Author Topic: Who else was wrong on Dion Waiters?  (Read 5479 times)

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Who else was wrong on Dion Waiters?
« on: December 29, 2013, 02:09:25 AM »

Offline barefacedmonk

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I was.

I thought he was going to step up this season. Disappointed he hasn't lived upto his rookie production and hype.

Wake up Cleveland.
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Re: Who else was wrong on Dion Waiters?
« Reply #1 on: December 29, 2013, 06:09:53 AM »

Offline chambers

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I was.

I thought he was going to step up this season. Disappointed he hasn't lived upto his rookie production and hype.

Wake up Cleveland.


I'd say you're underrating him. His numbers are slightly better than Jeff Green's and he's a rookie. He's only started 9 games too.

He's playing for a terrible coach and staff that give Kyrie Irving way too much power because they're afraid he'll leave Cleveland. It's not the best situation for him.
He's steadily improving I think, and he's got a certain level of swagger/ego strength like most stars have.

It's very hard for a ball dominant guy like Waiters to play with a ball dominant point guard like Kyrie.

I've watched their games and Waiters misses so many opportunities because Kyrie isn't looking around or focusing on getting his own mid range jumpshot off instead of making the easy pass.
Cavs fans seem to like him, and I made a proposal over on real gm in the Cavs forum recently about us sending out Green to the Cavs for Waiters and they didn't want a bar of it.
Remember last year he wasn't even starting in college- he was the 6th man as a freshman- so he's still a kid.
His shooting is what will make or break his career- it needs work, but again he's a freshman.
His numbers are basically the same, with more points, more assists and 1 more turnover per 36 than Jeff Green- and that's been with Bynum and Irving on his team.
Now Bynum has gone his slashing/cutting game like Avery Bradley will benefit.
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Re: Who else was wrong on Dion Waiters?
« Reply #2 on: December 29, 2013, 07:26:42 AM »

Offline green147

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I was.

I thought he was going to step up this season. Disappointed he hasn't lived upto his rookie production and hype.

Wake up Cleveland.


I'd say you're underrating him. His numbers are slightly better than Jeff Green's and he's a rookie. He's only started 9 games too.

He's playing for a terrible coach and staff that give Kyrie Irving way too much power because they're afraid he'll leave Cleveland. It's not the best situation for him.
He's steadily improving I think, and he's got a certain level of swagger/ego strength like most stars have.

It's very hard for a ball dominant guy like Waiters to play with a ball dominant point guard like Kyrie.

I've watched their games and Waiters misses so many opportunities because Kyrie isn't looking around or focusing on getting his own mid range jumpshot off instead of making the easy pass.
Cavs fans seem to like him, and I made a proposal over on real gm in the Cavs forum recently about us sending out Green to the Cavs for Waiters and they didn't want a bar of it.
Remember last year he wasn't even starting in college- he was the 6th man as a freshman- so he's still a kid.
His shooting is what will make or break his career- it needs work, but again he's a freshman.
His numbers are basically the same, with more points, more assists and 1 more turnover per 36 than Jeff Green- and that's been with Bynum and Irving on his team.
Now Bynum has gone his slashing/cutting game like Avery Bradley will benefit.

Actually Green has higher ppg, fg %, 3 point %, rbs, blocks and fewer turnovers. Also Waiters is not a rookie. I agree he's talented, but when a young player thinks he's better than he is (claiming to be the best shooting guard in the NBA), it is a bad situation. Not to mention the fact that there's numerous reports of him arguing and fighting with his teammates...I wouldn't want any part of it. I think the Cavs wish they would've taken Oladipo with that #1 pick and sent Waiters somewhere else.

Re: Who else was wrong on Dion Waiters?
« Reply #3 on: December 29, 2013, 07:53:33 AM »

Offline McHales Pits

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Everyone knows that Syracuse guys stink in the pros (said with heavy UConn Husky bias)
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Re: Who else was wrong on Dion Waiters?
« Reply #4 on: December 29, 2013, 09:00:55 AM »

Offline winsomme

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Waiters has been a disappointment but no so much from a talent standpoint but from an attitude standpoint.

He really hasn't played enough to say where his skill level is or will go but that is mostly due to attitude IMO. He is starting to seem like another JR Smith type - always some kind of issue or complaint.

The fact is that that CLE team is Irving's and Waiters needs to learn how to play off of him not be complaining that he doesn't get the ball where/when he needs it. There are plenty of players in the league who excel with a ball dominant player like Irving. Waiters strikes me as a "grass is always greener" guy and they are always unhappy no matter where they go...Waiters needs to look at Stephenson who was like that but just decided to stop complaining and play, and now he has solidified his spot on that Pacers team.

The player that is really disappointing on CLE is Thompson. He has the Jeff Green problem - inconsistent and nearly invisible at times. Players like him - definitely skilled but not consistently aggressive - make me wonder if they are actually interested in being good. Those are the most frustrating players of all because you are afraid to give up on them only to see them turn it on later but are then left waiting and waiting....

I hope Danny takes a page out of the Red Sox book and focuses on players who LOVE playing ball. I think it makes all the difference in the world.

Re: Who else was wrong on Dion Waiters?
« Reply #5 on: December 29, 2013, 09:57:36 AM »

Offline Celtics4ever

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Quote
Everyone knows that Syracuse guys stink in the pros

Aside from Carmelo, I am inclined to agree, that zone defense kills their man to man skills.

