Would Moving JB for KAT Push Us Over the Top?

[td450]

The path to over the top does not require taking any big chances.

I think the team has lots of built in improvement coming, and we likely won't have this level of bad luck with injuries again. To me, the roster has a couple of glaring problems that need fixing. We don't need stars to fix them, just good complimentary players.

What worries me is that Ainge just won't part with Marcus Smart, which absolutely must happen. We've always needed him, but now we have Brown, Fournier, Nesmith and Langford. Smart's only utility is as a backup point, and we have a better option there in Pritchard. Smart and Walker just don't work, and Smart just isn't a good enough point guard on his own to start.

Trade Smart so we can get Scottie Barnes, or some other solid option at power forward. If Robert Williams can stay healthy next year, we get dramatically better fast. At some point we need a point guard for the future, but that is the easiest position in the NBA to fill.

I think the first and third paragraphs are a pretty decent assessment although I don't think Danny would hesitate to move Smart if he could improve the team. That move would not be another draft pick, particularly for one who seems to be as offensively challenged, if not moreso, than Smart.  I would expect a deal for a vet PF/C, not a rookie.

I'd hope the injury/covid bug next season would be minimal but this team has been snakebite with injuries since IT's injury near the end of his last season here.

The problem with going for a vet is that you are in a major salary cap bind if you sign Fournier. I guess its OK with me if the owners pay up, but if they balk, I'd rather have a talented rookie and Fournier.

Barnes has some work to do, but he can pass well, he's a talented defender and he's got the length and athleticism you want. He'll give us more right away than what Semi or GWill can. and he'll probably be a plus offensive player eventually.

[Vermont Green]

I am convinced that if we could get Towns right now, we would be totally buying low.  If the trade was Brown, we might be selling low on him also, so it is a tough trade.  I definitely take Towns over Ayton (although I like Ayton).

Brown is a great player, a scoring wing with size and strength but Towns is big, something we really need.  I would trade Brown for Towns but I doubt MIN would.  If they trade Towns for Brown, they become wing heavy and big scarce.

That kind of big is much more rare in the league than a Brown level wing.  Supply and demand.

A “Brown-level wing”. You mean a 24-year old all-star on a bargain contract for three more years? Who has elevated his game every year, competes very very hard, comes up big in big games? I don’t think they’re easy to find at all.

Yes, exactly, Brown is a great player and better than most young wings and not easy to replace but easier than finding a big like Towns.

[johnnygreen]

I am convinced that if we could get Towns right now, we would be totally buying low.  If the trade was Brown, we might be selling low on him also, so it is a tough trade.  I definitely take Towns over Ayton (although I like Ayton).

Brown is a great player, a scoring wing with size and strength but Towns is big, something we really need.  I would trade Brown for Towns but I doubt MIN would.  If they trade Towns for Brown, they become wing heavy and big scarce.

That kind of big is much more rare in the league than a Brown level wing.  Supply and demand.

A “Brown-level wing”. You mean a 24-year old all-star on a bargain contract for three more years? Who has elevated his game every year, competes very very hard, comes up big in big games? I don’t think they’re easy to find at all.

Let's also mention that Brown is an elite two way wing, the current most important type of player in the league, while KAT is a scoring, but not so great defending center, perhaps the least important type of player in the league.

Here are the starting centers for the NBA champion recently:

2020: JaVale McGee
2019: Serge Ibaka
2018: Zaza Pachulia
2017: Zaza Pachulia
2016: Timofey Mozgov
2015: Andrew Bogut
2014: Tiago Splitter

Not looking like great scoring centers are really necessary for winning titles.

Not that it changes your point a whole lot, but you have a lot of that stuff wrong.  And of course completely ignore that most of those teams had scoring or at least solid offensive PF's. 

2020 - McGee didn't play a single second in the Finals.  Howard started 5 games but played 71 minutes total in the 6 games.  Davis was basically the center for the Lakers. 

