Auerbach's Daughter: "In a way, I'm glad my father is not around to see this."

[Donoghus]

For any of you youngsters who think the old guard's opinions are irrelevant, just realize that, if you are lucky, your opinions will soon be irrelevant, too.

Not irrelevant (at least not any more irrelevant than anyone else's).  Just very, very predictable.  "Things were better before" has been the refrain of a large chunk of aging generations since the dawn of civilization.  I say this as a member of an aging generation myself who gets to hear it all the time.

Ha...I'm 35 and already complaining about the "[dang] Millennials" at work.

[fairweatherfan]

For any of you youngsters who think the old guard's opinions are irrelevant, just realize that, if you are lucky, your opinions will soon be irrelevant, too.

Not irrelevant (at least not any more irrelevant than anyone else's).  Just very, very predictable.  "Things were better before" has been the refrain of a large chunk of aging generations since the dawn of civilization.  I say this as a member of an aging generation myself who gets to hear it all the time.

Ha...I'm 35 and already complaining about the "[dang] Millennials" at work.

I'm 37, and just remember not too long ago we were those dang "kids these days".  Though I could never figure out if I was supposed to be Gen X or Gen Y or Gen Ampersand or whatever.  One of those in-between birth years.

I think the fastest turnaround I saw was when my then-21 year old cousin started complaining all the time about "these high school kids these days who don't respect anything" 

[Donoghus]

For any of you youngsters who think the old guard's opinions are irrelevant, just realize that, if you are lucky, your opinions will soon be irrelevant, too.

Not irrelevant (at least not any more irrelevant than anyone else's).  Just very, very predictable.  "Things were better before" has been the refrain of a large chunk of aging generations since the dawn of civilization.  I say this as a member of an aging generation myself who gets to hear it all the time.

Ha...I'm 35 and already complaining about the "[dang] Millennials" at work.

I'm 37, and just remember not too long ago we were those dang "kids these days".  Though I could never figure out if I was supposed to be Gen X or Gen Y or Gen Ampersand or whatever.  One of those in-between birth years.

I think the fastest turnaround I saw was when my then-21 year old cousin started complaining all the time about "these high school kids these days who don't respect anything" 

Yeah, I'm in the same boat. I've read varying accounts for when the cut-off for Generation X is and when the Millennial generation starts.  Either way, I've never really identified with either of them.

[aefgogreen]

The fact that there are dancers and a jumbotron don't take anything away from the game.  Bob Ryan said on the podcast that people come away not even knowing/caring what the score is.  Does he have any evidence to back this up or is this just another case of "in my day" type complaining?

And let's remember a few things about the how the garden used to be.  Despite all the winning in the 60's, the place was half full.  Yes, they filled up in the 80's, but from everything I've heard, it was about as diverse as the Oscar nominations. Having other events at the games draws in more people, but it doesn't mean people don't cheer as hard for a win.  If the worse thing that comes out of it is that people have a good time despite a loss, I'm totally cool with that.

[LHR]

"Times have changed" really is not much of an argument rather just a cliche statement to sound cool all while believing you've presented an argument.

We'd be pretty ignorant to believe that humanity is always on this upwards climb towards perfection, when in fact, throughout our history we've done many things that were wrong and believed them to be truly beneficial that have had catastrophic consequences.  Heck, for 30 years, our government and the medical industry peddled a low-fat diet on humanity and we're all pretty aware how detrimental that was.  There was also a period in history referred to as the Dark Ages where society was in a constant state of regression in the Western World for nearly 1,000 years.

I just can't accept "times have changed" as anything viable.

Best wishes,
LHR

[aefgogreen]

"Times have changed" really is not much of an argument rather just a cliche statement to sound cool all while believing you've presented an argument.

We'd be pretty ignorant to believe that humanity is always on this upwards climb towards perfection, when in fact, throughout our history we've done many things that were wrong and believed them to be truly beneficial that have had catastrophic consequences.  Heck, for 30 years, our government and the medical industry peddled a low-fat diet on humanity and we're all pretty aware how detrimental that was.  There was also a period in history referred to as the Dark Ages where society was in a constant state of regression in the Western World for nearly 1,000 years.

I just can't accept "times have changed" as anything viable.

Best wishes,
LHR

I'm pretty sure low fat diets are still recommended (to some extent).

