Not to be a Homer... but *CAN'T* Trade Bradley, Smart or Crowder!

[86MaxwellSmart]

In order to beat GS you will aslo need to tire them out while they play DEFENSE.

If we got Okafor then we would have a big advantage over them and given what Okafor would require to get, we would have have a lot of trade-able assets for a All-Star/Star player

Agreed...a front line of Horford and Okafor would do some damage, whilst our Guards lock up theirs...or any other team.

[LarBrd33]

Nobody is beating Golden State this year.  But I agree, you need strong defenders to keep them under 250 points.  You also need to raise the basket to 20 feet and push the 3-point line out to half court.   

[Sketch5]

I have no heartburn about trading Marcus Smart whatsoever. Not offensively skilled enough to worry about trading. We'll be fine defensively.

Stevens wants guys that can switch in pick n rolls with out giving up much of an advantage. He hasn't had that ability to do that yet because of players like Sully and KO that can't guard anything faster than a sloth.

Smarts been able to guard 1-5 with some success. While AB can shoot better than Smart he can only really guard 1's and 2's. And IT, 1's. Smart has done a lot on the defensive end that makes up for his lack off offense. If he can become an average offensive player, which wouldn't take too much, he has a slight advantage over AB.

And I'm not saying Smart should be a starter, I don't think AB is really a starter, not on a contender. Butler fills that roll much more, but I'd rather have Smart and AB backing up IT and a Butler than get rid of one of them.

Unfortunately AB has the most value when it comes to D and the ability to shoot the 3 ball under that contract. If you're swapping one for Butler, AB would be the one that goes because you have to give up one less asset to make it work in a trade.  And if you keep AB, he's going to demand a huge pay raise in a could years.

Smart will be more cost effective and you don't give up much.

Until Smart proves he can shoot and consistently distribute the basketball without turnovers - neither skill I believe he will ever develop - I just chuckle at the people who consider him untouchable.

If people love his warts that much, just go get Tony Allen back from Memphis. Not much difference in the skill set.

I suspect it's more of "Don't trade my favorite player," actually.

Thats funny that Smart turns the ball over less than AB,not by much but also has one more apg than AB.

I never said he was untouchable, but pointing out from a defensive stance he has more to offer than AB. But it's also better to keep both, and both coming off the bench.

And if he has the same skill set as TA, why would we go get the older version of it? Makes no sense.

Also IT is my favorite player right now on the team, so your suspicions are wrong .

Smart is as disposable as the day is long. I don't care about his defense. He negates it with bad shooting and poor judgment with the basketball. Never said Bradley is a must-keep, either. The idea that we have anyone outside of Thomas who is a must keep - and now Horford - is absurd.

Trade him.

I'm not saying Smart is untouchable, but you'd have to get a very good player in return. You said we'd be fine defensively trading him. I'm saying he's more valuable on the D than AB.

Stevens wants guys who can play multiple positions. AB is a better shooter. Smart is very good at getting the ball moving once he's brought the ball up the floor. He also very good at getting the rebound and finding the open man down the court. Thats were he's better.

AB can guard two positions. Smart had done 1-5. But mostly 1-3 and how Stevens wants to switch on D Smart doesn't hurt you when a bigger player posts you up. And with IT, you can't have two guys who get posted easily.

You also have to know who you're trading for, one player may work better than the other. I'm just saying it isn't that easy. But I'm sure you'll say it is...

[Sketch5]

I have no heartburn about trading Marcus Smart whatsoever. Not offensively skilled enough to worry about trading. We'll be fine defensively.

Stevens wants guys that can switch in pick n rolls with out giving up much of an advantage. He hasn't had that ability to do that yet because of players like Sully and KO that can't guard anything faster than a sloth.

Smarts been able to guard 1-5 with some success. While AB can shoot better than Smart he can only really guard 1's and 2's. And IT, 1's. Smart has done a lot on the defensive end that makes up for his lack off offense. If he can become an average offensive player, which wouldn't take too much, he has a slight advantage over AB.

And I'm not saying Smart should be a starter, I don't think AB is really a starter, not on a contender. Butler fills that roll much more, but I'd rather have Smart and AB backing up IT and a Butler than get rid of one of them.

