Boston/Chicago/Cleveland Draft Night Trade

[jpotter33]

Draft night trade with with Chicago and Cleveland

Boston: Love

Cleveland: Butler, KO

Chicago: Crowder, Jerebko, Young, #3, #16

Trade #23 for future first round pick/cash considerations

After renouncing Amir and our free agents, that leaves us with about $45, 429, 929 in salary.

Max out Hassan Whiteside for $21.6M

Max out Kevin Durant for $26M

That puts us right at the salary cap with $91, 842, 355. We'd then have to rely on whatever exceptions we have and vet minimum contracts to fill out the rest of the roster, which looks like this:

PG: Smart, IT
SG: Bradley, Rozier
SF: Durant, Hunter
PF: Love, Mickey
C: Whiteside, ?

Who says no? That's actually a pretty fair trade all around and one that seemingly benefits everyone involved. Is a Big 4 of Durant, Love, Whiteside, and IT enough to convince Durant to sign here? Once we'd fill out our bench, I think so, because we're arguably better than Cleveland with our balance between a high-powered, good-shooting offense and a ridiculous perimeter defense backed by tremendous size and rim protection in the frontcourt.

[Spilling Green Dye]

I don't understand this trade at all.  At this point I wouldn't give up the #3 draft pick for Love and  his contract, let alone #3, #16, AND Crowder.

This deal seems to heavily favor Cleveland who is somehow getting Butler (a young star on a good contract) by giving up Love (less of a star on a worse contract)

[Evantime34]

Waaaaay too much for Love, imo. 3, 16, Crowder, Olynyk and Jerebko for Love?

No chance that Cleveland would get the return of Butler and KO for Love. Butler is absolutely worth more than Love, so that they also need Olynyk on top of Butler for Love?

I don't think I'd do Crowder, Jerebko, Olynyk, Young, 3 and 16 for Butler. I'm not sure I'd give up Crowder or the 3rd pick for Love at all, I'm certainly not giving up all those assets.

I'd rather have us do nothing than give up too much for Butler, that is even more true about Love.

[jpotter33]

Waaaaay too much for Love, imo. 3, 16, Crowder, Olynyk and Jerebko for Love?

No chance that Cleveland would get the return of Butler and KO for Love. Butler is absolutely worth more than Love, so that they also need Olynyk on top of Butler for Love?

I don't think I'd do Crowder, Jerebko, Olynyk, Young, 3 and 16 for Butler. I'm not sure I'd give up Crowder or the 3rd pick for Love at all, I'm certainly not giving up all those assets.

I'd rather have us do nothing than give up too much for Butler, that is even more true about Love.

Much of that is to create the required cap space to sign KD and Whiteside via our cap space. Butler/Love for Crowder, #3 is probably fair value, but in order to complete the trade and have enough space to fit the other two stars, you have to also give up the other draft picks, JJ, and Young. Love's contract is just so big you have to do it that way, though he's certainly still worth it in the right system.

So let's say that getting Love would convince both of them to sign here, meaning you would have to give that much up anyways. Do you do it?

[jambr380]

I agree, way way too much. Both Crowder and the #3 are off the table in a trade for Love - nevermind both.

It is interesting that you included wanting to be able to add Whiteside as a draw for KD - would he really have any desire to play with Whiteside? Seems like a stretch.

As a sidenote, I typically very much enjoy what you have to post here on CB, jpotter - this one just seems extraordinarily unbalanced for the Cs.

[jpotter33]

I agree, way way too much. Both Crowder and the #3 are off the table in a trade for Love - nevermind both.

It is interesting that you included wanting to be able to add Whiteside as a draw for KD - would he really have any desire to play with Whiteside? Seems like a stretch.

As a sidenote, I typically very much enjoy what you have to post here on CB, jpotter - this one just seems extraordinarily unbalanced for the Cs.

Thanks! TP!

And, yeah, it's definitely an overpay, but as I said in the comment above, it's really the only way to be able to fit two other stars in our cap space AND have both of the other two teams agree to it. So if this was a way for you to team up KD, Love, and Whiteside with the rest of our squad that we have left, would you really not do the trade simply because it's a bit of an overpay?

