Author Topic: Hayward starting from the bench  (Read 8509 times)

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Re: Hayward starting from the bench
« Reply #45 on: May 11, 2018, 01:32:03 AM »

Offline SparzWizard

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Is Hayward returning for the NBA Finals?  :P


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Re: Hayward starting from the bench
« Reply #46 on: May 11, 2018, 05:51:55 AM »

Offline iadera

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I think Baynes will probably leave. His value has increased. He'll get an offer from someone like Suns for $10 mil. and Danny's not gonna give him that.

Re: Hayward starting from the bench
« Reply #47 on: May 12, 2018, 11:17:38 PM »

Offline bellerephon

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Man, some of you guys have lost your mind.  Hayward is a better player than either brown or Tatum.  If we’re basing it on that, then he’s [dang] sure starting.  And if that means that one of brown and Tatum don’t start, so be it.

There’s no rule that says you start your best five players. San Antonio won multiple titles with their second best player coming off the bench, for instance.

Conversely, just because some other team chose to not start their best five players doesn't mean that every team has to follow that same path, or that it's even the right path in the first place.

Not every situation is the same.

Nobody said it was?  But, the arguments in this thread largely boil down to “guys like Hayward don’t come off the bench” or “Hayward is better than Player X, so he needs to start”. Pop, Red, Kerr, etc. would all say that’s nonsense.

And, I’d like to hear the argument that it wasn’t the right path in San Antonio or Golden State.

As for here, playing small for 82 games seems risky. It hurts the defense, while having diminishing returns on offense. I suspect that due to egos and perceived status we’ll start both Tatum and Hayward, but that doesn’t mean it’s the optimal lineup.

First of all, I would dispense with Golden State as part of this discussion. Iguodala is their fifth best player, I don't think it's at all controversial to have your fifth best player come off the bench. As far as the Spurs go, clearly the results show it worked for them. But it is also true that it is the exception rather than the rule to bring one of your best players off the bench. Even the Havlicek situation isn't really on point, that was a dynasty with a proven championship roster, hardly the case now.

I agree that they will likely start Tatum and Hayward, but I don't think it's largely about ego. I think it's best for the team that Hayward start. It's important to note that he's arguably the best player on the team. Kyrie is better on offense, but Hayward is so superior to Kyrie on defense that one could argue that overall he's better.

But even if you don't accept that, I don't think it's wise to have the second best player on the team come off the bench. Concerns about guys wearing down and defensive matchups can all be addressed with prudent rotations. Given this team's offensive struggles, it is clearly best to put Hayward out there at the start. Since he's also a good defender, it is not at all a given that it hurts defense.

Re: Hayward starting from the bench
« Reply #48 on: May 13, 2018, 03:11:10 AM »

Offline chiken Green

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I really love Hayward but You guys had to know that eventually Both Brown and Tatum were going to catch him... He is Gordon Hayward, not Larry Bird...

At this point, seeing what we have all seen for this entire year, we have to ask ourselves. With playing time... how good can these kids actually be... 

Without GH this team won 55 games...
Without GH and KI...  They are  4 wins away from playing for it all... How do you bench that..  Why would you want to stunt their growth..

Jalen Brown earned the right to start this year based on what he did last year..
Tatum has earned that same right...

I am not saying GH should not be the starter. I am saying he should not start if it means benching one of the kids..





Re: Hayward starting from the bench
« Reply #49 on: May 13, 2018, 03:36:39 AM »

Offline GreenEnvy

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It’s Tatum’s responsibility to be ready to handle every game at PF.

He got the start there opening night, and Hayward IS starting opening night at SF next season.

Tatum has the size and skill to do it, he just needs to pack on a little muscle. Nothing major, 8-10 pounds on his wide shoulders will do him well.
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Re: Hayward starting from the bench
« Reply #50 on: May 13, 2018, 08:16:36 AM »

Offline Roy H.

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Quote
First of all, I would dispense with Golden State as part of this discussion. Iguodala is their fifth best player, I don't think it's at all controversial to have your fifth best player come off the bench.

When Iggy went to the bench, he was Golden States fourth best player, for whatever it’s worth. 