Unfortunately AB has the most value when it comes to D and the ability to shoot the 3 ball under that contract. If you're swapping one for Butler, AB would be the one that goes because you have to give up one less asset to make it work in a trade.  And if you keep AB, he's going to demand a huge pay raise in a could years.

Smart will be more cost effective and you don't give up much.

You give Olynyk a great disservice with that comment. 

There is a reason why he has had some of the better advanced numbered defensively at his position the last 2 seasons - it's not a fluke.  KO is not a rim protector by any means, but he's actually a LOT more mobile the people give him credit for.  He moves pretty well laterally for a 7 footer, he's very intelligent and is always in the right place at the right time, and he rarely does stupid things like bite on pump fakes.

Even his shotblocking numbers were half respectable last season.

Kelly's athleticism is massively underrated on here I think.  He's not a great leaper and doesn't play much above the rim, but he runs hard and and often in transition and he has consistently been one of our better defensive players for a year or two now.

If you can reduce the foul tendancy (he did a bit last year) he'll get even better.

Sully is in a similar category - when he wants to be. Sully has shown he can be a quality defensive player but doesn't always seem to be motivated to move.  He's not as mobile as KO though and seems to struggle a lot more against quicker bigs who Kelly often can stick with ok.

I still remember the brilliant defensive Job Olynyk did against Cousins not that long ago.  Can't begin to compete with him on size or strength, but he used angles and his hands well to force DMC into uncomfortable positions, and in that he forced a lot of bad shots.  He didn't get a lot of credit for it, but he was playing EXCEPTIONAL defence that night against a guy who should have had his number in so many ways.

KO dose fine one on one against other bigs, but I'm talking about when he has to pick up a guard. He gets burned quite often. I'm hoping like crazy he's working on it. But thats were he gets his fouls from a lot.

[Sketch5]

Crazy thread.

They absolutely can trade away any of the 3. None of them are game changers. Don't give me that defensive BS.

Give me RINGS

Yeah and when GS couldn't hit their shots the last three games how did that go? You need guys that can do something a little extra on D coming off the bench to win games. Once Love was on the bench more than not is when the Cavs started to roll, and that was because of D and not the O.

You have to have your balance. You can find guys who can fill it up,well maybe not the Celtics, but most times it's easier to find offensive players than defensive players. So keeping your best and more versatile defenders is the smarter option than just rolling with a bunch of guys who can hit it deep.

[CoachBo]

I have no heartburn about trading Marcus Smart whatsoever. Not offensively skilled enough to worry about trading. We'll be fine defensively.

Stevens wants guys that can switch in pick n rolls with out giving up much of an advantage. He hasn't had that ability to do that yet because of players like Sully and KO that can't guard anything faster than a sloth.

Smarts been able to guard 1-5 with some success. While AB can shoot better than Smart he can only really guard 1's and 2's. And IT, 1's. Smart has done a lot on the defensive end that makes up for his lack off offense. If he can become an average offensive player, which wouldn't take too much, he has a slight advantage over AB.

And I'm not saying Smart should be a starter, I don't think AB is really a starter, not on a contender. Butler fills that roll much more, but I'd rather have Smart and AB backing up IT and a Butler than get rid of one of them.

Unfortunately AB has the most value when it comes to D and the ability to shoot the 3 ball under that contract. If you're swapping one for Butler, AB would be the one that goes because you have to give up one less asset to make it work in a trade.  And if you keep AB, he's going to demand a huge pay raise in a could years.

Smart will be more cost effective and you don't give up much.

Until Smart proves he can shoot and consistently distribute the basketball without turnovers - neither skill I believe he will ever develop - I just chuckle at the people who consider him untouchable.

If people love his warts that much, just go get Tony Allen back from Memphis. Not much difference in the skill set.

I suspect it's more of "Don't trade my favorite player," actually.

Thats funny that Smart turns the ball over less than AB,not by much but also has one more apg than AB.

I never said he was untouchable, but pointing out from a defensive stance he has more to offer than AB. But it's also better to keep both, and both coming off the bench.

And if he has the same skill set as TA, why would we go get the older version of it? Makes no sense.

