Author Topic: Is anyone else pinching themselves because of how well the team is playing?  (Read 4686 times)

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Online jambr380

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It's really incredible and I did NOT predict this in any way. Strategically, I'm looking at the standings and think we could end up in the #2 seed and play Brooklyn with Durant, Irving and Simmons in the first round. Always the pessimist in me. But that would be a bad first round match-up. You'd much rather play Cleveland, Toronto or Chicago.

I've been saying this for a month, and I'll keep it up -- Brooklyn will not be the 7th seed.  They'll be the 8th seed or they'll miss the playoffs.  I think people worry too much about Brooklyn in general, but the only reason to worry about them in the first round is if you think the Celtics will catch the Heat.
agree - Brooklyn is looking like it'll lock in at 8 for the play-in.  they should win that and whoever ends up with the 7th seed figures to win their game (I think Toronto passes both Chicago and Cleveland to get to 5 and the weaker performer of Chi/Cle drops to the playin) so Brooklyn stays 8.  Brooklyn at 8 means they get Miami in the first real round of the playoffs.  Boston gets either Chi or Cle which are the 2 weakest teams in the playoffs this year (or at least this time of the year)

That's not how the play-in works, though. 7 plays 8 and 9 plays 10. The winner of 7/8 gets the 7th seed and the winner of 9/10 plays the loser of 7/8 for the 8th seed. Meaning, BKN would have to lose at least one play-in game to drop to 8 and lose both to fall out of the playoffs entirely.

Looking at the standings, CHA is actually right on their heels at just a game behind. ATL could have been worrisome (2 games behind), but Collins is out for at least a couple of weeks, so they'll likely just stay 10th. If CHA overtakes BKN, it'll literally be impossible for BKN to be anything but the 8th seed - and it'll take two wins for them to even get that.

Online Moranis

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It's really incredible and I did NOT predict this in any way. Strategically, I'm looking at the standings and think we could end up in the #2 seed and play Brooklyn with Durant, Irving and Simmons in the first round. Always the pessimist in me. But that would be a bad first round match-up. You'd much rather play Cleveland, Toronto or Chicago.

I've been saying this for a month, and I'll keep it up -- Brooklyn will not be the 7th seed.  They'll be the 8th seed or they'll miss the playoffs.  I think people worry too much about Brooklyn in general, but the only reason to worry about them in the first round is if you think the Celtics will catch the Heat.
agree - Brooklyn is looking like it'll lock in at 8 for the play-in.  they should win that and whoever ends up with the 7th seed figures to win their game (I think Toronto passes both Chicago and Cleveland to get to 5 and the weaker performer of Chi/Cle drops to the playin) so Brooklyn stays 8.  Brooklyn at 8 means they get Miami in the first real round of the playoffs.  Boston gets either Chi or Cle which are the 2 weakest teams in the playoffs this year (or at least this time of the year)
You have this wrong.  The 7th and 8th teams play each other and the winner ends up as the 7th seed.  The loser of that game then hosts the winner of the 9/10 game and the winner of that game is the 8th seed.  So if Brooklyn ends up in 8th, they will play whoever is 7th on 7's floor and the winner ends up 7th.  I just don't think Charlotte or Atlanta is going to catch Brooklyn for 8th and if 7 is anyone other than Toronto that means Irving plays in that game, but even if he doesn't the Nets still have Durant and maybe even Simmons by then.  I would not bet against Durant in a winner take all game, at least against whoever is the 7th seed.  Durant will be BY FAR the best player on the floor in that game.
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Offline angryguy77

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Maybe the stats will point to my observation being wrong, but from what I've seen is they're playing much smarter ball. I've complained about this for years under Brad how they just seemed undisciplined and 3's were the first option.. Now they seem to be playing much better looking for higher % shots.
Back to wanting Joe fired.

Offline ozgod

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Maybe the stats will point to my observation being wrong, but from what I've seen is they're playing much smarter ball. I've complained about this for years under Brad how they just seemed undisciplined and 3's were the first option.. Now they seem to be playing much better looking for higher % shots.