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Re: Hayward starting from the bench
« Reply #51 on: May 13, 2018, 10:00:40 AM »

Offline TheReaLPuba

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Tatum
Brown
Hayward
Horford
Gasol (Marc)

(Irving gets traded, injury prone, not a team player, only looks out for his own stardom)

Re: Hayward starting from the bench
« Reply #52 on: May 13, 2018, 12:10:57 PM »

Offline Bobshot

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Some Celtics fans seem to have written off the Celts vs the Cavs. ?? I happen to think the Sixers are better than the Cavs at this point--and the Celtics just polished them off in 5--though it was a closer series than that. The Sixers had won about 17 in a row down the stretch, and looked liked they had a shot at making the finals--especially with the Celtics missing Irving.
But Rozier broke out after Irving got hurt, and it seems they haven't lost a step.

The team way the Celtics are playing right now, the Cavs are going to have their hands full-especially with the Celts having home court. Single superstars often come out on the short end against team teams like the Celtics and the old Spurs.

I'll pick the Celtics to win this in 7 games. And see you next year for Hayward. I'll bet Danny is relieved he doesn't have to figure out rotations until then with Hayward and Irving added.

Re: Hayward starting from the bench
« Reply #53 on: May 13, 2018, 02:16:43 PM »

Offline Surferdad

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Tatum
Brown
Hayward
Horford
Gasol (Marc)

(Irving gets traded, injury prone, not a team player, only looks out for his own stardom)
Did you just trade Kyrie for Marc Gasol???

Re: Hayward starting from the bench
« Reply #54 on: May 13, 2018, 11:22:41 PM »

Offline SparzWizard

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Anyone noticed Kyrie and Hayward were both sitting at the bench in street clothes cheering for the C's?

They finally got a taste of what a future dynasty is. They will soon be playing FOR THE dynasty.


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Re: Hayward starting from the bench
« Reply #55 on: May 13, 2018, 11:23:36 PM »

Offline gouki88

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Tatum
Brown
Hayward
Horford
Gasol (Marc)

(Irving gets traded, injury prone, not a team player, only looks out for his own stardom)
Ridiculous
'23 Historical Draft: Orlando Magic.

PG: Terry Porter (90-91) / Steve Francis (00-01)
SG: Joe Dumars (92-93) / Jeff Hornacek (91-92) / Jerry Stackhouse (00-01)
SF: Brandon Roy (08-09) / Walter Davis (78-79)
PF: Terry Cummings (84-85) / Paul Millsap (15-16)
C: Chris Webber (00-01) / Ralph Sampson (83-84) / Andrew Bogut (09-10)

Re: Hayward starting from the bench
« Reply #56 on: May 13, 2018, 11:26:51 PM »

Offline Redz

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Anyone noticed Kyrie and Hayward were both sitting at the bench in street clothes cheering for the C's?

They finally got a taste of what a future dynasty is. They will soon be playing FOR THE dynasty.

I liked how squished they were. 
Yup

Re: Hayward starting from the bench
« Reply #57 on: May 13, 2018, 11:29:02 PM »

Offline Tr1boy

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A 30 million dollar 6th man

think about that lol

But for next season, there is no reason to rush him back....so it might be a good idea for him to come off the bench

PG13 took at least one full season , before he went back to playing like his old self

Re: Hayward starting from the bench
« Reply #58 on: May 15, 2018, 12:32:22 PM »

Offline rondofan1255

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Baynes is a free agent.  Even if he resigns, I think it will be:

Irving
Brown
Hayward
Tatum
Horford

Agreed.

Re: Hayward starting from the bench
« Reply #59 on: May 15, 2018, 01:00:07 PM »

Offline Vermont Green

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I think Hayward off the bench (or maybe Tatum) would be great.  i don't think either should be playing primarily as a big (or PF if you refer the traditional designations).  Hayward has actually played a fair amount at SG so I think that would be great, Brown primary SG, Tatum primary SF (maybe a little at PF), and Hayward being the SG/SF swing.  That would still allow for over 30 m/gm each.  What is not to like?  Long, athletic, and good shooting.

Tatum may get a chance to start at PF tonight against Love so for those of you who want him at PF, this may be a chance to see how that looks.  I hear a lot that Tatum started at PF in the first game but I don't think Morris was active.  Had Morris been active, I am pretty sure he would have started (James was the PF in that lineup).