Also IT is my favorite player right now on the team, so your suspicions are wrong .

Smart is as disposable as the day is long. I don't care about his defense. He negates it with bad shooting and poor judgment with the basketball. Never said Bradley is a must-keep, either. The idea that we have anyone outside of Thomas who is a must keep - and now Horford - is absurd.

Trade him.

I'm not saying Smart is untouchable, but you'd have to get a very good player in return. You said we'd be fine defensively trading him. I'm saying he's more valuable on the D than AB.

Stevens wants guys who can play multiple positions. AB is a better shooter. Smart is very good at getting the ball moving once he's brought the ball up the floor. He also very good at getting the rebound and finding the open man down the court. Thats were he's better.

AB can guard two positions. Smart had done 1-5. But mostly 1-3 and how Stevens wants to switch on D Smart doesn't hurt you when a bigger player posts you up. And with IT, you can't have two guys who get posted easily.

You also have to know who you're trading for, one player may work better than the other. I'm just saying it isn't that easy. But I'm sure you'll say it is...

You lost me with your reliance on "advanced statistics." Most of them are garbage. I've seen the laughably pillow-soft Kelly Olynyk try to play defense.

I'd happily move Smart for Westbrook, Okafor, Noel and basically anyone who can shoot the basketball. He isn't good enough on the other end to warrant otherwise.

[DefenseWinsChamps]

I have no heartburn about trading Marcus Smart whatsoever. Not offensively skilled enough to worry about trading. We'll be fine defensively.

Stevens wants guys that can switch in pick n rolls with out giving up much of an advantage. He hasn't had that ability to do that yet because of players like Sully and KO that can't guard anything faster than a sloth.

Smarts been able to guard 1-5 with some success. While AB can shoot better than Smart he can only really guard 1's and 2's. And IT, 1's. Smart has done a lot on the defensive end that makes up for his lack off offense. If he can become an average offensive player, which wouldn't take too much, he has a slight advantage over AB.

And I'm not saying Smart should be a starter, I don't think AB is really a starter, not on a contender. Butler fills that roll much more, but I'd rather have Smart and AB backing up IT and a Butler than get rid of one of them.

Unfortunately AB has the most value when it comes to D and the ability to shoot the 3 ball under that contract. If you're swapping one for Butler, AB would be the one that goes because you have to give up one less asset to make it work in a trade.  And if you keep AB, he's going to demand a huge pay raise in a could years.

Smart will be more cost effective and you don't give up much.

Until Smart proves he can shoot and consistently distribute the basketball without turnovers - neither skill I believe he will ever develop - I just chuckle at the people who consider him untouchable.

If people love his warts that much, just go get Tony Allen back from Memphis. Not much difference in the skill set.

I suspect it's more of "Don't trade my favorite player," actually.

Thats funny that Smart turns the ball over less than AB,not by much but also has one more apg than AB.

I never said he was untouchable, but pointing out from a defensive stance he has more to offer than AB. But it's also better to keep both, and both coming off the bench.

And if he has the same skill set as TA, why would we go get the older version of it? Makes no sense.

Also IT is my favorite player right now on the team, so your suspicions are wrong .

Smart is as disposable as the day is long. I don't care about his defense. He negates it with bad shooting and poor judgment with the basketball. Never said Bradley is a must-keep, either. The idea that we have anyone outside of Thomas who is a must keep - and now Horford - is absurd.

Trade him.

I'm not saying Smart is untouchable, but you'd have to get a very good player in return. You said we'd be fine defensively trading him. I'm saying he's more valuable on the D than AB.

Stevens wants guys who can play multiple positions. AB is a better shooter. Smart is very good at getting the ball moving once he's brought the ball up the floor. He also very good at getting the rebound and finding the open man down the court. Thats were he's better.

AB can guard two positions. Smart had done 1-5. But mostly 1-3 and how Stevens wants to switch on D Smart doesn't hurt you when a bigger player posts you up. And with IT, you can't have two guys who get posted easily.

You also have to know who you're trading for, one player may work better than the other. I'm just saying it isn't that easy. But I'm sure you'll say it is...