Now if we were just trying to add one max player in free agency, it might be different. Still, I don't see how we pry someone like Love or Butler away without offering something close to this package. Cleveland isn't just going to help us out unless they think they won the trade.

[The Oracle]

Not only is that a huge overpay but you have turned Cleveland into an almost unbeatable team for the next 3 to 5 years.  Butler and Lebron on the wings would be ridiculous.  K.O. would be the near perfect stretch 4 next to Lebron, Butler and Kyrie, low maintenance, hit open 3's and take easy buckets, good passer, plays defense and can defend the perimeter.  This entire forum has gone mad lol. 

[Ilikesports17]

We get absolutely shafted in this deal.
Cleveland on the other hand probably loves it.

I also hate Whiteside.

Once again, if KD comes to you and says get Love and Whiteside and I will sign with the Celtics, and this is what it costs, then you have to do it. Otherwise? not a chance.

[saltlover]

Waaaaay too much for Love, imo. 3, 16, Crowder, Olynyk and Jerebko for Love?

No chance that Cleveland would get the return of Butler and KO for Love. Butler is absolutely worth more than Love, so that they also need Olynyk on top of Butler for Love?

I don't think I'd do Crowder, Jerebko, Olynyk, Young, 3 and 16 for Butler. I'm not sure I'd give up Crowder or the 3rd pick for Love at all, I'm certainly not giving up all those assets.

I'd rather have us do nothing than give up too much for Butler, that is even more true about Love.

Much of that is to create the required cap space to sign KD and Whiteside via our cap space. So let's say that getting Love would convince both of them to sign here, meaning you would have to give that much up anyways. Do you do it?

I mean, you do, but I find it hard to believe that KD is clamoring to play with Whiteside, and certainly Love's reputation has taken a hit recently.  I reject the premise.

If you really need to create the space (which you do to sign and trade for 3 players making a collective $69 million) you of course send out picks and players elsewhere for future picks.  But as in yesterday's discussion re: Butler, I question the wisdom of gutting the roster that much to get the third max contract guy to pair with KD and another max free agent.

I'm also pretty sure that this deal doesn't get the C's far enough under the cap for KD and Whiteside anyway, despite the amount sent out.  You can't forget when we get that short of a roster, cap holds of the minimum salary ($547k next year) get assigned to us for each roster spot under 12.  So even with clearing out all three firsts, Crowder, KO, and Young, not to mention Amir and JJ, our cap number exceeds $93 million.  I'm fairly sure you'd also need to send out Rozier to make it work.

As I said in the Butler-KD-Horford thread, I think the best course of action is to sell KD and second free agent (my choice is Horford) on joining a deeper roster with a little less top-end talent, and show them how you can get that top-end upgrade mid-season if the team needs it.  That, or people need to accept that the most affordable (cap wise) star is Cousins.

[Irish Stew]

Interesting idea that gives us scoring and both interior and perimeter defense. One technical question: Don't you have to allocate $500K+ for each empty roster spot below 12?

Sorry, I see that Saltlover was posting while I was composing.

[saltlover]

Interesting idea that gives us scoring and both interior and perimeter defense. One technical question: Don't you have to allocate $500K+ for each empty roster spot below 12?

Yes, you do.  See my post directly above yours.

[PickNRoll]

GL beating Cleveland for the next 6 years.  Kyrie, Butler and Lebron.  Ehh... might as well go into hiding if you're not a Cavs fan.

[jpotter33]

Not only is that a huge overpay but you have turned Cleveland into an almost unbeatable team for the next 3 to 5 years.  Butler and Lebron on the wings would be ridiculous.  K.O. would be the near perfect stretch 4 next to Lebron, Butler and Kyrie, low maintenance, hit open 3's and take easy buckets, good passer, plays defense and can defend the perimeter.  This entire forum has gone mad lol.

I mean, people were also saying that same thing in the summer of 2014, and look at us now lol Shameless plug - I was one of the few on here that didn't buy the Cleveland hype right off the bat, because I had serious concerns about their defense. Most people said I was just jealous of the Cavs team 

So, anything can happen. Butler would be a great fit there defensively, but it's still questionable how he'd fit offensively, especially not being a shooter and getting most of his points through ball-dominant isos or individual takes. I don't think he'd make them that much better where they'd be unbeatable.

