Author Topic: Best roster guess IF the C's miss on Hayward  (Read 3442 times)

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Re: Best roster guess IF the C's miss on Hayward
« Reply #15 on: July 01, 2017, 09:09:48 PM »

Offline Ilikesports17

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16. Fire Danny Ainge

That would be my option.

He turned down a Bulls trade off #3 for Butler,  straight up, because he insisted on being greedy and trying to get both George AND Hayward AND keep #3 rather than just giving #3 up for Butler.

Not Butler is gone,  George is gone,  and the team is in a disaster situation AGAIN because of Danny's rediculous and constant greed of always wanting to her something for nothing.   Well now we get nothing for nothing...

Now we're screwed.   Best hope we have is to sign Hayward,  but at this point that woukd actually make us WORSE since we'd need to release Olynyk, then sign Hayward. At this point we'd be at the cap with Hayward, no plunkOlynyk and no starting power forward...and no cap space to sign one.

Every year he does the same thing over and over,  and I've had enough of it.   He needs to go.

I'm never a fan of firing a GM for a trade not made because we aren't really privy to the intricacies of serious negotiations. Who knows what offers really are and the baggage that some players carry?

Let's not fault DA too much for Cousins, Butler, or George. Seems like we could have beaten all those offers, so obviously there was more to each than just "Ainge unwilling to part with assets."

I don't think we should grossly outbid the next highest offer because we have so many attractive assets, which seems like the theme here.

If teams like the Kings, Bulls, and Pacers want to take back worse offers for their all-stars, that's on them and their GM's.... not ours.

You cannot continue to ignore the fact that for some 2-3 years now Danny Ainge has had more assets then any other gm in the entire league,  and yet he had consistently failed to make any big time moves while other teams of there have been constantly pulling off high quality trades that involved acquiring superstar players for incredibly modest costs.

There has to be a point where you draw the line and recognise that there's a problem here.

Struggling to sign free agents is one thing - i don't hold that against Ainge because that entirely comes down to where a player wants to play,  and its not easy to beat out 30 other destinations in that regard.

But trades come down generally to nothing but your ability and willingness to offer assets.   And looking at what other teams have given up to aquire big time stars like Cousins, Butler and George (I.e. Not much)  it's impossible for me to fathom that Ainge wasn't capable of winning those trades if he made a reasonable offer.

I didn't love the Fultz trade,  but ive come to terms with it because I like Tatum and mostly because I assume that trade was done to aquire additional assets that would be used to bring a star to Boston.   After all id rather have Tatum and a star then Fultz on his own.

But Danny made that trade,  and hasn't done a thing since.   All he does is sign useless international bums that nobody has ever heard of who struggle to get a minute on the court,  and trade for draft picks (which he tends to use to draft mediocre players).

Im tired of it.   Boston just finished as the 1St seed before being embarrassing blown away in the playoffs by the Cavs and being scared by both the wizards and the Bulls in the first two rounds.   Our playoff performance was woefully inadequate and was proof that the only way this team can take a step forward is to acquire at last one more star so we can beat Cleveland and make the finals at least.  If we want a shot at the Warriors we need even more then that.

And this year was the time to do it,  because Bradley and Thomas expire next year so Ainge will need to decide whether to:

(a) resign them and give up all flexibility we have or
(b) let them walk and find ourselves back in lottery mode

Either way,  this was the last year we'd have a shot at max cap space while still having the assets to pull off a monster trade.   

Another factor...it's very rare in the nba for teams to actually consider trading YOUNG superstars like Butler, George and Cousins.  Those are guys a team usually maks untouchable so that they can build around them.  The last two seasons is been extremely out of the norm for those guys to become available,  and it happened to happen during a time when Ainge had easily the most assets of any gm in the nba, abd yet not one of those assets is in Boston right now.

The problem here is obvious.   Yeah I know,  Danny aced the Brooklyn trade,  the Crowder trade and the Thomas trade.  I haven't forgotten that.   He built up this team of many assets with his own hands,  totally get that.   But at some point you have to stop giving a man a pass for the things he's achieved in the past and star recognising and judging him based on what he's doing NOW,  and he's been doing absolutely nothing beyond sitting on his treasure trove of assets,  for some 3 years now.
It remains to be seen how "high quality" all those high quality moves are.

Nola got Cousins and didn't make the playoffs. Toronto got Ibaka and scooped the 3 seed and a sweep in the ecsf. Indiana made a couple moves last year that people lauded them for and they made the 7 seed and watched their franchise player demand a trade. Butler to Minny and George to OKC look great now, but let's not judge those moves till we see the long term effect they have on the respective squads. The rockets got chris Paul but only after he told LAC he was going there in FA anyway. Plus his contract is liable to look real bad in a few years. So how many GMs have really been able to make these quality moves while Ainge has stood by?