I was curious so I looked the stats up. This won't tell you what the FIRST shot they take each possession was, but it does tell you how many threes they attempted, made and what rate they made them. I also looked up that their 3FGA was as a % of their total FGA, to try to get a sense for how many 3s they were making as a % of their total shots. I also looked at the monthly splits for this season to see if anything had trended better over time.

Interestingly, while their overall average 3s taken has dropped by 1 to 12.8 this season, it's a bigger % of their total FGA. I could have looked up the # of 2s to give us a fuller picture but it's a manual process so I left it out for now. The data suggests there's really not a lot of difference in their overall 3s shot making profile, in fact the last couple of months we've actually shot worse from 3 than we had earlier in the season when we were mad at them and wanting the team blown up.

Code: [Select]
Year 3FG 3FGA/g 3FG% 3s as % of Overall FGA
2016-17 12.0 33.4 .359 39%
2017-18 11.5 30.4 .377 35%
2018-19 12.6 34.5 .365 38%
2019-20 12.6 34.5 .364 38%
2020-21 13.6 36.4 .374 41%
2021-22* 12.7 36.8 .344 42%

*
Oct-21 13.0 40.5 .321 42%
Nov-21 11.5 35.0 .328 40%
Dec-21 12.5 36.4 .342 42%
Jan-22 13.0 36.2 .359 43%
Feb-22 13.4 38.3 .351 43%
Mar-22 13.1 36.8 .357 42%

So why the discrepancy between the eye test and the actual data? It could be recency bias...the last 2 games we shot 55% and 48% from 3, which has made us forget the games vs Detroit and Dallas where we shot 18% and 24%. More likely it's because we've been winning, because our defense has really forced teams to shoot poorly from the perimeter against us - in the last 2 months teams playing us have shot 31% from 3. Overall teams are shooting 42% against us so we're really making them work for their shots and they're not getting good quality shots.

Code: [Select]
Year Mth Count of G FG% 3FG% oFG% o3FG%
2021 10 6 0.431 0.321 0.441 0.364
11 15 0.437 0.328 0.431 0.322
12 15 0.453 0.342 0.450 0.358
2022 1 16 0.463 0.359 0.426 0.341
2 12 0.481 0.351 0.399 0.310
3 8 0.480 0.357 0.429 0.311
Grand Total 72 0.458 0.344 0.429 0.334

And something my eye test agrees with, as you alluded to, is the quality of the 3s the Cs are taking is a lot better - they swing the ball around with a purpose, rather then just aimlessly, and someone attacks a pick and roll or a closeout with purpose, attacking the rim to draw defenders before swinging it out for a better quality 3 than a pull up. Or if someone closes out, instead of just settling for a 3 someone like GWill or White or Smart will put the ball on the floor and drive to the basket and either get a high percentage rim shot or swing it to the opposite corner when they have drawn the help. It's those types of plays that we notice, even if the overall % of 3s we are taking hasn't changed that much.

At the risk of providing too much data, Smart is a good example - look at how his shot profile has changed over the year, and as a result so has his efficiency:

Code: [Select]
Split Value G FG FGA 3P 3PA 3P% 3s % of total AST/g TOV/g PPG
Smart October 5 12 47 8 34 0.235 72% 4.8 2.4 7.4
November 15 66 153 21 67 0.313 44% 5.9 1.7 12.4
December 13 55 134 14 52 0.269 39% 5.2 2.2 11.6
January 10 38 90 20 49 0.408 54% 5.5 2.3 11.5
February 10 42 91 18 51 0.353 56% 5.2 1.8 13.0
March 9 47 105 18 45 0.400 43% 7.4 2.2 14.6
« Last Edit: March 21, 2022, 11:46:23 AM by ozgod »
Any odd typos are because I suck at typing on an iPhone :D


Offline slamtheking

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It's really incredible and I did NOT predict this in any way. Strategically, I'm looking at the standings and think we could end up in the #2 seed and play Brooklyn with Durant, Irving and Simmons in the first round. Always the pessimist in me. But that would be a bad first round match-up. You'd much rather play Cleveland, Toronto or Chicago.

