Is Amir Johnson under-rated in this forum?

[WeMadeIt17]

I think he is. I really love Amir for this team. He is a good presence in the locker room. Plays with a lot of heart. Love him for this team and hope he doesn't go anywhere. I know his contract is very attractive to other teams because its expiring and 12 million but unless it a home run deal i hope he stays. Solid player for the team and makes a good impact on defense and will be useful in the playoffs.

[mmmmm]

I do think Amir is underrated, though I think the fact that the plantar fasciitis limited his minutes so severely in February and early March plays a lot into people's thinking.

Outside of that, roughly 6-week period, Amir was more often likely to play more 25-30 minutes in a game, but within that stretch, he rarely broke 20.  And that coincided with our slip from clear #3 team in the East into that ill-fated tie with ATL, Miami & Charlotte.  I think that has impacted how a lot of folks think of Amir.

Once he was healthy, though Amir was extremely effective for us.  And I personally have always been excited about the prospect of pairing him with Al Horford.  I think they have the potential (health willing) to be one of the best big-man front-court pairs in the East.

They both have similar versatility on defense and offense, able to switch & hedge and play a wide variety of roles on both ends.   Al has a better outside shot and is more aggressive to the hoop, but Amir is not a bad outside shooter and like Al he's a very efficient finisher on the pick & roll.  Both are good passers.  Both in particular are very good positional defenders with long wing-spans.  This is going to make it very difficult for opposing teams to pass into the paint.

[Smartacus]

I think I properly rate him m'self. I've recently posted about how I hope we could trade him to the Clippers as part of a package for Blake Griffin but that's not a condemnation of Amir or his value, if anything it affirms what an excellent player he is that he'd be a big reason why the Clippers would consider moving one of the top 15 players in the league for our package.

When Schmidty from Realgm said that Amir Johnson would need to be included in any deal for Blake that was when my ears perked up. Amir is just the type of player that Chris Paul wants at the 4. He'd never be able to replicate Blake's production but he'd be able to put out the base level of production Paul expects from the PF position with his smart cutting, finishing ability, and rim protection. That and the massive upgrade that Crowder would give them as a 3 leads me to think that our package could keep them as good in the short term and better down the road with the 2018 Brooklyn pick.

[TheSundanceKid]

Here are some advanced stats for last season (from basketball-reference.com):

Player A: .177 WS/48, 3.0 BPM, 3.3 VORP
Player B: .152, 2.8, 2.8
Player C: .158, 3.0, 2.3

Player A is All-Star Isaiah Thomas.  Player B is Jae Crowder.  Player C is Amir Johnson.  (For comparison, Al Horford was at .172, 4.1, 4.1)

A lot of trade ideas seem to treat Johnson as a nearly worthless throw-in who is only there to match salaries.   Some posters seemed to think he was an easily replaceable player who was likely to be cut before his contract became guaranteed.  In reality, Amir Johnson was arguably about as valuable as Jae Crowder and both were close to IT, so the Celtics starting lineup might consist of a top 20 player in the league, an All-Star, two players who give you almost the same production as the All-Star, and an All-Defensive 1st-Teamer.

That of course is to trade for a max player.  Nobody else (beside Horford who is not being traded under any circumstances) has that size of contract.  However, I do not see people saying or even implying "worthless throw-in", "easily replaceable".  Not sure where that comes from...

People act like he has to be involved in any big deal when they should consider him to be good enough to explore other options.  For example, in a proposed trade for DeMarcus Cousins, it didn't seem like anyone was motivated to keep together a strong three-big rotation of Boogie-Horford-Johnson, when you could send out Jerebko, Smart, Mickey, Young, and Holland to match salaries, along with picks.  Losing Johnson was seen as a better alternative than losing Crowder.  I don't think people tried hard enough to explore the idea of losing neither, when I think he is valuable enough to motivate creative ideas such as bringing in a third team to make salaries work.

