Can the Celts Challenge LeBron If Hayward Goes Elsewhere?

[Dino Pitino]

The way to challenge the cavs would be better-than-expected development from either Brown, Smart, Tatum or Zizic. Between the four of them there's a good chance that someone is much better than expected. We would also need all of key our veterans (especially IT and Horford) to continue performing as well as they did last year, which is far from a given. It would also help if Lebron gets a little worse and if the Cavs don't sweep their way to the ECF.

Nope. Even if Hayward signs here, it'll be tough and the Cavs would still be favored against us in the playoffs.

If we sign Hayward AND land Melo for cheap (I don't know how), I can see us having a fair shot at dethroning Cleveland.

Absent of any signings though, it'll take an unexpected quantum leap from one of our young guys (Brown? Smart? Tatum? Rozier (yikes!)? Zizic) to be able to close the gap. I'm talking, MIP-candidate levels.

These are the correct answers. We need one/both of Brown and Tatum to be superstar talents who blossom early and/or Smart to make an offensive leap forward. That's it. IT-Hayward-Horford alone ain't gonna cut it.

[GreenEnvy]

The way to challenge the cavs would be better-than-expected development from either Brown, Smart, Tatum or Zizic. Between the four of them there's a good chance that someone is much better than expected. We would also need all of key our veterans (especially IT and Horford) to continue performing as well as they did last year, which is far from a given. It would also help if Lebron gets a little worse and if the Cavs don't sweep their way to the ECF.

Nope. Even if Hayward signs here, it'll be tough and the Cavs would still be favored against us in the playoffs.

If we sign Hayward AND land Melo for cheap (I don't know how), I can see us having a fair shot at dethroning Cleveland.

Absent of any signings though, it'll take an unexpected quantum leap from one of our young guys (Brown? Smart? Tatum? Rozier (yikes!)? Zizic) to be able to close the gap. I'm talking, MIP-candidate levels.

These are the correct answers. We need one/both of Brown and Tatum to be superstar talents who blossom early and/or Smart to make an offensive leap forward. That's it. IT-Hayward-Horford alone ain't gonna cut it.

If we sign Hayward, I think we can possibly beat the Cavs. Maybe not favored, but it could be a good series.

Yeah we got embarrassed, but I think people overlook we really didn't have IT4 the entire series. Add an all-star (Hayward), a big body down low (Zizic), a bench scorer (Tatum), and marked improvement from Brown, I actually like our chances.

[__ramonezy__]

I actually think adding Melo, if we keep Bradley would make a huge difference versus the Cavs. One thing that was obvious in the Warriors series is that LeBron can tire by the 4th quarter if he's actually required to play defense at the SF position. Melo would ensure he plays both ends of the floor for 4 quarters which he's shown he no longer is able.

Im totally fine with adding Melo... honestly maybe more than Hayward

[mctyson]

Simple question:

If Gordon Hayward signs elsewhere, what can the Celtics do this summer to be in a position to challenge LeBron next year?


To me, if the answer is "probably nothing unless the Cavs suffer major injuries," I don't see the point in running this back.

Isaiah and Horford are the faces of this team, and will be for another few years at least.

But otherwise, let's give Jaylen and Tatum lots of time.  They're the future of the team.  Let's see what Zizic can do. 

In short, let's agree that next year is a bridge / development year and not pretend otherwise.


Also, I'd let Olynyk walk.  Would rather give his minutes to other players, especially given what he's likely to receive in free agency.

It is pretty simple: the Cs just have to get better.

Lucky for them, they have a lot of young guys that can make huge leaps.  I think Smart is #1. 

[tstorey_97]

The Cavaliers ran the Celtics out of the gym. Look at the points per quarter for the series. Celtic's roster could not compete. Smart went bonkers and hit 27, I think the team was 58% from the field and they won that one game.

This year's team will be very good as long as they aren't playing Cav's--GSW,

[crimson_stallion]

This is trick question,  because the answer is the same regardless of whether Boston gets Hayward or not.

