Time to accept reality of Celtics' situation

[Evantime34]

If the C's don't improve at all during free agency I will be shocked. We have over $20 MM and whether we use it to sign two quality free agents or take on money/quality players in a trade we will get better. I'd also like us to make a trade to consolidate our guard situation.

Anyway I'm not expecting immediate contention. All I want for next year is incremental improvement from last year, both in the development of players and the team as a whole

[Chief]

If the C's don't improve at all during free agency I will be shocked. We have over $20 MM and whether we use it to sign two quality free agents or take on money/quality players in a trade we will get better. I'd also like us to make a trade to consolidate our guard situation.

Anyway I'm not expecting immediate contention. All I want for next year is incremental improvement from last year, both in the development of players and the team as a whole

We should have used some of those picks to entice someone to take Gerald Wallace's contract. I'd rather have the cap room for free agents than any of those picks.

[winsomme]

If the C's don't improve at all during free agency I will be shocked. We have over $20 MM and whether we use it to sign two quality free agents or take on money/quality players in a trade we will get better. I'd also like us to make a trade to consolidate our guard situation.

Anyway I'm not expecting immediate contention. All I want for next year is incremental improvement from last year, both in the development of players and the team as a whole

Incremental improvement isn't really a thing in the NBA IMO. Middle of the pack teams tend to live there for many, many years.

The only way out is to develop an all-star caliber player or two like GS did. But that isn't any more likely than winning the draft lottery IMO and takes a really long time.

So where does that leave us? For me, if I were Danny, I wouldn't sign any FAs that command a lot of money (eg Tobias Harris). I would get to the league minimum for team salary and hope that one of our young players surprises and turns into a player.

The risk is that Stevens will leave, but honestly, that's gonna happen anyways if you start signing the Tobias Harrises of the the world.

Danny's plan to never let the team get truly bad just isn't working. We're not appealing to legit all-star FAs and our assets aren't appealing to other teams. The FO might be totally on target about Rozier, but that's at least two years away before it comes anywhere near to fruition.

Time to legit rebuild.

[GreenPride17]

If the C's don't improve at all during free agency I will be shocked. We have over $20 MM and whether we use it to sign two quality free agents or take on money/quality players in a trade we will get better. I'd also like us to make a trade to consolidate our guard situation.

Anyway I'm not expecting immediate contention. All I want for next year is incremental improvement from last year, both in the development of players and the team as a whole

I would've been shocked last week if we din't do anything in free agency but after all of the Draft Buzz about trading up for Turner to WCS to Okafor. I wouldn't be surprised if all we did was resign our own free agents because nobody was interested in coming

[Rondo9]

If the C's don't improve at all during free agency I will be shocked. We have over $20 MM and whether we use it to sign two quality free agents or take on money/quality players in a trade we will get better. I'd also like us to make a trade to consolidate our guard situation.

Anyway I'm not expecting immediate contention. All I want for next year is incremental improvement from last year, both in the development of players and the team as a whole

Incremental improvement isn't really a thing in the NBA IMO. Middle of the pack teams tend to live there for many, many years.

The only way out is to develop an all-star caliber player or two like GS did. But that isn't any more likely than winning the draft lottery IMO and takes a really long time.

So where does that leave us? For me, if I were Danny, I wouldn't sign any FAs that command a lot of money (eg Tobias Harris). I would get to the league minimum for team salary and hope that one of our young players surprises and turns into a player.

The risk is that Stevens will leave, but honestly, that's gonna happen anyways if you start signing the Tobias Harrises of the the world.

Danny's plan to never let the team get truly bad just isn't working. We're not appealing to legit all-star FAs and our assets aren't appealing to other teams. The FO might be totally on target about Rozier, but that's at least two years away before it comes anywhere near to fruition.

Time to legit rebuild.

They are rebuilding, it's not what you want.