Danny has won a ring and quickly rebuilt a 50+ win squad and the youngest 1 seed in something like 40 years. He is deserving of patience. That said, with each star opportunity we pass on, the bar for his long term plan is raised. Jayson Tatum and Jaylen Brown being just nice players isn't really acceptable now that it appears we have chosen them over guys like Butler and Cousins and George.

If Danny plays the long game and makes all 4 of our elite picks and doesn't trade for a star until well after the Thomas-Horford window then our expectations for the young gun era should be very high. We should demand an extended stretch of true contention, but I won't kill Ainge for his patience until i see the end result. When you have Ainges track record you deserve as much.

Re: Best roster guess IF the C's miss on Hayward
« Reply #16 on: July 01, 2017, 09:20:44 PM »

Offline chiken Green

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IF we are judging Ainge lets judge him correctly..

*A few years ago we were in a complete rebuild.
*Last year we ALL knew the season was a Win for us if we simply got out of the 1st round.
*We have a potential star on our Roster in Jaylen who has shown flashes as a Rookie.
*This year we added Tatum (the most polished Offensive player in the draft)The guy that Danny would have taken at #1 (I am sure we can argue that all day but with IT on the Roster, a talented wing Scorer is the right pick)
*Last year we actually had a legit Free Agent sign with us.. (that NEVER happens)
*This year we will improve as a team while having TWO legit shots at Top 5 picks..  (I believe we had one of the youngest if not THE youngest Roster in the playoffs last year)
If this team lands that Freaking Michael Porter Kid next year - we will be constructing Dannys immediately.

For Porter Ainge would have traded Butler and PG for the rights to draft that kid..
This is such a fun time to be a fan - why are we complaining as if we were the Sixers or the Suns..
Danny is doing just fine..  Last season was crazy exciting - this one promises to be even more so.
 

Re: Best roster guess IF the C's miss on Hayward
« Reply #17 on: July 01, 2017, 09:21:44 PM »

Offline Surferdad

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I will go

1. IT
2. Rozier
3. Smart
4. Bradley
5. Crowder
6. Horford
7. Tatum
8. Brown
9. KO
10. Yabu
11. Zizic
12. Semi
13. Scrap heap big (prolly Zeller)
14. Scrap heap PF
15 Scrap heap shooter
There are 17 slots available now, but my guess is J.Bird and K.Allen would be D-league.

All indications are that Yabu will continue to play overseas.

The German kid Theis is signed.

Abdul Nader is going to tear up the SL.

1. IT
2. Rozier
3. Smart
4. Bradley
5. Crowder
6. Horford
7. Tatum
8. Brown
9. KO
10. Theis
11. Zizic
12. Semi
13. Nader
14. Jerebko
15 D. Jackson
16. J. Bird
17. K. Allen
« Last Edit: July 01, 2017, 10:25:19 PM by Surferdad »

Re: Best roster guess IF the C's miss on Hayward
« Reply #18 on: July 01, 2017, 09:38:51 PM »

Offline Neurotic Guy

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16. Fire Danny Ainge

That would be my option.

He turned down a Bulls trade off #3 for Butler,  straight up, because he insisted on being greedy and trying to get both George AND Hayward AND keep #3 rather than just giving #3 up for Butler.

Not Butler is gone,  George is gone,  and the team is in a disaster situation AGAIN because of Danny's rediculous and constant greed of always wanting to her something for nothing.   Well now we get nothing for nothing...

Now we're screwed.   Best hope we have is to sign Hayward,  but at this point that woukd actually make us WORSE since we'd need to release Olynyk, then sign Hayward. At this point we'd be at the cap with Hayward, no plunkOlynyk and no starting power forward...and no cap space to sign one.

Every year he does the same thing over and over,  and I've had enough of it.   He needs to go.

I'm never a fan of firing a GM for a trade not made because we aren't really privy to the intricacies of serious negotiations. Who knows what offers really are and the baggage that some players carry?

Let's not fault DA too much for Cousins, Butler, or George. Seems like we could have beaten all those offers, so obviously there was more to each than just "Ainge unwilling to part with assets."

I don't think we should grossly outbid the next highest offer because we have so many attractive assets, which seems like the theme here.

If teams like the Kings, Bulls, and Pacers want to take back worse offers for their all-stars, that's on them and their GM's.... not ours.