The truth is, we are not beating Cleveland next year unless.  Not with Hayward or without him.   Adding him to this team does not make us good enough to beat Cleveland,  and it would cripple the team financially for the next 3-4 years making us incapable of improving. Sadly we are more than one piece away from being a contender -we need a scorer (which Hayward takes care of)  and we also need a starting big (which need me unable to get if we sign Hayward).

We actually have a better shot a beating Cleveland if we forget Hayward, and try to sign two lesser players who can fill those roles to a lesser degree.   For example if we could sign a scorer (RudyGay,  Gallinari) and also sign a big (Ibaka, Vucevic, Noel) using the cap space we have available,  without letting anybody go,  then we'd have a stronger all round team then if we signed Hayward alone.   

Our future 3-4 years from now is bright, im not concerned about that. What im concerned about us now,  and with the way this offseason has unfolded so far I just can't see Danny doing anything to really improve this team for next year.   The opportunities I saw it there are all gone now.

[crimson_stallion]

I actually think adding Melo, if we keep Bradley would make a huge difference versus the Cavs. One thing that was obvious in the Warriors series is that LeBron can tire by the 4th quarter if he's actually required to play defense at the SF position. Melo would ensure he plays both ends of the floor for 4 quarters which he's shown he no longer is able.

Im totally fine with adding Melo... honestly maybe more than Hayward

I agree 100%, but you won't get much support from others on this forum and I cant imagine you'd get much support from Danny either. He's made it pretty clear that he's not willing to give up any assets in return for older players like Melo, and that he'll only add those guys if he can get them by paying in free agency (e.g. Amir, Horford).

I doubt Danny Ainge would be willing to offer what the knicks want (which is honestly probably not much).  If he wouldn't give up #3 this year for a prime Jimmy Butler, then good luck convincing him to give anything up for Melo.

[hpantazo]

I actually think adding Melo, if we keep Bradley would make a huge difference versus the Cavs. One thing that was obvious in the Warriors series is that LeBron can tire by the 4th quarter if he's actually required to play defense at the SF position. Melo would ensure he plays both ends of the floor for 4 quarters which he's shown he no longer is able.

Im totally fine with adding Melo... honestly maybe more than Hayward

I agree 100%, but you won't get much support from others on this forum and I cant imagine you'd get much support from Danny either. He's made it pretty clear that he's not willing to give up any assets in return for older players like Melo, and that he'll only add those guys if he can get them by paying in free agency (e.g. Amir, Horford).

I doubt Danny Ainge would be willing to offer what the knicks want (which is honestly probably not much).  If he wouldn't give up #3 this year for a prime Jimmy Butler, then good luck convincing him to give anything up for Melo.

We don't have to give assets to get Melo though, the Knicks are trying to pay teams to take him.

[hodgy03038]

I actually think adding Melo, if we keep Bradley would make a huge difference versus the Cavs. One thing that was obvious in the Warriors series is that LeBron can tire by the 4th quarter if he's actually required to play defense at the SF position. Melo would ensure he plays both ends of the floor for 4 quarters which he's shown he no longer is able.

Im totally fine with adding Melo... honestly maybe more than Hayward

I agree 100%, but you won't get much support from others on this forum and I cant imagine you'd get much support from Danny either. He's made it pretty clear that he's not willing to give up any assets in return for older players like Melo, and that he'll only add those guys if he can get them by paying in free agency (e.g. Amir, Horford).

I doubt Danny Ainge would be willing to offer what the knicks want (which is honestly probably not much).  If he wouldn't give up #3 this year for a prime Jimmy Butler, then good luck convincing him to give anything up for Melo.

We don't have to give assets to get Melo though, the Knicks are trying to pay teams to take him.

You have to match salary to at least 80% right? That being said, you must give up some players.

[crimson_stallion]

The way to challenge the cavs would be better-than-expected development from either Brown, Smart, Tatum or Zizic. Between the four of them there's a good chance that someone is much better than expected. We would also need all of key our veterans (especially IT and Horford) to continue performing as well as they did last year, which is far from a given. It would also help if Lebron gets a little worse and if the Cavs don't sweep their way to the ECF.