2019 - Ibaka was the starting PF, Gasol started at center for the Raptors (and Gasol played way more minutes than Ibaka).

2018 - Pachulia didn't start and played a whopping 6 minutes in the entire finals.  McGee started 3 games and played 55 minutes in the series, Looney started the other game and played 39 minutes total.

2017 - Zaza did start but played a whopping 66 minutes in the 5 games.

2016 - Thompson was the starting center.  Mozgov played 25 minutes over the entire 7 game series.

2015 - Bogut started 3 of the 4 games he played.  Iguodala started the 3 games Bogut did not at PF moving Green from PF to C for 3 of the games.

2014 - Splitter only started 2 of the 5 games, Boris Diaw started the other 3.

I was talking starting center through the regular season and a bunch of the playoffs, not just the Finals. Not sure why you decided to concentrate solely on the Finals. There are a lot of games that have to be played and won before making it there and the players I listed did start most of those games.

So yeah add Gasol with Ibaka, add Howard with McGee, Thompson with Mozgov, etc.

The point still stands.

Are we supposed to ignore the teams that won those titles had either all-time greats, established MVP's, or top 3 players? The Celtics don't have any of those players right now.

[Vermont Green]

I am convinced that if we could get Towns right now, we would be totally buying low.  If the trade was Brown, we might be selling low on him also, so it is a tough trade.  I definitely take Towns over Ayton (although I like Ayton).

Brown is a great player, a scoring wing with size and strength but Towns is big, something we really need.  I would trade Brown for Towns but I doubt MIN would.  If they trade Towns for Brown, they become wing heavy and big scarce.

That kind of big is much more rare in the league than a Brown level wing.  Supply and demand.

A “Brown-level wing”. You mean a 24-year old all-star on a bargain contract for three more years? Who has elevated his game every year, competes very very hard, comes up big in big games? I don’t think they’re easy to find at all.

Let's also mention that Brown is an elite two way wing, the current most important type of player in the league, while KAT is a scoring, but not so great defending center, perhaps the least important type of player in the league.

Here are the starting centers for the NBA champion recently:

2020: JaVale McGee
2019: Serge Ibaka
2018: Zaza Pachulia
2017: Zaza Pachulia
2016: Timofey Mozgov
2015: Andrew Bogut
2014: Tiago Splitter

Not looking like great scoring centers are really necessary for winning titles.

Not that it changes your point a whole lot, but you have a lot of that stuff wrong.  And of course completely ignore that most of those teams had scoring or at least solid offensive PF's. 

2020 - McGee didn't play a single second in the Finals.  Howard started 5 games but played 71 minutes total in the 6 games.  Davis was basically the center for the Lakers. 

2019 - Ibaka was the starting PF, Gasol started at center for the Raptors (and Gasol played way more minutes than Ibaka).

2018 - Pachulia didn't start and played a whopping 6 minutes in the entire finals.  McGee started 3 games and played 55 minutes in the series, Looney started the other game and played 39 minutes total.

2017 - Zaza did start but played a whopping 66 minutes in the 5 games.

2016 - Thompson was the starting center.  Mozgov played 25 minutes over the entire 7 game series.

2015 - Bogut started 3 of the 4 games he played.  Iguodala started the 3 games Bogut did not at PF moving Green from PF to C for 3 of the games.

2014 - Splitter only started 2 of the 5 games, Boris Diaw started the other 3.

This is my point exactly.  If we had a PF like Anthony Davis then we wouldn't need a Center like Towns.  But in my opinion, nearly all of the top teams have at least 1 good, skilled, big (Lakers, Bucks, 76ers, Jazz, Nuggets, Suns).  We don't.  That is why Towns would add so much to our roster.

Now if you tell me you are going to get Siakam or Collins for say Walker, then I would not want to trade Brown for Towns.  We would have the one good big we need and we are probably fine with a Thompson/Williams center rotation.  I don't care if the one good big is a PF or a C, either is fine with me, but I think we would be much better, have a much more balanced roster, if we had that elusive one good big.