I've been saying this for a month, and I'll keep it up -- Brooklyn will not be the 7th seed.  They'll be the 8th seed or they'll miss the playoffs.  I think people worry too much about Brooklyn in general, but the only reason to worry about them in the first round is if you think the Celtics will catch the Heat.
agree - Brooklyn is looking like it'll lock in at 8 for the play-in.  they should win that and whoever ends up with the 7th seed figures to win their game (I think Toronto passes both Chicago and Cleveland to get to 5 and the weaker performer of Chi/Cle drops to the playin) so Brooklyn stays 8.  Brooklyn at 8 means they get Miami in the first real round of the playoffs.  Boston gets either Chi or Cle which are the 2 weakest teams in the playoffs this year (or at least this time of the year)
You have this wrong.  The 7th and 8th teams play each other and the winner ends up as the 7th seed.  The loser of that game then hosts the winner of the 9/10 game and the winner of that game is the 8th seed.  So if Brooklyn ends up in 8th, they will play whoever is 7th on 7's floor and the winner ends up 7th.  I just don't think Charlotte or Atlanta is going to catch Brooklyn for 8th and if 7 is anyone other than Toronto that means Irving plays in that game, but even if he doesn't the Nets still have Durant and maybe even Simmons by then.  I would not bet against Durant in a winner take all game, at least against whoever is the 7th seed.  Durant will be BY FAR the best player on the floor in that game.
thanks for the clarification.  must have my head up my butt for forgetting this.  appreciate you pulling it out for me.  TP.

with that knowledge in hand and sticking with my premise that either Cleveland or Chicago will end up as the 7 seed for the play-in, Brooklyn even with just Durant would be the likely winner.  if I'm wrong about Toronto getting to the 5 or 6 seed, I like their chances against Brooklyn if Toronto is full healthy since they have enough talent to make Brooklyn really work on offense and defense.  Still amazes me that Toronto didn't have a better year with that roster.

However, IF Brooklyn doesn't beat the 7 seed (very big IF), the winner of Atlanta/Charlotte could surprise them.  Trae could have one of his ridiculously hot games (would need a lot of support to win) or Charlotte's underdogs could pull it together and have a hot shooting game (Ball, Rozier, Bridges would make Brooklyn work on D).
« Last Edit: March 21, 2022, 11:46:48 AM by slamtheking »

Offline Kernewek

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It's really incredible and I did NOT predict this in any way. Strategically, I'm looking at the standings and think we could end up in the #2 seed and play Brooklyn with Durant, Irving and Simmons in the first round. Always the pessimist in me. But that would be a bad first round match-up. You'd much rather play Cleveland, Toronto or Chicago.

I've been saying this for a month, and I'll keep it up -- Brooklyn will not be the 7th seed.  They'll be the 8th seed or they'll miss the playoffs.  I think people worry too much about Brooklyn in general, but the only reason to worry about them in the first round is if you think the Celtics will catch the Heat.
agree - Brooklyn is looking like it'll lock in at 8 for the play-in.  they should win that and whoever ends up with the 7th seed figures to win their game (I think Toronto passes both Chicago and Cleveland to get to 5 and the weaker performer of Chi/Cle drops to the playin) so Brooklyn stays 8.  Brooklyn at 8 means they get Miami in the first real round of the playoffs.  Boston gets either Chi or Cle which are the 2 weakest teams in the playoffs this year (or at least this time of the year)
You have this wrong.  The 7th and 8th teams play each other and the winner ends up as the 7th seed.  The loser of that game then hosts the winner of the 9/10 game and the winner of that game is the 8th seed.  So if Brooklyn ends up in 8th, they will play whoever is 7th on 7's floor and the winner ends up 7th.  I just don't think Charlotte or Atlanta is going to catch Brooklyn for 8th and if 7 is anyone other than Toronto that means Irving plays in that game, but even if he doesn't the Nets still have Durant and maybe even Simmons by then.  I would not bet against Durant in a winner take all game, at least against whoever is the 7th seed.  Durant will be BY FAR the best player on the floor in that game.
thanks for the clarification.  must have my head up my butt for forgetting this.  appreciate you pulling it out for me.  TP.