Of course then you have to find a team willing to take on 5 players, multiple of which are not expiring.
Amir is a FA next year's and we won't have full bird rights which means we will need to use cap space to sign him. As we would likely want to go for a max FA then anyway it makes sense to try and get value now if there is a serious possibility.
I don't think I've ever said Amir was bad or a throw in but it's basically a requirement to use his salary when trading for a max player. Most rosters have at least 12-13 players guaranteed by now so unless you want to make it a 10 man trade then including large salaries is a must.

Tl;dr having one player making $12m in outgoing salary is preferable to 5 players making $12m, especially at this point in summer when rosters are mostly filled

[greece66]

I think he received credit when it was due, esp. in the playoffs.

Fans obviously have a sweet tooth for rookies- we tend to forget their bad performances much more easily because we see them as projects who will stay with the team for several years.

In Amir's case, no one knows where he will play a year from now.

[Celtics4ever]

He was the main reason, Sully's D improved, so of course, he does not get enough recognition.

[Surferdad]

I do think Amir is underrated, though I think the fact that the plantar fasciitis limited his minutes so severely in February and early March plays a lot into people's thinking.
Outside of that, roughly 6-week period, Amir was more often likely to play more 25-30 minutes in a game, but within that stretch, he rarely broke 20.  And that coincided with our slip from clear #3 team in the East into that ill-fated tie with ATL, Miami & Charlotte.  I think that has impacted how a lot of folks think of Amir.

Once he was healthy, though Amir was extremely effective for us.  And I personally have always been excited about the prospect of pairing him with Al Horford.  I think they have the potential (health willing) to be one of the best big-man front-court pairs in the East.

They both have similar versatility on defense and offense, able to switch & hedge and play a wide variety of roles on both ends.   Al has a better outside shot and is more aggressive to the hoop, but Amir is not a bad outside shooter and like Al he's a very efficient finisher on the pick & roll.  Both are good passers.  Both in particular are very good positional defenders with long wing-spans.  This is going to make it very difficult for opposing teams to pass into the paint.

This, TP.  PF is a chronic condition which ideally requires a long, complete rest to heal properly.  If a guy like Amir can play through the pain, he is not helping himself and many fans assume that if he is out there, he is 100%.  He wasn't.  You could even see him wincing after certain moves.  I hope this off-season has been the rest he needed.  If so, he will be better this season.

[The Oracle]

He was the main reason, Sully's D improved, so of course, he does not get enough recognition.

I don't think Sully's defense improved much at all this year.  The biggest reason the teams defense improved with him on the floor is because he wasn't forced to defend the PF position for half his minutes, a big part of that was playing next to Amir rather than Zeller.  Playing next to Amir allowed him to defend the only position he capably can.

[crimson_stallion]

Here are some advanced stats for last season (from basketball-reference.com):

Player A: .177 WS/48, 3.0 BPM, 3.3 VORP
Player B: .152, 2.8, 2.8
Player C: .158, 3.0, 2.3

Player A is All-Star Isaiah Thomas.  Player B is Jae Crowder.  Player C is Amir Johnson.  (For comparison, Al Horford was at .172, 4.1, 4.1)

A lot of trade ideas seem to treat Johnson as a nearly worthless throw-in who is only there to match salaries.  Some posters seemed to think he was an easily replaceable player who was likely to be cut before his contract became guaranteed.  In reality, Amir Johnson was arguably about as valuable as Jae Crowder and both were close to IT, so the Celtics starting lineup might consist of a top 20 player in the league, an All-Star, two players who give you almost the same production as the All-Star, and an All-Defensive 1st-Teamer.

Amir's impact was massively underrated by fans last year.

I'm not sure why people could be so blind to it, but I watched almost every Celtics game, and when Amir stepped on the court he made a HUGE impact almost every single time. 

Rarely did a shot ever go up uncontested inside 10 feet while Amir was on the floor.  Rarely did an opponent out-battle him for a rebound.  Rarely did he ever miss a shot inside the painted area.  His presence in the paint (on defense, on offense AND on the boards) was a game changer.

