BR Trade Idea: Ayton to Boston

[Phantom255x]

No, we need pieces to trade for Beal as our 1st priority.

No to Ayton, and no to Beal as well

[DefenseWinsChamps]

Better idea:

Celtics receive: Collins, Crowder into TE (could be Shamet, Saric, and/or Payne instead)
Celtics trade: Theis, G Williams, Nesmith, Stauskas, TE, 2024 1st

Hawks receive: Ayton (s/t max), Nesmith
Hawks trade: Collins, Capella, 2023 and 2022 1sts

Suns receive: Capella, G Williams, 2023 Hawks 1st, 2024 Boston 1st
Suns trade: Ayton, Crowder

Thunder receive: Theis, Stauskas, 2022 Hawks 1st (16)
Thunder trade: future top 55 protected 2nd

Celtics:
PG: Smart, Pritchard
SG: Brown, White
SF: Tatum, Crowder
PF: Collins, Horford
C: Timelord

That's an excellent 9-man rotation

[Moranis]

What an utterly awful proposal. Expect nothing less from B/R though.

I would probably not trade Rob for Ayton straight up, let alone Rob and our 6th man for Ayton. Yuck

Let's say you're Brad, and the entire medical staff comes up to you and says "Unfortunately we believe that Rob will be dealing with debilitating injuries for the rest of his career". Would you still think this is a bad trade? Maybe I'm a bit too high on Ayton, but I think you would need to at least consider it. He could be that elusive 3rd star, while also securing our big man for the future.

I think you are too high on Ayton. He can't pass, he's a mediocre defender, and he simply refuses to shoot the ball enough. His highest FGAs was 14.9 when he played half a season on a below .500 team.

In a vacuum I don't mind him. He's super efficient (almost as efficient as Rob) and is one of the elite rebounders in the league. But I just do not think he has the mentality required to be a third star, and if he is demanding max money, as I've seen reported, then I think he's mad.

I think Williams is the better player due to his defence and passing, and he would cost a fraction of the money that Ayton wants. Sure, if his condition was hypothetically debilitating, it would suck. But owing Rob $48m over the next 4 seasons is fine by me, even if he's limited to 25mpg or 60 games a season. Over the last two seasons, Ayton hasn't been much healthier than Rob.

How many shots do you want your 3rd star to take?  I mean someone like Klay Thompson, who has been the 2nd option a lot, only averages around 17 attempts in his prime years.  He only had 18 this year in his microwave role and was under 17 in the playoffs as the 2nd option, while Wiggins was right around 14 as the 3rd option.  Russell for the Wolves was at 15 as the 3rd option for the Wolves.  And I used those guys because they've all been all stars.   

It's relative to what they provide on offence beyond scoring. Ayton provides absolutely nothing as a passer, and is one of the most pathetic free throw generators in the entire league compared to what he should be capable of. He either needs to score more (ideally from drawing fouls), improve his passing, or go back to his old offensive rebounding numbers.

He is a 3rd player for a reason.  Those guys aren't complete players except in very rare circumstances (a guy like Wiggins is much more the exception, but he is also a pretty passive player).  You seem to be expecting Ayton to have 1st or 2nd player skills, yet realize he is a 3rd guy.  3rd guys are most typically guys like Tobias Harris i.e. ok scorers but very flawed overall or are defense guys with little offense but by shear playing time are the 3rd offensive option i.e. Bam, Gobert, etc. (Smart is probably in this category as well, though as a ball handler he isn't the same as the big guys). 

Ayton is who he is at this point, which is a 17/10 player with a nice efficiency.  As a 3rd option that is fine.  Maybe you get a little growth still in a different system and he is more like a 2.5 type player (like Wiggins), but by and large you are going to get a pretty consistent stat line from Ayton.  Now the real question is, is that type of player worth 30+ million a year.  That is a much more difficult question to answer.  I'm not sure he is, but at least you know what you are getting from him.

But that is the issue - he has literally all the tools to be an Embiid-like physical force on offence, yet chooses not to.

or maybe he doesn't.  There is a reason guys like Embiid are rare.  Ayton is a good solid 3rd option. That is what he has been for 4 years now.  The Suns are also better when he plays as opposed to when he sits so he contributes to winning.

But this is why he is even available. Because he wants the max but is a 3rdplayer type player. If he had Embiid's personality he would have been extended last summer and wouldn't be potentially available

[gouki88]

What an utterly awful proposal. Expect nothing less from B/R though.

