Well done Brad

[Walker Wiggle]

Do people know on this forum realize that, other than the three games he’s played the Celtics, Fournier has been a very ineffective player for the Knicks this year?

Also, do they realize that extending Richardson to next year had as much or more to do with tradable salaries the Celtics can package for a max player as it had to do with a fundamental assessment of Richardson as a player?

[Moranis]

When talking about outside shooting, why do people often talking about 3PT%, but completely ignore volume?

Shooting a high percentage at a large volume is significantly more valuable than shooting the same percentage at lower volume, no?  Both because it translates to more direct points, but also because it stretches the floor and opens up offensive opportunities for others.  The threat of a three is an important part of an offense.

Fournier was shooting less attempts in Boston last year, and would be even fewer this year (given the injuries to Brown, Smart, and Tatum which accelerated his p.t. last year).  In his 6 games off the bench, Fournier was shooting 4.7 3's a game and hitting at 39.7% last year for Boston.  It was only when the injuries to other wings happened that he moved into the starting lineup and both his attempts and percentage went up last year (up to 6.7 and 49.3% as a starter in 10 games).  His role in NY is similar to his role as a starter in Boston, but he wasn't going to be a starter in Boston this year.  He was going to be a back-up like Richardson and thus while he may have shot the ball a bit more frequently, it would have only been a bit more frequently.  For a further comparison, Richardson, in a similar role in Miami (i.e. a starter and a main offensive focal point), was shooting over 6 3's a game.  Fournier is a better shooter than Richardson in a vacuum, but the volume discrepancy is by and large a result of role and opportunities. 

Also, Boston was 1.4 points per 100 possessions better with Fournier in the game last year.  This year with Richardson in the game they are 2.2 points per 100 possessions better and that is with a worse team overall. 

The simple reality is, Richardson is much better suited to come off the bench as a 3 and D specialist with more limited offensive opportunities, because Richardson is a much better defender and does just as well when he isn't a focal point offensively.  Fournier plays better with more opportunity, but can't defend well and thus is not a very good bench player.  Fournier also isn't a good enough player to be more of a focal point and the record of team's shows this i.e. when he is a top 3 shot taker his team isn't very good and when he isn't a top 3 shot taker, he plays worse, but his teams have been better, and you can't pay that guy 18+ million dollars to be a bench player.  That just isn't sound money management or value assessment.

Fournier should have been resigned, and he should have been the starter.

Timelord / Horford / Kanter
Tatum / Williams
Brown / Richardson
Fournier / Romeo or Nesmith
Smart / Schroder / Pritchard

That would have given us three scorers, with Timelord and Smart focused on defense and ball movement.  It's a much better balanced team, allowing everyone to play to their strengths.

And Boston would be worse with that lineup because that is not a role a winning team should have Fournier in.  He isn't good enough to be a 3rd offensive option.  It just isn't his role.  He is best suited as a shooter off the bench.  Those guys are valuable, but they aren't 18 million a year a valuable.  He should be someone like Otto Porter, Jr. in Golden State.  That is Fournier's sweet spot and bread and butter.

Nonsense.  Fournier hasn’t consistently come off the bench since he was in Denver, back in 2014.

and Orlando had 1 winning season.  Fournier should not be a starter.  He isn't a good enough basketball player to be a starter for a good team.

[Moranis]

When talking about outside shooting, why do people often talking about 3PT%, but completely ignore volume?

Shooting a high percentage at a large volume is significantly more valuable than shooting the same percentage at lower volume, no?  Both because it translates to more direct points, but also because it stretches the floor and opens up offensive opportunities for others.  The threat of a three is an important part of an offense.

Fournier was shooting less attempts in Boston last year, and would be even fewer this year (given the injuries to Brown, Smart, and Tatum which accelerated his p.t. last year).  In his 6 games off the bench, Fournier was shooting 4.7 3's a game and hitting at 39.7% last year for Boston.  It was only when the injuries to other wings happened that he moved into the starting lineup and both his attempts and percentage went up last year (up to 6.7 and 49.3% as a starter in 10 games).  His role in NY is similar to his role as a starter in Boston, but he wasn't going to be a starter in Boston this year.  He was going to be a back-up like Richardson and thus while he may have shot the ball a bit more frequently, it would have only been a bit more frequently.  For a further comparison, Richardson, in a similar role in Miami (i.e. a starter and a main offensive focal point), was shooting over 6 3's a game.  Fournier is a better shooter than Richardson in a vacuum, but the volume discrepancy is by and large a result of role and opportunities. 

Also, Boston was 1.4 points per 100 possessions better with Fournier in the game last year.  This year with Richardson in the game they are 2.2 points per 100 possessions better and that is with a worse team overall. 

The simple reality is, Richardson is much better suited to come off the bench as a 3 and D specialist with more limited offensive opportunities, because Richardson is a much better defender and does just as well when he isn't a focal point offensively.  Fournier plays better with more opportunity, but can't defend well and thus is not a very good bench player.  Fournier also isn't a good enough player to be more of a focal point and the record of team's shows this i.e. when he is a top 3 shot taker his team isn't very good and when he isn't a top 3 shot taker, he plays worse, but his teams have been better, and you can't pay that guy 18+ million dollars to be a bench player.  That just isn't sound money management or value assessment.

Fournier should have been resigned, and he should have been the starter.

Timelord / Horford / Kanter
Tatum / Williams
Brown / Richardson
Fournier / Romeo or Nesmith
Smart / Schroder / Pritchard

That would have given us three scorers, with Timelord and Smart focused on defense and ball movement.  It's a much better balanced team, allowing everyone to play to their strengths.

And Boston would be worse with that lineup because that is not a role a winning team should have Fournier in.  He isn't good enough to be a 3rd offensive option.  It just isn't his role.  He is best suited as a shooter off the bench.  Those guys are valuable, but they aren't 18 million a year a valuable.  He should be someone like Otto Porter, Jr. in Golden State.  That is Fournier's sweet spot and bread and butter.

I like Otto Porter a lot, but Fournier is a much more skilled basketball player. Bad comparison i.m.o.

I view Evan Fournier like a Tim Hardaway, Buddy Hield, Duncan Robinson or Luke Kennard. Obvious defensive liabilities but they provide an extra dimension on offense with their shooting and off-ball movement that opens up the court for star players. That's why they often start despite their vulnerabilty on defense.
They also receive (relatively) big contracts due to the huge demand for shooters.

Porter is a better shooter than Fournier, which is the one thing Fournier does well.  He is a better rebounder also.  Neither one is a good defender, but Porter generates more steals and blocks while turning it over a lot less. 

The more of a role you give Fournier, the worse your team gets.  He should be a bench role player on a good team.

[LilRip]

Giving Smart the PG role was a mistake imo. He fits better as a combo guard with another guard taking the lead. Unfortunately, he’s already our 2nd best playmaker on the team (behind Tatum) and that pretty much is a big reason why we’re struggling.