kelly doesn't foul like tough guy

[rollie mass]

i think the refs react to kelly's pushing and shoving as from a position of weakness and they are clumsy
if his fouls were of more aggressive nature like the refs are used to not calling for sake of ruining the game
 maybe the hair, his body laguage all says call it
,its almost like the refs bully him or
 compensate for non calls of the aggressive variety
the front office should complain to the league that kelly is targeted for ticky tack fouls
i hope appearing in all star festivities gets him more positive press and some spotlight
and what about those phantom travels while others get to run half the court before being called
,lifting the pivot foot before ball hits court is as common as the carrying the ball in modern nba

[trickybilly]

This is one aspect of refereeing that really bugs me. If there is a drive from straight away three towards the corner and try to turn the corner, then the defender will track back and across (sideways). He is always moving sideways. When his movement backwards slows contact occurs. It would seem that the only way to justify the charge call is if all sideways movement has stopped and the driving player is moving forward faster than the defender is retreating. This seems logical and preferable. The reality is thought that VERY rarely has all sideways movement stopped and the call should be a block, indeed the only time a charge should be justified is when the driver changes direction (toward the basket) and the defender predicts it and truly has position. KO always tries to stay close to a driving guard and harrassing him and he, in my opinion, deserves all these blocking fouls.

Basically i just think far too many charges are awarded, (where blocking fouls or no call should be awarded) and ESPECIALLY to home teams who are mounting a late comeback and need a stop. Great for the spectacle but logically indefensible.

It also helps to explain the homecourt phenomenom. I note that FLCelts routinely includes officiating as an X-factor, and this is the prime example. Add to this that these calls are not reviewed within 2 minutes, although im not 100% on that.

[rollie mass]

rollie massimino taught us the art, a masterclass of drawing offensive fouls and it cost us the semi-finals of tech tourney-no high school kids in new england had a coach of this caliber-maybe killilea at melrose who became a celtic assistant coach
 we drew 6 offensive fouls in first half and the 2nd half the refs called them all blocking -we lost by one point with 8 seconds for the last shot-we had again had drills for how long this was to get up a shot but adrenilin must have kicked in and the shot was rushed
those officials cost us,they must have all got together at halftime

[The Oracle]

  Foul rates for the C's per 36.  Zeller 5.8, K.O. 4.4, Amir 4.3, Jerebko 4.2, Sully 4.1, Lee 3.9.  There are 30 players that have played 400 minutes or more this year with higher foul rates than K.O. including Nene, Bogut, Henson, Baynes, Koufus, Leonard, Len, Mahinmi, Ezeli, Hibbert, Garnett, Splitter, Capela and Mozgov.  Do they hate those guys hair and clumsiness also?  K.O. is leading the league (or very close to it) in shots defended per minute played and plays very aggressive defense.  You are going to draw fouls when you do so and it is in no way a negative event.  I would be much more worried about big men with low foul rates than high ones as this would be a sign they aren't playing aggressively enough.

[CelticPride2016]

Kelly seems much better this year at not making dumb fouls out of desperation. That of course hasn't stopped refs from making bad calls on him.

I think it has had more to do with Kelly being young and having to learn the center position from scratch after the late growth spurt.

I don't think the hair has anything to do with it. Maybe when he is lacking for confidence, his body language influences refs.

I think this has to do with the referee star system.

Perk used to get a raw deal with something. Then Doc spoke to the league office and said the refs were misinterpreting one of Perk's legal moves. Something like that.

If Kelly keeps producing, I think the weird calls will lessen. I recall Paul Pierce for all his truthness never seemed to get much love from refs compared to the more glamorous stars. Maybe body image has something to do with it. I also think Olynyk is not as clumsy looking as he was when first entering the league. And I don't remember Bill Walton having problems with the ref and he had very long hair and was notorious for smoking weed while at UCLA practices, or it was a rumor. I am not sure. That Wooden allowed it or something.

Guys have tattoos. There was no one more wacky looking than BirdMan. Maybe Rollie is correct that Olynyk and it's seen with Zeller too they often make pathetic reaches defending at the rim. That is a point I agree with. If you're going to foul someone, make sure the shot doesn't go in. Don't foul and let them score if there's no way to defend it. Learn to fight on into the next possessions.

[Alleyoopster]

One thing I'm happy about is that this year he's not purposely committing excessively hard contact fouls. He used to make contact and use his weight/strength to make the contact greater than it needed to be. Seemed like he was trying to make a point that he was a tough guy or something. Didn't make sense as his fouls were not helping the team.

As for the refs this year I am amazed at how non-reactive many players are at many of these ludicrous calls. Kelly looks perplexed at some of these calls, but many other players don't react at all. Marcus sometimes keeps such a straight face you wonder if the refs blind-sight even registered in his psyche.

A couple games back either Tommy or Scal commented on how Stevens didn't even acknowledge the ref's interpretation of a blown call. He knew whatever the ref said was nonsensical.   