Nope. Even if Hayward signs here, it'll be tough and the Cavs would still be favored against us in the playoffs.

If we sign Hayward AND land Melo for cheap (I don't know how), I can see us having a fair shot at dethroning Cleveland.

Absent of any signings though, it'll take an unexpected quantum leap from one of our young guys (Brown? Smart? Tatum? Rozier (yikes!)? Zizic) to be able to close the gap. I'm talking, MIP-candidate levels.

These are the correct answers. We need one/both of Brown and Tatum to be superstar talents who blossom early and/or Smart to make an offensive leap forward. That's it. IT-Hayward-Horford alone ain't gonna cut it.

If we sign Hayward, I think we can possibly beat the Cavs. Maybe not favored, but it could be a good series.

Yeah we got embarrassed, but I think people overlook we really didn't have IT4 the entire series. Add an all-star (Hayward), a big body down low (Zizic), a bench scorer (Tatum), and marked improvement from Brown, I actually like our chances.

Zizic and Tatum haven't played a single NBA game,  and it could take a year or two before we really see major steps from brown. If we're
 clinging to those guys as our last hope for beating Cleveland,  then God help us all.

As for Hayward,  he makes us better  sure - he allows us to move Crowder to the bench (where he should be a 6MOTY candidate) and improves is at the starting SF spot.

However we still have no PF at all,  and we can't survive a full season playing small ball with Crowder or Hayward.  We need rebounding and proper size. Hayward and Crowder both lack the length to play that position.

I think Hayward and Ibaka would get is past Cleveland,  but we don't have the cap space for that.   

At this point I'm close to just giving up and accepting the fact that we aren't beating Cleveland next year.  We may as well give up on that,  trade away Horford for a pick or a nice young player,  and start developing our young prospects so we can hopefully compete 3-5 years from now.   Maybe make trades for Noel or Okafor out other young big...then let out assets develop.   After missing out on the recently available players we aren't contending against golden state,  period.  No point trying.

[crimson_stallion]

I actually think adding Melo, if we keep Bradley would make a huge difference versus the Cavs. One thing that was obvious in the Warriors series is that LeBron can tire by the 4th quarter if he's actually required to play defense at the SF position. Melo would ensure he plays both ends of the floor for 4 quarters which he's shown he no longer is able.

Im totally fine with adding Melo... honestly maybe more than Hayward

I agree 100%, but you won't get much support from others on this forum and I cant imagine you'd get much support from Danny either. He's made it pretty clear that he's not willing to give up any assets in return for older players like Melo, and that he'll only add those guys if he can get them by paying in free agency (e.g. Amir, Horford).

I doubt Danny Ainge would be willing to offer what the knicks want (which is honestly probably not much).  If he wouldn't give up #3 this year for a prime Jimmy Butler, then good luck convincing him to give anything up for Melo.

We don't have to give assets to get Melo though, the Knicks are trying to pay teams to take him.

That seems to be what people want up believe,  but ive yet to see it.

If it were true then I'd happily tell the knicks to send us a future pick and we'll take Melo's salary of their hands.  We should be able to absorb his contract and still re-sign Olynyk I believe.

Id truthfully much rather do that then sign Hayward.  Melo is a better player then Hayward right now,  and he only has one of two years left on his De a l so he'd help is now WITHOUT hurting our future flexibility.

But again it won't happen.   Ainge will be his usual overly greedy self and will tell the knicks they won't take Melo unless they offer Porzingis as a sweetner, then the knicks will laugh and trade him to somebody else for a bag of crumbs.

[keevsnick]

I don't think they can challenge the Cavs even with Hayward, that organization knows they need two more stars hence the pursuit of George. Hayward gets you closer, but you still lose in 6.

[Boston Garden Leprechaun]

i'd take carmelo IF short term and does not hurt our future cap space.

[crimson_stallion]

I don't think they can challenge the Cavs even with Hayward, that organization knows they need two more stars hence the pursuit of George. Hayward gets you closer, but you still lose in 6.

If you lose in 6 you're doing well.

More likely that we still lose in 5, only this time maybe we don't lose by a mba record 30+ points. 

Sigh