You lost me with your reliance on "advanced statistics." Most of them are garbage. I've seen the laughably pillow-soft Kelly Olynyk try to play defense.

I'd happily move Smart for Westbrook, Okafor, Noel and basically anyone who can shoot the basketball. He isn't good enough on the other end to warrant otherwise.

I'm glad you are not our GM, CoachBo. Its ignorant to group most advanced stats together and call them "garbage." I think assessments like the "eye test" of certain people are fundamentally flawed, but so are most statistics. You have to take eye tests and stats together, and when they disagree, ask "Why?" In this case, I'd argue that the answer about Olynyk is somewhere in the middle. Eye tests are biased against him and advanced stats don't show his struggles defensively. He is probably not as good as the advanced stats say or as bad as "eye test" people like you say.

[Beat LA]

I'm not saying Smart is untouchable, but you'd have to get a very good player in return. You said we'd be fine defensively trading him. I'm saying he's more valuable on the D than AB.

Stevens wants guys who can play multiple positions. AB is a better shooter. Smart is very good at getting the ball moving once he's brought the ball up the floor. He also very good at getting the rebound and finding the open man down the court. Thats were he's better.

AB can guard two positions. Smart had done 1-5. But mostly 1-3 and how Stevens wants to switch on D Smart doesn't hurt you when a bigger player posts you up. And with IT, you can't have two guys who get posted easily.

You also have to know who you're trading for, one player may work better than the other. I'm just saying it isn't that easy. But I'm sure you'll say it is...

I disagree.  Despite his athleticism, Bradley's size means that he can only guard point guards or similar size shooting guards, of which there aren't many in the league in reference to the latter.  CJ McCollum and Victor Oladipo are the only two that I think of off the top of my head, right now.

And then offensively, Bradley can play as a shooting guard who comes off of picks, hand-offs, and shooting his pet shot off of the pick and roll, but that's about it, and having him play point guard is a recipe for disaster, lol . What an odd team we have - a seven footer who can't rebound because of T-Rex arms in Nolynyk, a combo guard in Smart who has neither the passing, ball handling, shooting, or the ability to get the basket to play either backcourt position but transforms into an all star once a year when playing in OKC , a good athlete who plays out of control and is an undersized 2 guard learning how to be a point guard in Rozier, a physically, albeit not athletically, imposing small forward who can't use his left hand, and can only score on straight right handed line drives, spotting up, and coming off of hand-offs, more of a 2 guard trapped in an undersized point guard's body who is a major defensive liability in Thomas, a rickety 29 year old former preps to pros player who takes more time to shoot a jumper than is needed to load and fire a musket, lol , a tweener with a set shot in Jerebko, and James Young (need I say more about him, lol? ), and that's before factoring in any and all of the new guys. Ugh.  I didn't put Hunter in there because we haven't seen nearly enough to make a judgement on him, imo.

You lost me with your reliance on "advanced statistics." Most of them are garbage. I've seen the laughably pillow-soft Kelly Olynyk try to play defense.

I'd happily move Smart for Westbrook, Okafor, Noel and basically anyone who can shoot the basketball. He isn't good enough on the other end to warrant otherwise.

While I agree with you in terms of advanced stats, none of those four players can shoot at all, lol.

[Beat LA]

I'm glad you are not our GM, CoachBo. Its ignorant to group most advanced stats together and call them "garbage." I think assessments like the "eye test" of certain people are fundamentally flawed, but so are most statistics. You have to take eye tests and stats together, and when they disagree, ask "Why?" In this case, I'd argue that the answer about Olynyk is somewhere in the middle. Eye tests are biased against him and advanced stats don't show his struggles defensively. He is probably not as good as the advanced stats say or as bad as "eye test" people like you say.

Didn't Marcus Smart also have great advanced stats, despite the fact that he had a marginal skill level and a propensity to both take bad shots and flop without shame, lol?  I'm not an advanced stats guy, either, namely because there are too many variables to factor in with basketball, imo, yet guys like Morey and Ainge are trying to take the Bill James approach to the hard court when it's simply not possible, imo.  There's no on base percentage for basketball.  Just because a guy might score very well in terms of basketball sabermetrics doesn't mean that he'll be a good player, imo.