[Jon]

Come on! The guy brutally ripped Kevin Love's arm from its socket last year! He's practically a modern day Beowulf! 

[rollie mass]

  Foul rates for the C's per 36.  Zeller 5.8, K.O. 4.4, Amir 4.3, Jerebko 4.2, Sully 4.1, Lee 3.9.  There are 30 players that have played 400 minutes or more this year with higher foul rates than K.O. including Nene, Bogut, Henson, Baynes, Koufus, Leonard, Len, Mahinmi, Ezeli, Hibbert, Garnett, Splitter, Capela and Mozgov.  Do they hate those guys hair and clumsiness also?  K.O. is leading the league (or very close to it) in shots defended per minute played and plays very aggressive defense.  You are going to draw fouls when you do so and it is in no way a negative event.  I would be much more worried about big men with low foul rates than high ones as this would be a sign they aren't playing aggressively enough.

a big TP for this info---but of those fouls, how many are phantom and the hair was in jest but marcus is allowed to bulldoze while kelly has a different set of rules-there is an art to not picking up fouls but it must be abstract-

[Alleyoopster]

This is weird...anyone in this group ever(honestly) believe Olynyk would become a half decent defender? 

[SHAQATTACK]

He isn't a tuff guy.......LOL

KG .....now could put an old school foul on a man ...or Perk.

[The Oracle]

This is weird...anyone in this group ever(honestly) believe Olynyk would become a half decent defender? 

In my mind there was not a chance in the world he would ever become an above average defender!  Maybe he might of become a decent defender or at least not kill you, but no way what he has become.  I really think people are having a very hard time accepting it and recognizing it.  The evidence is there though, it is clear he makes a very positive impact on both ends of the floor.

[CelticPride2016]

This is weird...anyone in this group ever(honestly) believe Olynyk would become a half decent defender? 

In my mind there was not a chance in the world he would ever become an above average defender!  Maybe he might of become a decent defender or at least not kill you, but no way what he has become.  I really think people are having a very hard time accepting it and recognizing it.  The evidence is there though, it is clear he makes a very positive impact on both ends of the floor.

Kelly definitely looked shaky on defense year one. He did show enough offensive spunk to represent a Kevin Love type hide him on defense strategy.

Last year he definitely showed improvement at D, maybe to start thinking he could handle PF defense. It's all about team defense and rotating. We don't need the greatest defenders if they are average and can be gritty on nearly every defensive position.

I have the game on for volume while writing this. I look forward to this game.

So I'll wrap this up.

I am not as surprised about Olynyk as most. I am not trying to be an obnoxious arrogant I told you so.

These players are coming out after one year. Kelly played more college ball, but he used to be a six foot three pg.

The big shift was not this off-season, but the one before when he started lifting weights. It's funny, but to me it seems he has surpassed Zeller for center defense. I think people are crazy to not see the out of this world potential of Kelly Olynyk.

Yes, for this specific topic, I am looking good. I know one must assume I'm not making this up.

He toned his body. He is on schedule. He is the right age and temperament for Brad Stevens to teach his core the secret recipe.

Danny would be nuts to bundle this kind of trajectory into DeMarcus Cousins and I'll go nuts if we end up with Kevin Love.

[Alleyoopster]

This is weird...anyone in this group ever(honestly) believe Olynyk would become a half decent defender? 

In my mind there was not a chance in the world he would ever become an above average defender!  Maybe he might of become a decent defender or at least not kill you, but no way what he has become.  I really think people are having a very hard time accepting it and recognizing it.  The evidence is there though, it is clear he makes a very positive impact on both ends of the floor.

Kelly definitely looked shaky on defense year one. He did show enough offensive spunk to represent a Kevin Love type hide him on defense strategy.

Last year he definitely showed improvement at D, maybe to start thinking he could handle PF defense. It's all about team defense and rotating. We don't need the greatest defenders if they are average and can be gritty on nearly every defensive position.

I have the game on for volume while writing this. I look forward to this game.

So I'll wrap this up.

I am not as surprised about Olynyk as most. I am not trying to be an obnoxious arrogant I told you so.

These players are coming out after one year. Kelly played more college ball, but he used to be a six foot three pg.

The big shift was not this off-season, but the one before when he started lifting weights. It's funny, but to me it seems he has surpassed Zeller for center defense. I think people are crazy to not see the out of this world potential of Kelly Olynyk.

Yes, for this specific topic, I am looking good. I know one must assume I'm not making this up.

He toned his body. He is on schedule. He is the right age and temperament for Brad Stevens to teach his core the secret recipe.

Danny would be nuts to bundle this kind of trajectory into DeMarcus Cousins and I'll go nuts if we end up with Kevin Love.

My hat's off to you. Never would have dreamed he would have had a chance to develop into a decent defender given his rookie year performance. My feeling was that he already had four years of college ball and his father was a basketball coach. If he hadn't learned to play defense with that experience and background......he never would.

[SHAQATTACK]

KO ...new Manimal.