[Evantime34]

If the C's don't improve at all during free agency I will be shocked. We have over $20 MM and whether we use it to sign two quality free agents or take on money/quality players in a trade we will get better. I'd also like us to make a trade to consolidate our guard situation.

Anyway I'm not expecting immediate contention. All I want for next year is incremental improvement from last year, both in the development of players and the team as a whole

Incremental improvement isn't really a thing in the NBA IMO. Middle of the pack teams tend to live there for many, many years.

The only way out is to develop an all-star caliber player or two like GS did. But that isn't any more likely than winning the draft lottery IMO and takes a really long time.

So where does that leave us? For me, if I were Danny, I wouldn't sign any FAs that command a lot of money (eg Tobias Harris). I would get to the league minimum for team salary and hope that one of our young players surprises and turns into a player.

The risk is that Stevens will leave, but honestly, that's gonna happen anyways if you start signing the Tobias Harrises of the the world.

Danny's plan to never let the team get truly bad just isn't working. We're not appealing to legit all-star FAs and our assets aren't appealing to other teams. The FO might be totally on target about Rozier, but that's at least two years away before it comes anywhere near to fruition.

Time to legit rebuild.

Middle of the pack teams that stay there becasue they have hit their peak as a team. We have financial flexibility, draft picks and solid young guys.

 If we are replacing Jerebko and Bass with two quality free agents and Datome, Babb and Pressey with Hunter, Rozier and Mickey then we will be better than last year. If you include roster improvement with player development we will be better next year than we were last year. Then when we have 4 potential firsts next year (any of which could be a lottery pick) which will help us be better in 2017 than we were in 2016.

Purgatory isn't automatic, it comes upon teams that have a lack of ways to get better.

[JHTruth]

Free agency or bust

Yeah sure haha..

Celtics are screwed. They'll get the 8 seed next year and draft at 15. nets pick will be 14 or something. No free agents in a sound mental state would come here unless we max out an MLE guy. Our picks are obviously worth jackall if 6 of them can't secure 9 in the draft. We're stuck in NBA hell for the foreseeable future as all teams have cap space next year.

Just laugh and crack a beer, we're going to be awhile..

[Grindfather]

If the C's don't improve at all during free agency I will be shocked. We have over $20 MM and whether we use it to sign two quality free agents or take on money/quality players in a trade we will get better. I'd also like us to make a trade to consolidate our guard situation.

Anyway I'm not expecting immediate contention. All I want for next year is incremental improvement from last year, both in the development of players and the team as a whole

We should have used some of those picks to entice someone to take Gerald Wallace's contract. I'd rather have the cap room for free agents than any of those picks.

There's no reason to clear that cap space until you need to. When you get an agreement from a free agent, that's when you give up an asset (pick or young player) to clear Wallace, not before.  Think about it. Why would you create extra cap space if you ultimately don't need it. You end up flapping in the wind if you can't sign anyone. Cleveland only made the deal to get rid of Jack, the deal that netted us IT and Zeller, when they were sure LeBron was coming back.

[LilRip]

To make that jump into almost contender, you need to get lucky. If we're not getting there via the draft, then hopefully we can make a splash in FA like what the Rockets were able to do with Harden.

[winsomme]

If the C's don't improve at all during free agency I will be shocked. We have over $20 MM and whether we use it to sign two quality free agents or take on money/quality players in a trade we will get better. I'd also like us to make a trade to consolidate our guard situation.

Anyway I'm not expecting immediate contention. All I want for next year is incremental improvement from last year, both in the development of players and the team as a whole

Incremental improvement isn't really a thing in the NBA IMO. Middle of the pack teams tend to live there for many, many years.

The only way out is to develop an all-star caliber player or two like GS did. But that isn't any more likely than winning the draft lottery IMO and takes a really long time.

So where does that leave us? For me, if I were Danny, I wouldn't sign any FAs that command a lot of money (eg Tobias Harris). I would get to the league minimum for team salary and hope that one of our young players surprises and turns into a player.