You cannot continue to ignore the fact that for some 2-3 years now Danny Ainge has had more assets then any other gm in the entire league,  and yet he had consistently failed to make any big time moves while other teams of there have been constantly pulling off high quality trades that involved acquiring superstar players for incredibly modest costs.

Your points about C's having assets with a small window of opportunity to trade and sign FAs are valid.  I would have liked to see GH and PG in green next year, but also would not have liked trading valuable assets for a one year rental.   Re: Butler, I just don't consider him a superstar.  He's an excellent player, but not going to be the difference maker we need (IMO).  IF the trade was straight up for the 3 (actually, we both know it couldn't have been) I don't consider it a slam dunk.  I don't consider Butler a better player than Avery Bradley -- and Avery might have gone in the deal.

With regard to your quote above about DA's last 2-3 years which basically you describe as Danny sitting on his hands while other teams amass superstars, I am curious how you apply your rationale to the fact that the C' have improved each season and had the #1 seed in the Eastern Conference this year -- and were generally named in NBA power rankings in the top 5 or 6 in the league.  Why wouldn't all those teams acquiring superstars be ahead of Boston?

DA who used to be excoriated here for being an impulsive trader ("Trader Danny" didn't come from nowhere) is now being patient.  I think he knows what he's doing.

Re: Best roster guess IF the C's miss on Hayward
« Reply #19 on: July 02, 2017, 05:52:06 AM »

Offline crimson_stallion

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16. Fire Danny Ainge

That would be my option.

He turned down a Bulls trade off #3 for Butler,  straight up, because he insisted on being greedy and trying to get both George AND Hayward AND keep #3 rather than just giving #3 up for Butler.

Not Butler is gone,  George is gone,  and the team is in a disaster situation AGAIN because of Danny's rediculous and constant greed of always wanting to her something for nothing.   Well now we get nothing for nothing...

Now we're screwed.   Best hope we have is to sign Hayward,  but at this point that woukd actually make us WORSE since we'd need to release Olynyk, then sign Hayward. At this point we'd be at the cap with Hayward, no plunkOlynyk and no starting power forward...and no cap space to sign one.

Every year he does the same thing over and over,  and I've had enough of it.   He needs to go.

I'm never a fan of firing a GM for a trade not made because we aren't really privy to the intricacies of serious negotiations. Who knows what offers really are and the baggage that some players carry?

Let's not fault DA too much for Cousins, Butler, or George. Seems like we could have beaten all those offers, so obviously there was more to each than just "Ainge unwilling to part with assets."

I don't think we should grossly outbid the next highest offer because we have so many attractive assets, which seems like the theme here.

If teams like the Kings, Bulls, and Pacers want to take back worse offers for their all-stars, that's on them and their GM's.... not ours.

You cannot continue to ignore the fact that for some 2-3 years now Danny Ainge has had more assets then any other gm in the entire league,  and yet he had consistently failed to make any big time moves while other teams of there have been constantly pulling off high quality trades that involved acquiring superstar players for incredibly modest costs.

Your points about C's having assets with a small window of opportunity to trade and sign FAs are valid.  I would have liked to see GH and PG in green next year, but also would not have liked trading valuable assets for a one year rental.   Re: Butler, I just don't consider him a superstar.  He's an excellent player, but not going to be the difference maker we need (IMO).  IF the trade was straight up for the 3 (actually, we both know it couldn't have been) I don't consider it a slam dunk.  I don't consider Butler a better player than Avery Bradley -- and Avery might have gone in the deal.

With regard to your quote above about DA's last 2-3 years which basically you describe as Danny sitting on his hands while other teams amass superstars, I am curious how you apply your rationale to the fact that the C' have improved each season and had the #1 seed in the Eastern Conference this year -- and were generally named in NBA power rankings in the top 5 or 6 in the league.  Why wouldn't all those teams acquiring superstars be ahead of Boston?

DA who used to be excoriated here for being an impulsive trader ("Trader Danny" didn't come from nowhere) is now being patient.  I think he knows what he's doing.

I'm not sure how you can not see Butler as a superstar when he just put up 24/6/6 and has made multiple All defensive teams for the Bulls, who probably would have upset our very own Celtics of not for Rondo getting hurt and missing the test of the series.

This is the same Jimmy Butler who led the Bulls to a 4-0 season series against the Cavs this year with an average win margin of over 10 PPG.  He would have put us over Cleveland on his own, and acquiring him would have dramatically increased the probability of a free agent like Hayward or Griffin coming here.

And all he would have had to sacrifice for that is Jayson Tatum - who I love as a prospect, but he's still a prospect and there's no certainty to how good he'll be.