[td450]

I am convinced that if we could get Towns right now, we would be totally buying low.  If the trade was Brown, we might be selling low on him also, so it is a tough trade.  I definitely take Towns over Ayton (although I like Ayton).

Brown is a great player, a scoring wing with size and strength but Towns is big, something we really need.  I would trade Brown for Towns but I doubt MIN would.  If they trade Towns for Brown, they become wing heavy and big scarce.

That kind of big is much more rare in the league than a Brown level wing.  Supply and demand.

A “Brown-level wing”. You mean a 24-year old all-star on a bargain contract for three more years? Who has elevated his game every year, competes very very hard, comes up big in big games? I don’t think they’re easy to find at all.

Let's also mention that Brown is an elite two way wing, the current most important type of player in the league, while KAT is a scoring, but not so great defending center, perhaps the least important type of player in the league.

Here are the starting centers for the NBA champion recently:

2020: JaVale McGee
2019: Serge Ibaka
2018: Zaza Pachulia
2017: Zaza Pachulia
2016: Timofey Mozgov
2015: Andrew Bogut
2014: Tiago Splitter

Not looking like great scoring centers are really necessary for winning titles.

Not that it changes your point a whole lot, but you have a lot of that stuff wrong.  And of course completely ignore that most of those teams had scoring or at least solid offensive PF's. 

2020 - McGee didn't play a single second in the Finals.  Howard started 5 games but played 71 minutes total in the 6 games.  Davis was basically the center for the Lakers. 

2019 - Ibaka was the starting PF, Gasol started at center for the Raptors (and Gasol played way more minutes than Ibaka).

2018 - Pachulia didn't start and played a whopping 6 minutes in the entire finals.  McGee started 3 games and played 55 minutes in the series, Looney started the other game and played 39 minutes total.

2017 - Zaza did start but played a whopping 66 minutes in the 5 games.

2016 - Thompson was the starting center.  Mozgov played 25 minutes over the entire 7 game series.

2015 - Bogut started 3 of the 4 games he played.  Iguodala started the 3 games Bogut did not at PF moving Green from PF to C for 3 of the games.

2014 - Splitter only started 2 of the 5 games, Boris Diaw started the other 3.

I was talking starting center through the regular season and a bunch of the playoffs, not just the Finals. Not sure why you decided to concentrate solely on the Finals. There are a lot of games that have to be played and won before making it there and the players I listed did start most of those games.

So yeah add Gasol with Ibaka, add Howard with McGee, Thompson with Mozgov, etc.

The point still stands.

Are we supposed to ignore the teams that won those titles had either all-time greats, established MVP's, or top 3 players? The Celtics don't have any of those players right now.

Well, I think we should all accept the idea that unless something crazy happens, it will be necessary for Tatum and Brown to become good enough. I don't know if either will ever be top three. I think the odds are better that both end up top 10 and a couple of other guys evolve. That isn't crazy to hope for.

There are some crazy talented MVP level guys in the league, but only Giannis and Embiid are great defenders, and I can see us getting past those two. It gives our two guys more of a chance than it might look on the surface.

[SparzWizard]

Those teams that won the Finals all had transcendent superstar players on their team.

Tatum would become that soon. And I think KAT would put us over the top. Just need to stay healthy, get some key bench players and do actual coaching and we good.

[Sophomore]

I am convinced that if we could get Towns right now, we would be totally buying low.  If the trade was Brown, we might be selling low on him also, so it is a tough trade.  I definitely take Towns over Ayton (although I like Ayton).

Brown is a great player, a scoring wing with size and strength but Towns is big, something we really need.  I would trade Brown for Towns but I doubt MIN would.  If they trade Towns for Brown, they become wing heavy and big scarce.

That kind of big is much more rare in the league than a Brown level wing.  Supply and demand.