The risk is that Stevens will leave, but honestly, that's gonna happen anyways if you start signing the Tobias Harrises of the the world.

Danny's plan to never let the team get truly bad just isn't working. We're not appealing to legit all-star FAs and our assets aren't appealing to other teams. The FO might be totally on target about Rozier, but that's at least two years away before it comes anywhere near to fruition.

Time to legit rebuild.

Middle of the pack teams that stay there becasue they have hit their peak as a team. We have financial flexibility, draft picks and solid young guys.

 If we are replacing Jerebko and Bass with two quality free agents and Datome, Babb and Pressey with Hunter, Rozier and Mickey then we will be better than last year. If you include roster improvement with player development we will be better next year than we were last year. Then when we have 4 potential firsts next year (any of which could be a lottery pick) which will help us be better in 2017 than we were in 2016.

Purgatory isn't automatic, it comes upon teams that have a lack of ways to get better.

But financial flexibility to sign who? Robin Lopez and Tobias Harris? Those kinds of moves would be a death blow IMO. If top FAs don't want to sign here, then financial flexibility doesn't really get you anywhere.

Plus, I don't really know what "solid young guys" means. If one or two of our draft picks doesn't turn into an all-star, then all "solid young guys" means is role players.

Finally, draft picks. I think this off season has shown the value of draft picks in trade scenarios. Sure we could actually make the picks and then try to develop them, but how many picks can you actually fit into a roster and then develop?

Sully, Avery, KO, Young, Smart, Zeller, IT, Rozier, Hunter, Mickey. That's ten right there. How many more can we add? You might say that we can trade some, but for what? None of them is even remotely developed yet. Is there even one clear all-star in that mix at this point?

Danny needs to stop trying to serve two masters. If we are going to try and develop talent, then go that route. Enough with "fireworks" conversations, just dig in and do a proper rebuild.

That's how I see it, anyway...

[winsomme]

If the C's don't improve at all during free agency I will be shocked. We have over $20 MM and whether we use it to sign two quality free agents or take on money/quality players in a trade we will get better. I'd also like us to make a trade to consolidate our guard situation.

Anyway I'm not expecting immediate contention. All I want for next year is incremental improvement from last year, both in the development of players and the team as a whole

Incremental improvement isn't really a thing in the NBA IMO. Middle of the pack teams tend to live there for many, many years.

The only way out is to develop an all-star caliber player or two like GS did. But that isn't any more likely than winning the draft lottery IMO and takes a really long time.

So where does that leave us? For me, if I were Danny, I wouldn't sign any FAs that command a lot of money (eg Tobias Harris). I would get to the league minimum for team salary and hope that one of our young players surprises and turns into a player.

The risk is that Stevens will leave, but honestly, that's gonna happen anyways if you start signing the Tobias Harrises of the the world.

Danny's plan to never let the team get truly bad just isn't working. We're not appealing to legit all-star FAs and our assets aren't appealing to other teams. The FO might be totally on target about Rozier, but that's at least two years away before it comes anywhere near to fruition.

Time to legit rebuild.

They are rebuilding, it's not what you want.

Yeah, but Danny is trying to do it on the fly IMO using smoke and mirrors and of all people, MJ called his bluff....

[Evantime34]

If the C's don't improve at all during free agency I will be shocked. We have over $20 MM and whether we use it to sign two quality free agents or take on money/quality players in a trade we will get better. I'd also like us to make a trade to consolidate our guard situation.

Anyway I'm not expecting immediate contention. All I want for next year is incremental improvement from last year, both in the development of players and the team as a whole

Incremental improvement isn't really a thing in the NBA IMO. Middle of the pack teams tend to live there for many, many years.

The only way out is to develop an all-star caliber player or two like GS did. But that isn't any more likely than winning the draft lottery IMO and takes a really long time.