I would probably not trade Rob for Ayton straight up, let alone Rob and our 6th man for Ayton. Yuck

Let's say you're Brad, and the entire medical staff comes up to you and says "Unfortunately we believe that Rob will be dealing with debilitating injuries for the rest of his career". Would you still think this is a bad trade? Maybe I'm a bit too high on Ayton, but I think you would need to at least consider it. He could be that elusive 3rd star, while also securing our big man for the future.

I think you are too high on Ayton. He can't pass, he's a mediocre defender, and he simply refuses to shoot the ball enough. His highest FGAs was 14.9 when he played half a season on a below .500 team.

In a vacuum I don't mind him. He's super efficient (almost as efficient as Rob) and is one of the elite rebounders in the league. But I just do not think he has the mentality required to be a third star, and if he is demanding max money, as I've seen reported, then I think he's mad.

I think Williams is the better player due to his defence and passing, and he would cost a fraction of the money that Ayton wants. Sure, if his condition was hypothetically debilitating, it would suck. But owing Rob $48m over the next 4 seasons is fine by me, even if he's limited to 25mpg or 60 games a season. Over the last two seasons, Ayton hasn't been much healthier than Rob.

How many shots do you want your 3rd star to take?  I mean someone like Klay Thompson, who has been the 2nd option a lot, only averages around 17 attempts in his prime years.  He only had 18 this year in his microwave role and was under 17 in the playoffs as the 2nd option, while Wiggins was right around 14 as the 3rd option.  Russell for the Wolves was at 15 as the 3rd option for the Wolves.  And I used those guys because they've all been all stars.   

It's relative to what they provide on offence beyond scoring. Ayton provides absolutely nothing as a passer, and is one of the most pathetic free throw generators in the entire league compared to what he should be capable of. He either needs to score more (ideally from drawing fouls), improve his passing, or go back to his old offensive rebounding numbers.

He is a 3rd player for a reason.  Those guys aren't complete players except in very rare circumstances (a guy like Wiggins is much more the exception, but he is also a pretty passive player).  You seem to be expecting Ayton to have 1st or 2nd player skills, yet realize he is a 3rd guy.  3rd guys are most typically guys like Tobias Harris i.e. ok scorers but very flawed overall or are defense guys with little offense but by shear playing time are the 3rd offensive option i.e. Bam, Gobert, etc. (Smart is probably in this category as well, though as a ball handler he isn't the same as the big guys). 

Ayton is who he is at this point, which is a 17/10 player with a nice efficiency.  As a 3rd option that is fine.  Maybe you get a little growth still in a different system and he is more like a 2.5 type player (like Wiggins), but by and large you are going to get a pretty consistent stat line from Ayton.  Now the real question is, is that type of player worth 30+ million a year.  That is a much more difficult question to answer.  I'm not sure he is, but at least you know what you are getting from him.

But that is the issue - he has literally all the tools to be an Embiid-like physical force on offence, yet chooses not to.

or maybe he doesn't.  There is a reason guys like Embiid are rare.  Ayton is a good solid 3rd option. That is what he has been for 4 years now.  The Suns are also better when he plays as opposed to when he sits so he contributes to winning.

But this is why he is even available. Because he wants the max but is a 3rdplayer type player. If he had Embiid's personality he would have been extended last summer and wouldn't be potentially available

Physically he does though. 7'1, 260lbs or so, 7'5 wingspan, 40+ inch vertical, soft touch around the rim and good at shooting free throws. This is why he was the #1 pick. He has failed to do anything more than that because of his mentality, which is why I would be apprehensive about giving up TL for him (an equal player) and then having to pay Ayton over double the amount we are paying TL.

[Moranis]

What an utterly awful proposal. Expect nothing less from B/R though.

I would probably not trade Rob for Ayton straight up, let alone Rob and our 6th man for Ayton. Yuck

Let's say you're Brad, and the entire medical staff comes up to you and says "Unfortunately we believe that Rob will be dealing with debilitating injuries for the rest of his career". Would you still think this is a bad trade? Maybe I'm a bit too high on Ayton, but I think you would need to at least consider it. He could be that elusive 3rd star, while also securing our big man for the future.

I think you are too high on Ayton. He can't pass, he's a mediocre defender, and he simply refuses to shoot the ball enough. His highest FGAs was 14.9 when he played half a season on a below .500 team.