with that knowledge in hand and sticking with my premise that either Cleveland or Chicago will end up as the 7 seed for the play-in, Brooklyn even with just Durant would be the likely winner.  if I'm wrong about Toronto getting to the 5 or 6 seed, I like their chances against Brooklyn if Toronto is full healthy since they have enough talent to make Brooklyn really work on offense and defense.  Still amazes me that Toronto didn't have a better year with that roster.

However, IF Brooklyn doesn't beat the 7 seed (very big IF), the winner of Atlanta/Charlotte could surprise them.  Trae could have one of his ridiculously hot games (would need a lot of support to win) or Charlotte's underdogs could pull it together and have a hot shooting game (Ball, Rozier, Bridges would make Brooklyn work on D).

Don't forget that when Ben Simmons is on the court Trae Young might as well be Gary Payton.

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Offline smokeablount

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It's really incredible and I did NOT predict this in any way. Strategically, I'm looking at the standings and think we could end up in the #2 seed and play Brooklyn with Durant, Irving and Simmons in the first round. Always the pessimist in me. But that would be a bad first round match-up. You'd much rather play Cleveland, Toronto or Chicago.

I've been saying this for a month, and I'll keep it up -- Brooklyn will not be the 7th seed.  They'll be the 8th seed or they'll miss the playoffs.  I think people worry too much about Brooklyn in general, but the only reason to worry about them in the first round is if you think the Celtics will catch the Heat.
agree - Brooklyn is looking like it'll lock in at 8 for the play-in.  they should win that and whoever ends up with the 7th seed figures to win their game (I think Toronto passes both Chicago and Cleveland to get to 5 and the weaker performer of Chi/Cle drops to the playin) so Brooklyn stays 8.  Brooklyn at 8 means they get Miami in the first real round of the playoffs.  Boston gets either Chi or Cle which are the 2 weakest teams in the playoffs this year (or at least this time of the year)
You have this wrong.  The 7th and 8th teams play each other and the winner ends up as the 7th seed.  The loser of that game then hosts the winner of the 9/10 game and the winner of that game is the 8th seed.  So if Brooklyn ends up in 8th, they will play whoever is 7th on 7's floor and the winner ends up 7th.  I just don't think Charlotte or Atlanta is going to catch Brooklyn for 8th and if 7 is anyone other than Toronto that means Irving plays in that game, but even if he doesn't the Nets still have Durant and maybe even Simmons by then.  I would not bet against Durant in a winner take all game, at least against whoever is the 7th seed.  Durant will be BY FAR the best player on the floor in that game.
thanks for the clarification.  must have my head up my butt for forgetting this.  appreciate you pulling it out for me.  TP.

with that knowledge in hand and sticking with my premise that either Cleveland or Chicago will end up as the 7 seed for the play-in, Brooklyn even with just Durant would be the likely winner.  if I'm wrong about Toronto getting to the 5 or 6 seed, I like their chances against Brooklyn if Toronto is full healthy since they have enough talent to make Brooklyn really work on offense and defense.  Still amazes me that Toronto didn't have a better year with that roster.

However, IF Brooklyn doesn't beat the 7 seed (very big IF), the winner of Atlanta/Charlotte could surprise them.  Trae could have one of his ridiculously hot games (would need a lot of support to win) or Charlotte's underdogs could pull it together and have a hot shooting game (Ball, Rozier, Bridges would make Brooklyn work on D).

The case for Brooklyn as the #8 seed in the playoffs is that Charlotte passes BK in the standings and BK finishes 9th.
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Offline angryguy77

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Maybe the stats will point to my observation being wrong, but from what I've seen is they're playing much smarter ball. I've complained about this for years under Brad how they just seemed undisciplined and 3's were the first option.. Now they seem to be playing much better looking for higher % shots.