So where does that leave us? For me, if I were Danny, I wouldn't sign any FAs that command a lot of money (eg Tobias Harris). I would get to the league minimum for team salary and hope that one of our young players surprises and turns into a player.

The risk is that Stevens will leave, but honestly, that's gonna happen anyways if you start signing the Tobias Harrises of the the world.

Danny's plan to never let the team get truly bad just isn't working. We're not appealing to legit all-star FAs and our assets aren't appealing to other teams. The FO might be totally on target about Rozier, but that's at least two years away before it comes anywhere near to fruition.

Time to legit rebuild.

Middle of the pack teams that stay there becasue they have hit their peak as a team. We have financial flexibility, draft picks and solid young guys.

 If we are replacing Jerebko and Bass with two quality free agents and Datome, Babb and Pressey with Hunter, Rozier and Mickey then we will be better than last year. If you include roster improvement with player development we will be better next year than we were last year. Then when we have 4 potential firsts next year (any of which could be a lottery pick) which will help us be better in 2017 than we were in 2016.

Purgatory isn't automatic, it comes upon teams that have a lack of ways to get better.

But financial flexibility to sign who? Robin Lopez and Tobias Harris? Those kinds of moves would be a death blow IMO. If top FAs don't want to sign here, then financial flexibility doesn't really get you anywhere.

Plus, I don't really know what "solid young guys" means. If one or two of our draft picks doesn't turn into an all-star, then all "solid young guys" means is role players.

Finally, draft picks. I think this off season has shown the value of draft picks in trade scenarios. Sure we could actually make the picks and then try to develop them, but how many picks can you actually fit into a roster and then develop?

Sully, Avery, KO, Young, Smart, Zeller, IT, Rozier, Hunter, Mickey. That's ten right there. How many more can we add? You might say that we can trade some, but for what? None of them is even remotely developed yet. Is there even one clear all-star in that mix at this point?

Danny needs to stop trying to serve two masters. If we are going to try and develop talent, then go that route. Enough with "fireworks" conversations, just dig in and do a proper rebuild.

That's how I see it, anyway...

So if we sign, a player like Tobias Harris, and he improves along the same progression. Then he can be the type of player that headlines a package for a superstar.

By solid young players I mean the type of players that can develop into a key piece in a trade for a star.

Ainge has always been of the mind that you draft players, develop them then when the situation arises he packages them with picks for a star. That is how we got KG. That is how the Rockets got James Harden.

I expect some of the 10 guys you listed to be consolidated via trade before the year is over.

As long as we are adding assets, then consolidating them into better assets over the course of several years we can eventually get to the point where we are contending.

[winsomme]

If the C's don't improve at all during free agency I will be shocked. We have over $20 MM and whether we use it to sign two quality free agents or take on money/quality players in a trade we will get better. I'd also like us to make a trade to consolidate our guard situation.

Anyway I'm not expecting immediate contention. All I want for next year is incremental improvement from last year, both in the development of players and the team as a whole

Incremental improvement isn't really a thing in the NBA IMO. Middle of the pack teams tend to live there for many, many years.

The only way out is to develop an all-star caliber player or two like GS did. But that isn't any more likely than winning the draft lottery IMO and takes a really long time.

So where does that leave us? For me, if I were Danny, I wouldn't sign any FAs that command a lot of money (eg Tobias Harris). I would get to the league minimum for team salary and hope that one of our young players surprises and turns into a player.

The risk is that Stevens will leave, but honestly, that's gonna happen anyways if you start signing the Tobias Harrises of the the world.

Danny's plan to never let the team get truly bad just isn't working. We're not appealing to legit all-star FAs and our assets aren't appealing to other teams. The FO might be totally on target about Rozier, but that's at least two years away before it comes anywhere near to fruition.

Time to legit rebuild.

Middle of the pack teams that stay there becasue they have hit their peak as a team. We have financial flexibility, draft picks and solid young guys.