In a vacuum I don't mind him. He's super efficient (almost as efficient as Rob) and is one of the elite rebounders in the league. But I just do not think he has the mentality required to be a third star, and if he is demanding max money, as I've seen reported, then I think he's mad.

I think Williams is the better player due to his defence and passing, and he would cost a fraction of the money that Ayton wants. Sure, if his condition was hypothetically debilitating, it would suck. But owing Rob $48m over the next 4 seasons is fine by me, even if he's limited to 25mpg or 60 games a season. Over the last two seasons, Ayton hasn't been much healthier than Rob.

How many shots do you want your 3rd star to take?  I mean someone like Klay Thompson, who has been the 2nd option a lot, only averages around 17 attempts in his prime years.  He only had 18 this year in his microwave role and was under 17 in the playoffs as the 2nd option, while Wiggins was right around 14 as the 3rd option.  Russell for the Wolves was at 15 as the 3rd option for the Wolves.  And I used those guys because they've all been all stars.   

It's relative to what they provide on offence beyond scoring. Ayton provides absolutely nothing as a passer, and is one of the most pathetic free throw generators in the entire league compared to what he should be capable of. He either needs to score more (ideally from drawing fouls), improve his passing, or go back to his old offensive rebounding numbers.

He is a 3rd player for a reason.  Those guys aren't complete players except in very rare circumstances (a guy like Wiggins is much more the exception, but he is also a pretty passive player).  You seem to be expecting Ayton to have 1st or 2nd player skills, yet realize he is a 3rd guy.  3rd guys are most typically guys like Tobias Harris i.e. ok scorers but very flawed overall or are defense guys with little offense but by shear playing time are the 3rd offensive option i.e. Bam, Gobert, etc. (Smart is probably in this category as well, though as a ball handler he isn't the same as the big guys). 

Ayton is who he is at this point, which is a 17/10 player with a nice efficiency.  As a 3rd option that is fine.  Maybe you get a little growth still in a different system and he is more like a 2.5 type player (like Wiggins), but by and large you are going to get a pretty consistent stat line from Ayton.  Now the real question is, is that type of player worth 30+ million a year.  That is a much more difficult question to answer.  I'm not sure he is, but at least you know what you are getting from him.

But that is the issue - he has literally all the tools to be an Embiid-like physical force on offence, yet chooses not to.

or maybe he doesn't.  There is a reason guys like Embiid are rare.  Ayton is a good solid 3rd option. That is what he has been for 4 years now.  The Suns are also better when he plays as opposed to when he sits so he contributes to winning.

But this is why he is even available. Because he wants the max but is a 3rdplayer type player. If he had Embiid's personality he would have been extended last summer and wouldn't be potentially available

Physically he does though. 7'1, 260lbs or so, 7'5 wingspan, 40+ inch vertical, soft touch around the rim and good at shooting free throws. This is why he was the #1 pick. He has failed to do anything more than that because of his mentality, which is why I would be apprehensive about giving up TL for him (an equal player) and then having to pay Ayton over double the amount we are paying TL.

Oh I'm not saying I'd do the trade, though I'd consider it because of Rob's health.  I just don't think he is going to stay healthy, where I expect Ayton to be healthier (though he has missed plenty of games himself).  I don't think Rob and him are equal players though.  Ayton is better. 

That physical description fits pretty closely with a lot of guys in the league though.  Guys like Embiid are the exception not the rule. 

[DefenseWinsChamps]

Better idea:

Celtics receive: Collins, Crowder into TE (could be Shamet, Saric, and/or Payne instead)
Celtics trade: Theis, G Williams, Nesmith, Stauskas, TE, 2024 1st

Hawks receive: Ayton (s/t max), Nesmith
Hawks trade: Collins, Capella, 2023 and 2022 1sts

Suns receive: Capella, G Williams, 2023 Hawks 1st, 2024 Boston 1st
Suns trade: Ayton, Crowder

Thunder receive: Theis, Stauskas, 2022 Hawks 1st (16)
Thunder trade: future top 55 protected 2nd

Celtics:
PG: Smart, Pritchard
SG: Brown, White
SF: Tatum, Crowder
PF: Collins, Horford
C: Timelord

That's an excellent 9-man rotation

Then we can take Korkmaz and Thybulle into the rest of our TE for two future seconds (no way is Morey making a rival contender better). Toughness, versatility, scoring, length, athleticism.