[Dino Pitino]

The fact that there are dancers and a jumbotron don't take anything away from the game.  Bob Ryan said on the podcast that people come away not even knowing/caring what the score is.  Does he have any evidence to back this up or is this just another case of "in my day" type complaining?

He's wrong about the quiz, but there's some truth to all the diversions taking fans' minds off the game. "Taking away from the game" is a little strong. But taking fans' attention from the game is literally what the diversions do.

And let's remember a few things about the how the garden used to be.  Despite all the winning in the 60's, the place was half full.  Yes, they filled up in the 80's, but from everything I've heard, it was about as diverse as the Oscar nominations. Having other events at the games draws in more people, but it doesn't mean people don't cheer as hard for a win.  If the worse thing that comes out of it is that people have a good time despite a loss, I'm totally cool with that.

Somehow I don't think dancers and tshirt guns would've increased attendance in the 60's. The Celtics were great but the NBA was a less established league like MLS, professional basketball a less established sport. As for crowd diversity, um, are the crowds today really all that more diverse? And do more people really go to games they wouldn't go to, just because there's a quick magic act between quarters? I feel like all that stuff does is help keep a fraction of the casual fans from leaving early, maybe.

All the usual diversions should be scrapped in favor of 100% basketball-related and game-related diversions. Halfcourt shot contests are fine, I doubt purists Ryan and Auerbach object to that. Ditch the Kiss Cam and replace the Jumbotron screentime with informative highlights from that game or recent games. The diversions should always be relevant to the team, the game, the sport. Should seek to turn casual fans into better fans, not let them stay casual.

[fairweatherfan]

"Times have changed" really is not much of an argument rather just a cliche statement to sound cool all while believing you've presented an argument.

We'd be pretty ignorant to believe that humanity is always on this upwards climb towards perfection, when in fact, throughout our history we've done many things that were wrong and believed them to be truly beneficial that have had catastrophic consequences.  Heck, for 30 years, our government and the medical industry peddled a low-fat diet on humanity and we're all pretty aware how detrimental that was.  There was also a period in history referred to as the Dark Ages where society was in a constant state of regression in the Western World for nearly 1,000 years.

I just can't accept "times have changed" as anything viable.

Best wishes,
LHR

Please rank the following in terms of their detrimental effects on society:

- low-fat diets
- the Dark Ages
- Kiss-Cams at sporting events

[clover]

"Times have changed" really is not much of an argument rather just a cliche statement to sound cool all while believing you've presented an argument.

We'd be pretty ignorant to believe that humanity is always on this upwards climb towards perfection, when in fact, throughout our history we've done many things that were wrong and believed them to be truly beneficial that have had catastrophic consequences.  Heck, for 30 years, our government and the medical industry peddled a low-fat diet on humanity and we're all pretty aware how detrimental that was.  There was also a period in history referred to as the Dark Ages where society was in a constant state of regression in the Western World for nearly 1,000 years.

I just can't accept "times have changed" as anything viable.

Best wishes,
LHR

I'm pretty sure low fat diets are still recommended (to some extent).

Which continues what has been a disaster for us.

Excellent post, LHR.

[aefgogreen]

The fact that there are dancers and a jumbotron don't take anything away from the game.  Bob Ryan said on the podcast that people come away not even knowing/caring what the score is.  Does he have any evidence to back this up or is this just another case of "in my day" type complaining?

He's wrong about the quiz, but there's some truth to all the diversions taking fans' minds off the game. "Taking away from the game" is a little strong. But taking fans' attention from the game is literally what the diversions do.

And let's remember a few things about the how the garden used to be.  Despite all the winning in the 60's, the place was half full.  Yes, they filled up in the 80's, but from everything I've heard, it was about as diverse as the Oscar nominations. Having other events at the games draws in more people, but it doesn't mean people don't cheer as hard for a win.  If the worse thing that comes out of it is that people have a good time despite a loss, I'm totally cool with that.

Somehow I don't think dancers and tshirt guns would've increased attendance in the 60's. The Celtics were great but the NBA was a less established league like MLS, professional basketball a less established sport. As for crowd diversity, um, are the crowds today really all that more diverse? And do more people really go to games they wouldn't go to, just because there's a quick magic act between quarters? I feel like all that stuff does is help keep a fraction of the casual fans from leaving early, maybe.