 If we are replacing Jerebko and Bass with two quality free agents and Datome, Babb and Pressey with Hunter, Rozier and Mickey then we will be better than last year. If you include roster improvement with player development we will be better next year than we were last year. Then when we have 4 potential firsts next year (any of which could be a lottery pick) which will help us be better in 2017 than we were in 2016.

Purgatory isn't automatic, it comes upon teams that have a lack of ways to get better.

But financial flexibility to sign who? Robin Lopez and Tobias Harris? Those kinds of moves would be a death blow IMO. If top FAs don't want to sign here, then financial flexibility doesn't really get you anywhere.

Plus, I don't really know what "solid young guys" means. If one or two of our draft picks doesn't turn into an all-star, then all "solid young guys" means is role players.

Finally, draft picks. I think this off season has shown the value of draft picks in trade scenarios. Sure we could actually make the picks and then try to develop them, but how many picks can you actually fit into a roster and then develop?

Sully, Avery, KO, Young, Smart, Zeller, IT, Rozier, Hunter, Mickey. That's ten right there. How many more can we add? You might say that we can trade some, but for what? None of them is even remotely developed yet. Is there even one clear all-star in that mix at this point?

Danny needs to stop trying to serve two masters. If we are going to try and develop talent, then go that route. Enough with "fireworks" conversations, just dig in and do a proper rebuild.

That's how I see it, anyway...

So if we sign, a player like Tobias Harris, and he improves along the same progression. Then he can be the type of player that headlines a package for a superstar.

By solid young players I mean the type of players that can develop into a key piece in a trade for a star.

Ainge has always been of the mind that you draft players, develop them then when the situation arises he packages them with picks for a star. That is how we got KG. That is how the Rockets got James Harden.

I expect some of the 10 guys you listed to be consolidated via trade before the year is over.

As long as we are adding assets, then consolidating them into better assets over the course of several years we can eventually get to the point where we are contending.

My problem with your plan is the "package for a star" part. I just don't think it works that way.

It's similar to the "package for a lotto pick" strategy that Danny just tried. Quantity does not land you quality.

Sure, we could consolidate some of those guys, but honestly that's one of my big problems with Danny's plan. Stop consolidating. He told us he likes these young players he's drafted, so stay with them and develop them. Stop the turnstiles.

If we actually kept some of these players and tried to develop them, then one of two things happens: we either develop a legit all-star player (which is an actual asset) or we stink and we get a top pick (which is an actual asset).

Right now all our assets are middling at best (except for Smart who coincidentally was a top pick).

I wish your plan would work ET, and maybe Danny will continue to go your route and prove me wrong. But from where I'm sitting, this current course is just leading us to the land of mediocrity.

[Future Celtics Owner]

If the C's don't improve at all during free agency I will be shocked. We have over $20 MM and whether we use it to sign two quality free agents or take on money/quality players in a trade we will get better. I'd also like us to make a trade to consolidate our guard situation.

Anyway I'm not expecting immediate contention. All I want for next year is incremental improvement from last year, both in the development of players and the team as a whole

Incremental improvement isn't really a thing in the NBA IMO. Middle of the pack teams tend to live there for many, many years.

The only way out is to develop an all-star caliber player or two like GS did. But that isn't any more likely than winning the draft lottery IMO and takes a really long time.

So where does that leave us? For me, if I were Danny, I wouldn't sign any FAs that command a lot of money (eg Tobias Harris). I would get to the league minimum for team salary and hope that one of our young players surprises and turns into a player.

The risk is that Stevens will leave, but honestly, that's gonna happen anyways if you start signing the Tobias Harrises of the the world.

Danny's plan to never let the team get truly bad just isn't working. We're not appealing to legit all-star FAs and our assets aren't appealing to other teams. The FO might be totally on target about Rozier, but that's at least two years away before it comes anywhere near to fruition.