A “Brown-level wing”. You mean a 24-year old all-star on a bargain contract for three more years? Who has elevated his game every year, competes very very hard, comes up big in big games? I don’t think they’re easy to find at all.

Yes, exactly, Brown is a great player and better than most young wings and not easy to replace but easier than finding a big like Towns.

I guess I would need to see more of Towns, but against the Cs I’ve never thought I was watching a top-2 player for a championship run. Maybe it was his surroundings, but I didn’t see the fire, and his defensive limitations to this point are well documented. 

[nickagneta]

I am convinced that if we could get Towns right now, we would be totally buying low.  If the trade was Brown, we might be selling low on him also, so it is a tough trade.  I definitely take Towns over Ayton (although I like Ayton).

Brown is a great player, a scoring wing with size and strength but Towns is big, something we really need.  I would trade Brown for Towns but I doubt MIN would.  If they trade Towns for Brown, they become wing heavy and big scarce.

That kind of big is much more rare in the league than a Brown level wing.  Supply and demand.

A “Brown-level wing”. You mean a 24-year old all-star on a bargain contract for three more years? Who has elevated his game every year, competes very very hard, comes up big in big games? I don’t think they’re easy to find at all.

Let's also mention that Brown is an elite two way wing, the current most important type of player in the league, while KAT is a scoring, but not so great defending center, perhaps the least important type of player in the league.

Here are the starting centers for the NBA champion recently:

2020: JaVale McGee
2019: Serge Ibaka
2018: Zaza Pachulia
2017: Zaza Pachulia
2016: Timofey Mozgov
2015: Andrew Bogut
2014: Tiago Splitter

Not looking like great scoring centers are really necessary for winning titles.

Not that it changes your point a whole lot, but you have a lot of that stuff wrong.  And of course completely ignore that most of those teams had scoring or at least solid offensive PF's. 

2020 - McGee didn't play a single second in the Finals.  Howard started 5 games but played 71 minutes total in the 6 games.  Davis was basically the center for the Lakers. 

2019 - Ibaka was the starting PF, Gasol started at center for the Raptors (and Gasol played way more minutes than Ibaka).

2018 - Pachulia didn't start and played a whopping 6 minutes in the entire finals.  McGee started 3 games and played 55 minutes in the series, Looney started the other game and played 39 minutes total.

2017 - Zaza did start but played a whopping 66 minutes in the 5 games.

2016 - Thompson was the starting center.  Mozgov played 25 minutes over the entire 7 game series.

2015 - Bogut started 3 of the 4 games he played.  Iguodala started the 3 games Bogut did not at PF moving Green from PF to C for 3 of the games.

2014 - Splitter only started 2 of the 5 games, Boris Diaw started the other 3.

I was talking starting center through the regular season and a bunch of the playoffs, not just the Finals. Not sure why you decided to concentrate solely on the Finals. There are a lot of games that have to be played and won before making it there and the players I listed did start most of those games.

So yeah add Gasol with Ibaka, add Howard with McGee, Thompson with Mozgov, etc.

The point still stands.

Are we supposed to ignore the teams that won those titles had either all-time greats, established MVP's, or top 3 players? The Celtics don't have any of those players right now.

No. Don't ignore it, but it is fairly obvious a top notch center isn't necessary to win a title. As for a top three player, nope don't have one, yet. But neither is KAT one. Given the age of our young guys and that they are both two way players, one of them could develop into one someday. I think both Jays have a better chance of being a top 3-5 level guy than KAT, as well.

[PhoSita]

KAT should be more impactful, but whenever I've watched him he seems like a more athletic version of Enes Kanter with less than half the charisma.

[liam]

KAT should be more impactful, but whenever I've watched him he seems like a more athletic version of Enes Kanter with less than half the charisma.

Better jump shot...

[gouki88]

KAT should be more impactful, but whenever I've watched him he seems like a more athletic version of Enes Kanter with less than half the charisma.

That might be what your eye tells you. But it's incredibly wrong