I was curious so I looked the stats up. This won't tell you what the FIRST shot they take each possession was, but it does tell you how many threes they attempted, made and what rate they made them. I also looked up that their 3FGA was as a % of their total FGA, to try to get a sense for how many 3s they were making as a % of their total shots. I also looked at the monthly splits for this season to see if anything had trended better over time.

Interestingly, while their overall average 3s taken has dropped by 1 to 12.8 this season, it's a bigger % of their total FGA. I could have looked up the # of 2s to give us a fuller picture but it's a manual process so I left it out for now. The data suggests there's really not a lot of difference in their overall 3s shot making profile, in fact the last couple of months we've actually shot worse from 3 than we had earlier in the season when we were mad at them and wanting the team blown up.

Code: [Select]
Year 3FG 3FGA/g 3FG% 3s as % of Overall FGA
2016-17 12.0 33.4 .359 39%
2017-18 11.5 30.4 .377 35%
2018-19 12.6 34.5 .365 38%
2019-20 12.6 34.5 .364 38%
2020-21 13.6 36.4 .374 41%
2021-22* 12.7 36.8 .344 42%

*
Oct-21 13.0 40.5 .321 42%
Nov-21 11.5 35.0 .328 40%
Dec-21 12.5 36.4 .342 42%
Jan-22 13.0 36.2 .359 43%
Feb-22 13.4 38.3 .351 43%
Mar-22 13.1 36.8 .357 42%

So why the discrepancy between the eye test and the actual data? It could be recency bias...the last 2 games we shot 55% and 48% from 3, which has made us forget the games vs Detroit and Dallas where we shot 18% and 24%. More likely it's because we've been winning, because our defense has really forced teams to shoot poorly from the perimeter against us - in the last 2 months teams playing us have shot 31% from 3. Overall teams are shooting 42% against us so we're really making them work for their shots and they're not getting good quality shots.

Code: [Select]
Year Mth Count of G FG% 3FG% oFG% o3FG%
2021 10 6 0.431 0.321 0.441 0.364
11 15 0.437 0.328 0.431 0.322
12 15 0.453 0.342 0.450 0.358
2022 1 16 0.463 0.359 0.426 0.341
2 12 0.481 0.351 0.399 0.310
3 8 0.480 0.357 0.429 0.311
Grand Total 72 0.458 0.344 0.429 0.334

And something my eye test agrees with, as you alluded to, is the quality of the 3s the Cs are taking is a lot better - they swing the ball around with a purpose, rather then just aimlessly, and someone attacks a pick and roll or a closeout with purpose, attacking the rim to draw defenders before swinging it out for a better quality 3 than a pull up. Or if someone closes out, instead of just settling for a 3 someone like GWill or White or Smart will put the ball on the floor and drive to the basket and either get a high percentage rim shot or swing it to the opposite corner when they have drawn the help. It's those types of plays that we notice, even if the overall % of 3s we are taking hasn't changed that much.

At the risk of providing too much data, Smart is a good example - look at how his shot profile has changed over the year, and as a result so has his efficiency:

Code: [Select]
Split Value G FG FGA 3P 3PA 3P% 3s % of total AST/g TOV/g PPG
Smart October 5 12 47 8 34 0.235 72% 4.8 2.4 7.4
November 15 66 153 21 67 0.313 44% 5.9 1.7 12.4
December 13 55 134 14 52 0.269 39% 5.2 2.2 11.6
January 10 38 90 20 49 0.408 54% 5.5 2.3 11.5
February 10 42 91 18 51 0.353 56% 5.2 1.8 13.0
March 9 47 105 18 45 0.400 43% 7.4 2.2 14.6


Thanks for the info! That part I bolded I think might explain it. The attempts don't seemed to be forced like they were in the past.
Again, thanks for diving in.
Back to wanting Joe fired.