, I absolutely think he is going to help tremendously.  Most of the year, we played Horford and 4 guards/wings.  Horford mostly stayed in the corner.  Porzingis is going to add much more versatility to the offense.  This should make it harder for teams to double Tatum (or Brown).

Celtics a better passing team under Mazzula than under Udoka.  We finished 7th in assists per game last season, 13th in Ime's season.  26.2 v 24.8

Offensive execution under Udoka never got that advanced either.  I understand that it takes a while for it to get ingrained to the degree necessary to be able to execute at the NBA level.  We have not gotten there in either season in my view.  I do not feel the offensive execution was better under Mazzulla though, in spite of the assist numbers, rather I think it regressed a little.

But as to assists, didn't we learn with Rondo that assists can be a misleading stat?  Some assists come from one guy pounding the ball and are not indicative of good offense.  Others come from good team ball and player movement and are indicative of good offense.  Team assists are more revealing than individual assists as many of the best shots come after a few passes, not just one pass, but assists reflect only part of the story (like any stat).

I concede and have said that I feel Tatum in particular has improved in terms of dealing with the double team.  But the good shot out of a double team comes after 2-3 passes usually, not one pass, so it is not all about Tatum.  I am hoping that with the team able to run it back with largely the same team and same head coach, and with assistants who want to be here, that the team and the coaching staff can go to the next level in terms of offensive execution and scheme.  If they do, the assist numbers will take care of themselves.

I want to see the ball and players moving.  The last couple of seasons we move the ball OK but the off ball player movement is limited and predictable.  Teams can throw a double at Tatum and know the rest of the team is going to stand around.  We are easy to defend.  We often overcome that with raw talent, thankfully, but we need to add that next level of nuance to our offensive scheme, and the execute it.  I think Porzingis is going to help with that.  The coaches need to teach/work that.  And of course, the players need to buy into it and execute it, especially at the end of games.

This is what has prevented us from winning a championship the last two seasons.

  Agree. The #1 reason by a mile .