[jpotter33]

Waaaaay too much for Love, imo. 3, 16, Crowder, Olynyk and Jerebko for Love?

No chance that Cleveland would get the return of Butler and KO for Love. Butler is absolutely worth more than Love, so that they also need Olynyk on top of Butler for Love?

I don't think I'd do Crowder, Jerebko, Olynyk, Young, 3 and 16 for Butler. I'm not sure I'd give up Crowder or the 3rd pick for Love at all, I'm certainly not giving up all those assets.

I'd rather have us do nothing than give up too much for Butler, that is even more true about Love.

Much of that is to create the required cap space to sign KD and Whiteside via our cap space. So let's say that getting Love would convince both of them to sign here, meaning you would have to give that much up anyways. Do you do it?

I mean, you do, but I find it hard to believe that KD is clamoring to play with Whiteside, and certainly Love's reputation has taken a hit recently.  I reject the premise.

If you really need to create the space (which you do to sign and trade for 3 players making a collective $69 million) you of course send out picks and players elsewhere for future picks.  But as in yesterday's discussion re: Butler, I question the wisdom of gutting the roster that much to get the third max contract guy to pair with KD and another max free agent.

I'm also pretty sure that this deal doesn't get the C's far enough under the cap for KD and Whiteside anyway, despite the amount sent out.  You can't forget when we get that short of a roster, cap holds of the minimum salary ($547k next year) get assigned to us for each roster spot under 12.  So even with clearing out all three firsts, Crowder, KO, and Young, not to mention Amir and JJ, our cap number exceeds $93 million.  I'm fairly sure you'd also need to send out Rozier to make it work.

As I said in the Butler-KD-Horford thread, I think the best course of action is to sell KD and second free agent (my choice is Horford) on joining a deeper roster with a little less top-end talent, and show them how you can get that top-end upgrade mid-season if the team needs it.  That, or people need to accept that the most affordable (cap wise) star is Cousins.

Oh, you can definitely question the premise. I myself don't necessarily believe that Love (with a value/reputation lower than it has ever been) and Whiteside (questionable, non-star reputation) would draw Durant. This was kind of just an idea I was throwing out there, but I'd certainly prefer several other players over Love and Whiteside, i.e. Horford, Butler, Cousins, etc.

However, I just really have a hard time believing that KD and Horford would come here by themselves without another major frontcourt addition. KD isn't going to come here to play the 4 alongside Horford at the 5, though I think that would ultimately be the best way to beat Golden State with a smaller lineup of IT/Smart, AB, Crowder, Durant, and Horford.

Also, it puts you in an awkward position for draft night with deciding who to pick, especially since you don't know which route to take. At least with a draft night trade like this you get proven value that you can work around. Who would you take in your scenario? Hield?

EDIT: And you're right about Cousins. I would love to get our hands on him, but I think it'll be another year and a half of them just missing the playoffs before he gets traded at the 2018 deadline.

[The Oracle]

Not only is that a huge overpay but you have turned Cleveland into an almost unbeatable team for the next 3 to 5 years.  Butler and Lebron on the wings would be ridiculous.  K.O. would be the near perfect stretch 4 next to Lebron, Butler and Kyrie, low maintenance, hit open 3's and take easy buckets, good passer, plays defense and can defend the perimeter.  This entire forum has gone mad lol.

I mean, people were also saying that same thing in the summer of 2014, and look at us now lol Shameless plug - I was one of the few on here that didn't buy the Cleveland hype right off the bat, because I had serious concerns about their defense. Most people said I was just jealous of the Cavs team 

So, anything can happen. Butler would be a great fit there defensively, but it's still questionable how he'd fit offensively, especially not being a shooter and getting most of his points through ball-dominant isos or individual takes. I don't think he'd make them that much better where they'd be unbeatable.

Butler is not a non shooter.  He is a career 32.8% from 3.  He has been surrounded by poor floor spacing for his entire time in Chicago (Noah, Gibson, Boozer....).  If you put him in a lineup surrounded by Lebron, Kyrie, K.O., Frye, Dellavedova etc. he is going to find many more wide open looks.  Cleveland's defense would improve a ton also, it would take a miracle to create a team in Boston in the next 3 or 4 years to compete with that.