Why does IME insist on starting Marcus over Schroeder?

[keevsnick]

Ok. back to old line up. Same result. In the hole.  I rest my case.

It has nothing to do with Tatum and Brown being absolutely dreadful offensively so far, though, right?

Part of the reason they are dreadful is the lack of dribble penetration and playmaking without Schroder there.

After seeing that suggestion in the game thread;

That's not a Smart vs Schröder issue.

That's a Schröder vs Brown issue.

It's hard to properly express how bad this take is without the use of cursing, which of course the site does not allow.

Maybe open a book every once in a while.

I mean it doesn't really matter how many books I read, your take is still gonna be terrible.

And another comment that's hard to respond to because it adds 0 to the discussion.

Come on man.

Let me be clearer; if you say something other than "uh dis dumb", we can actually have, you know, a discussion.

Instead of just being lame to eachother.

Do you feel having Brown come off the bench is a wrong choice? Do you feel Schröder/Smart at the same time worked poorly the past few weeks?

Come on man, give us something to work with. Do better.

I will say I get your thinking, I understand the logic. Its just the stuff you lose in replacing brown with Schroder in the starting lineup significantly outweighs what you gain. And I think its so clear taht its a hard conversation to have. But here it goes.

Yes, I think replacing Brown with Schroder is bad. The Celtics have been really good when brown is on the floor this year, he has a higher net rating than Schroder. He has a high on/off rating than Schroder. He has a higher offensive rating than Schroder. That's not to say that Schroder has struggled in those areas, he has had a overall unambiguously positive impact as well. Just not as much so as Brown.

If you look at the lineup data the Smart-Schroder-Tatum-Horford-Williams lineup has been Meh, it has a 0.0 net rating. The Smart-Brown-Tatum-Horford-Williams lineup has been AMAZING at +21.1. If you swap out R Williams for G Williams as some want to do the version with brown over Schroder also has a better net rating. Of course all of these are small sample sizes right now.

The argument the Jays guys can't play together is ludicrous. The last few years the Celtics have actually played VERY well with both guys on court, the problem has been when one of those, in particular Tatums, sits. Because Jaylen is good at a lot of stuff but running an offensive isn't high on that list. Which is why making him the sixth man and bunching all the on ball creators in the starting lineup is a particular bad idea, its not a good use of anybody's skills. It leaves even less spacing with the starters. Somebody in the starting lineup needs to be able to shoot.

So ya, I really just don't see any way in which this is a good idea. Does Schroder bring stuff Jaylen doesn't? Sure. Its just what Jaylen needs (spacing/defense) is far more important to the starting lineup which already has at least a couple decent passers in Smart/Horford than the upgrade in passing Schroder brings.

Also i'm not sure what the point of debating this really is, its just never gonna happen. Replacing a Center with Richardson or GWill is something the c's might consider. There is no chance in hell they are replacing Jaylen in the starting lineup with Schroder outside of injury reasons.

Really though the main issue with the idea is the starting lineup isn't even the issue this year. Our starting lineups have been great this year, and with Tatum hopefully breaking out of his slump maybe they get even ebtter. Its bench units that have struggled. you are trying to fix a part of the team that isnt broken.

[Csfan1984]

I was thinking if you haven't been watching this team play from the outside  (forget data actually watch film) there shouldn't be any reason to go double bigs to start. Smart isn't starting PG caliber in this system type. Need a shooter or creator at PG to start.

[Kiorrik]

Ok. back to old line up. Same result. In the hole.  I rest my case.

It has nothing to do with Tatum and Brown being absolutely dreadful offensively so far, though, right?

Part of the reason they are dreadful is the lack of dribble penetration and playmaking without Schroder there.

After seeing that suggestion in the game thread;

That's not a Smart vs Schröder issue.

That's a Schröder vs Brown issue.

It's hard to properly express how bad this take is without the use of cursing, which of course the site does not allow.

Maybe open a book every once in a while.

I mean it doesn't really matter how many books I read, your take is still gonna be terrible.

And another comment that's hard to respond to because it adds 0 to the discussion.

Come on man.

Let me be clearer; if you say something other than "uh dis dumb", we can actually have, you know, a discussion.

Instead of just being lame to eachother.

Do you feel having Brown come off the bench is a wrong choice? Do you feel Schröder/Smart at the same time worked poorly the past few weeks?

Come on man, give us something to work with. Do better.

I will say I get your thinking, I understand the logic. Its just the stuff you lose in replacing brown with Schroder in the starting lineup significantly outweighs what you gain. And I think its so clear taht its a hard conversation to have. But here it goes.

Yes, I think replacing Brown with Schroder is bad. The Celtics have been really good when brown is on the floor this year, he has a higher net rating than Schroder. He has a high on/off rating than Schroder. He has a higher offensive rating than Schroder. That's not to say that Schroder has struggled in those areas, he has had a overall unambiguously positive impact as well. Just not as much so as Brown.

If you look at the lineup data the Smart-Schroder-Tatum-Horford-Williams lineup has been Meh, it has a 0.0 net rating. The Smart-Brown-Tatum-Horford-Williams lineup has been AMAZING at +21.1. If you swap out R Williams for G Williams as some want to do the version with brown over Schroder also has a better net rating. Of course all of these are small sample sizes right now.

The argument the Jays guys can't play together is ludicrous. The last few years the Celtics have actually played VERY well with both guys on court, the problem has been when one of those, in particular Tatums, sits. Because Jaylen is good at a lot of stuff but running an offensive isn't high on that list. Which is why making him the sixth man and bunching all the on ball creators in the starting lineup is a particular bad idea, its not a good use of anybody's skills. It leaves even less spacing with the starters. Somebody in the starting lineup needs to be able to shoot.

So ya, I really just don't see any way in which this is a good idea. Does Schroder bring stuff Jaylen doesn't? Sure. Its just what Jaylen needs (spacing/defense) is far more important to the starting lineup which already has at least a couple decent passers in Smart/Horford than the upgrade in passing Schroder brings.

Also i'm not sure what the point of debating this really is, its just never gonna happen. Replacing a Center with Richardson or GWill is something the c's might consider. There is no chance in hell they are replacing Jaylen in the starting lineup with Schroder outside of injury reasons.

Really though the main issue with the idea is the starting lineup isn't even the issue this year. Our starting lineups have been great this year, and with Tatum hopefully breaking out of his slump maybe they get even ebtter. Its bench units that have struggled. you are trying to fix a part of the team that isnt broken.

Firm, firm Tommy Point.