Time to legit rebuild.

Middle of the pack teams that stay there becasue they have hit their peak as a team. We have financial flexibility, draft picks and solid young guys.

 If we are replacing Jerebko and Bass with two quality free agents and Datome, Babb and Pressey with Hunter, Rozier and Mickey then we will be better than last year. If you include roster improvement with player development we will be better next year than we were last year. Then when we have 4 potential firsts next year (any of which could be a lottery pick) which will help us be better in 2017 than we were in 2016.

Purgatory isn't automatic, it comes upon teams that have a lack of ways to get better.

But financial flexibility to sign who? Robin Lopez and Tobias Harris? Those kinds of moves would be a death blow IMO. If top FAs don't want to sign here, then financial flexibility doesn't really get you anywhere.

Plus, I don't really know what "solid young guys" means. If one or two of our draft picks doesn't turn into an all-star, then all "solid young guys" means is role players.

Finally, draft picks. I think this off season has shown the value of draft picks in trade scenarios. Sure we could actually make the picks and then try to develop them, but how many picks can you actually fit into a roster and then develop?

Sully, Avery, KO, Young, Smart, Zeller, IT, Rozier, Hunter, Mickey. That's ten right there. How many more can we add? You might say that we can trade some, but for what? None of them is even remotely developed yet. Is there even one clear all-star in that mix at this point?

Danny needs to stop trying to serve two masters. If we are going to try and develop talent, then go that route. Enough with "fireworks" conversations, just dig in and do a proper rebuild.

That's how I see it, anyway...

So if we sign, a player like Tobias Harris, and he improves along the same progression. Then he can be the type of player that headlines a package for a superstar.

By solid young players I mean the type of players that can develop into a key piece in a trade for a star.

Ainge has always been of the mind that you draft players, develop them then when the situation arises he packages them with picks for a star. That is how we got KG. That is how the Rockets got James Harden.

I expect some of the 10 guys you listed to be consolidated via trade before the year is over.

As long as we are adding assets, then consolidating them into better assets over the course of several years we can eventually get to the point where we are contending.

My problem with your plan is the "package for a star" part. I just don't think it works that way.

It's similar to the "package for a lotto pick" strategy that Danny just tried. Quantity does not land you quality.

Sure, we could consolidate some of those guys, but honestly that's one of my big problems with Danny's plan. Stop consolidating. He told us he likes these young players he's drafted, so stay with them and develop them. Stop the turnstiles.

If we actually kept some of these players and tried to develop them, then one of two things happens: we either develop a legit all-star player (which is an actual asset) or we stink and we get a top pick (which is an actual asset).

Right now all our assets are middling at best (except for Smart who coincidentally was a top pick).

I wish your plan would work ET, and maybe Danny will continue to go your route and prove me wrong. But from where I'm sitting, this current course is just leading us to the land of mediocrity.

So its time to trade Avery, ET, IT, and truly rebuild. This draft was our chance to finally get a center/ legit big man; and we messed it up by wanting to stay flexible. We have no all stars on the team, why the hell do we want to stay flexible.

[OhioGreen]

I guess I feel this way partly because I have no choice.  Every year, though, there are one or two or three players drafted that after the action starts you just say "where the heck did he come from?"  Not that they weren't decent, or even good in college---but in the pros they're like a different player! The All Star drafted late in the first, or even second round!  Who is to say that Rozier won't be the next DWade, or RJHunter the next Steph Curry or KKorver, or Mickey the next Rodman?  We could be sitting on the next big surprise in the NBA, and not even know it!  But, it happens every year!  This year could be our good fortune!
I hated the draft this year---well really 16 and 45---but lets see---and hope!  Right now I'm stoked for SL to see IF one of our guys makes people around the league go "holy smoke, how did we not see that comin'."  Fingers crossed.  People don't bet on "snake eyes" or "box cars" very often, for good reason, but you roll the dice four times, well.............