It's unfortunate that his physical health held him back from being able to bring that energy in starter-like minutes on a consistent basis, because he was HUGE for us.  His stats didn't look standout, but his impact absolutely was.

I'm going to go out on a limb and say that Thomas, Bradley and Johnson were our three most important players last year, followed by Crowder.  Reason being that each of those guys brought something unique and critical to the table that - Thomas brought creativity on offense, Bradley single-handedly slowed opponent ball handlers and stretched the floor, and Amir controlled the paint. All three critical to our success.

[fairweatherfan]

I agree, Amir's play was a lot more effective than most gave it credit for.  The biggest limitation was that he usually wasn't playing many minutes.  But he's a solid stopgap at C and would be an excellent backup.

[crimson_stallion]

I do think Amir is underrated, though I think the fact that the plantar fasciitis limited his minutes so severely in February and early March plays a lot into people's thinking.
Outside of that, roughly 6-week period, Amir was more often likely to play more 25-30 minutes in a game, but within that stretch, he rarely broke 20.  And that coincided with our slip from clear #3 team in the East into that ill-fated tie with ATL, Miami & Charlotte.  I think that has impacted how a lot of folks think of Amir.

Once he was healthy, though Amir was extremely effective for us.  And I personally have always been excited about the prospect of pairing him with Al Horford.  I think they have the potential (health willing) to be one of the best big-man front-court pairs in the East.

They both have similar versatility on defense and offense, able to switch & hedge and play a wide variety of roles on both ends.   Al has a better outside shot and is more aggressive to the hoop, but Amir is not a bad outside shooter and like Al he's a very efficient finisher on the pick & roll.  Both are good passers.  Both in particular are very good positional defenders with long wing-spans.  This is going to make it very difficult for opposing teams to pass into the paint.

This, TP.  PF is a chronic condition which ideally requires a long, complete rest to heal properly.  If a guy like Amir can play through the pain, he is not helping himself and many fans assume that if he is out there, he is 100%.  He wasn't.  You could even see him wincing after certain moves.  I hope this off-season has been the rest he needed.  If so, he will be better this season.

As somebody who has suffered from Plantar Fasciitis myself, I completely understand what Amir was going though.

Mine started off pretty minor, such that I would start to get a pain in the bottom of my feet when standing/walking for long periods of time.

After some years it started to get pretty bad.  The best way I can describe it is that it feels like you are walking on small shards of glass - every time you put weight on your foot it feels like you have sharp glass shards ripping apart the bottom of your feet.

Not only that but it also causes your feet to rotate (either inwards or outwards) on an unnatural angle.  In my case this caused my knees sit on a constantly twisted angle.  This led to major pain inside my knee every time I bent my knee and applied any type of weight to it - I couldn't walk up/down stairs, I struggled to get up off a chair, and I struggled immensely just to be able to get inside my car.  Needless to say, playing basketball was a major stuggle.  I'd be ok for maybe the first 15-20 minutes on the court, but after that my knees started to get weak and painful and the pain in my foot became severe. At that point I could no longer run, and it would take me about 3 days for the pain to come down enough for me to be able to walk without a limp again. 

Eventually I ditched the shoes I was wearing (for ones with stiffer midfoot support) and got custom orthotics made which helped the situation - the pain foot and knee pain are both gone now, but it took me a good year (wearing the orthotics everwhere I go) to get to this point. 

So having experienced PF for myself, believe me when I say that it is impressive that Amir was able to even do as much as he did out there.

[billysan]

Amir is invaluable as stated.  He can play either big position and hold his own against the better bigs in the league.  He doesn't complain about coming off the bench. He will play 14 or 40 mpg, whatever we need and do it well. He is a solid piece that deserves a shot at a championship with us.

If we can keep him an additional  year at 12 million, I do it in a heart beat.