All the usual diversions should be scrapped in favor of 100% basketball-related and game-related diversions. Halfcourt shot contests are fine, I doubt purists Ryan and Auerbach object to that. Ditch the Kiss Cam and replace the Jumbotron screentime with informative highlights from that game or recent games. The diversions should always be relevant to the team, the game, the sport. Should seek to turn casual fans into better fans, not let them stay casual.

Good points all around, but I do think the non-basketball stuff could bring in fans that might not go.  This holds especially true for kid-friendly events. The kiss cam is not my cup of tea, but I don't think it hurts in any way (unless you get rejected on camera, but that's another story).  I believe (and please correct me if I'm wrong) that the Celtics got better attendance on the road.  Now, these other teams did not have the theatrics either, but my point is that just because it is different now doesn't mean it has made things worse.  And I do believe that crowds now are more diverse.

[fairweatherfan]

"Times have changed" really is not much of an argument rather just a cliche statement to sound cool all while believing you've presented an argument.

We'd be pretty ignorant to believe that humanity is always on this upwards climb towards perfection, when in fact, throughout our history we've done many things that were wrong and believed them to be truly beneficial that have had catastrophic consequences.  Heck, for 30 years, our government and the medical industry peddled a low-fat diet on humanity and we're all pretty aware how detrimental that was.  There was also a period in history referred to as the Dark Ages where society was in a constant state of regression in the Western World for nearly 1,000 years.

I just can't accept "times have changed" as anything viable.

Best wishes,
LHR

I'm pretty sure low fat diets are still recommended (to some extent).

Which continues what has been a disaster for us.

Excellent post, LHR.

It's pretty much a textbook example of a strawman argument.  Oh, do you shrug at changes to how this entertainment product is presented?  Clearly you believe that society always changes for the better across all domains in perpetuity.  But what about the Dark Ages?  Checkmate!  It's as much of a cliched non-argument as the fictitious position being criticized.

[GC003332]

5 cheerleaders or 30 cheerleaders , wouldn't have made any difference to Red at his advanced age, if they had introduced them before he passed away.If you catch my drift.
Back in the day , it used to be about the on court product, the game has now turned into a basketball/entertainment.Everyone and their dogs uncle want a slice of the leagues billions, can't keep the wolves at bay, sometimes just tapping someone on the shoulder isn't enough to get their attention, you have to apply a sledgehammer to really get their attention.
Total overkill , but people are getting their 15 minutes of fame performing in front of those actually looking up from their phones and whatnot.
Hey even bench stiffs are getting exposure with their dance moves and elaborate hand shakes, all part of NBA Entertainment.

Shame that all gets accepted as the norm nowadays, Money corrupts , attention Edited.  Profanity and masked profanity are against forum rules and may result in discipline.s goin Edited.  Profanity and masked profanity are against forum rules and may result in discipline..

End of rant 

[DarkAzcura]

For any of you youngsters who think the old guard's opinions are irrelevant, just realize that, if you are lucky, your opinions will soon be irrelevant, too.

Not irrelevant (at least not any more irrelevant than anyone else's).  Just very, very predictable.  "Things were better before" has been the refrain of a large chunk of aging generations since the dawn of civilization.  I say this as a member of an aging generation myself who gets to hear it all the time.

Ha...I'm 35 and already complaining about the "[dang] Millennials" at work.

I hate to break it to you, but you are a (borderline) millennial, haha. The cutoff point for millennials is around 1980-1982 for birth year.

[Donoghus]

For any of you youngsters who think the old guard's opinions are irrelevant, just realize that, if you are lucky, your opinions will soon be irrelevant, too.

Not irrelevant (at least not any more irrelevant than anyone else's).  Just very, very predictable.  "Things were better before" has been the refrain of a large chunk of aging generations since the dawn of civilization.  I say this as a member of an aging generation myself who gets to hear it all the time.

Ha...I'm 35 and already complaining about the "[dang] Millennials" at work.

I hate to break it to you, but you are a (borderline) millennial, haha. The cutoff point for millennials is around 1980-1982 for birth year.

Yeah, I've been myself labeled as both generations. Like I mentioned before, I've seen different cut-offs. Regardless, I think being in that "gap" has really made me feel like neither (late 70s/early 80s is a weird no man's land) and I certainly don't see myself similar to what kids born in the early to mid nineties are (my staf & interns).