Waiters isn't that good of a shooter.   That makes it hard to play SG.   He slashed well yesterday but was 6-16 from the field and that is with AB on Irving a lot.

Re: Who else was wrong on Dion Waiters?
« Reply #6 on: December 29, 2013, 10:02:04 AM »

Online Moranis

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So a guy that improves his shooting and improves his overall numbers is worse than he was the year before.  That seems odd to me.
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Re: Who else was wrong on Dion Waiters?
« Reply #7 on: December 29, 2013, 10:13:02 AM »

Offline hpantazo

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I was never a fan of his to begin with. He is about what I thought he was, a selfish, undersized, mediocre shooting guard. Cleveland blew it big time with that pick, missing out on Barnes or Drummond. Then they blew it even more with this year's pick, Anthony Bennett. Is Michael Jordan advising them on drafting?

Re: Who else was wrong on Dion Waiters?
« Reply #8 on: December 29, 2013, 10:28:10 AM »

Offline Vox_Populi

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His production hasn't gone up because his usage hasn't. In fact, his minutes haven't increased much either. His role on offensive is primarily the same, but now the team's execution is worse. Even less set plays, more isolation and he's coming off the bench now too.

He's averaging more points with improved efficiency despite having about as many touches as before. Not sure what else someone could expect. Cleveland are a bad team with a bad coach. Even Irving has been struggling.
« Last Edit: December 29, 2013, 10:34:59 AM by Vox_Populi »

Re: Who else was wrong on Dion Waiters?
« Reply #9 on: December 29, 2013, 12:13:50 PM »

Offline pearljammer10

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I was.

I thought he was going to step up this season. Disappointed he hasn't lived upto his rookie production and hype.

Wake up Cleveland.


I'd say you're underrating him. His numbers are slightly better than Jeff Green's and he's a rookie. He's only started 9 games too.

He's playing for a terrible coach and staff that give Kyrie Irving way too much power because they're afraid he'll leave Cleveland. It's not the best situation for him.
He's steadily improving I think, and he's got a certain level of swagger/ego strength like most stars have.

It's very hard for a ball dominant guy like Waiters to play with a ball dominant point guard like Kyrie.

I've watched their games and Waiters misses so many opportunities because Kyrie isn't looking around or focusing on getting his own mid range jumpshot off instead of making the easy pass.
Cavs fans seem to like him, and I made a proposal over on real gm in the Cavs forum recently about us sending out Green to the Cavs for Waiters and they didn't want a bar of it.
Remember last year he wasn't even starting in college- he was the 6th man as a freshman- so he's still a kid.
His shooting is what will make or break his career- it needs work, but again he's a freshman.
His numbers are basically the same, with more points, more assists and 1 more turnover per 36 than Jeff Green- and that's been with Bynum and Irving on his team.
Now Bynum has gone his slashing/cutting game like Avery Bradley will benefit.

Jeff Green: 16.2ppg,1.5assists, 4.5rebounds, 45%fg's, 40%3fg's, .5 steals, .5 blocks 1.9to's 14.91per

Dion Waiters: 15.2ppg,2.5assists, 3.3rebounds, 43%fg's, 39%3fg's, 1 steals, .3 blocks 2.6to's 13.97per

Waiters has 1 more assist and a 1/2 more steal per game. So to say his numbers are ""slightly better" is completely false...Plus he isnt a rookie.

Re: Who else was wrong on Dion Waiters?
« Reply #10 on: December 29, 2013, 12:16:24 PM »

Online Moranis

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I was.

I thought he was going to step up this season. Disappointed he hasn't lived upto his rookie production and hype.

Wake up Cleveland.


I'd say you're underrating him. His numbers are slightly better than Jeff Green's and he's a rookie. He's only started 9 games too.

He's playing for a terrible coach and staff that give Kyrie Irving way too much power because they're afraid he'll leave Cleveland. It's not the best situation for him.
He's steadily improving I think, and he's got a certain level of swagger/ego strength like most stars have.

It's very hard for a ball dominant guy like Waiters to play with a ball dominant point guard like Kyrie.

I've watched their games and Waiters misses so many opportunities because Kyrie isn't looking around or focusing on getting his own mid range jumpshot off instead of making the easy pass.
Cavs fans seem to like him, and I made a proposal over on real gm in the Cavs forum recently about us sending out Green to the Cavs for Waiters and they didn't want a bar of it.
Remember last year he wasn't even starting in college- he was the 6th man as a freshman- so he's still a kid.
His shooting is what will make or break his career- it needs work, but again he's a freshman.
His numbers are basically the same, with more points, more assists and 1 more turnover per 36 than Jeff Green- and that's been with Bynum and Irving on his team.
Now Bynum has gone his slashing/cutting game like Avery Bradley will benefit.

Jeff Green: 16.2ppg,1.5assists, 4.5rebounds, 45%fg's, 40%3fg's, .5 steals, .5 blocks 1.9to's 14.91per

Dion Waiters: 15.2ppg,2.5assists, 3.3rebounds, 43%fg's, 39%3fg's, 1 steals, .3 blocks 2.6to's 13.97per

Waiters has 1 more assist and a 1/2 more steal per game. So to say his numbers are ""slightly better" is completely false...Plus he isnt a rookie.
He isn't a rookie but he is 22, in his second year, and is better than he was last year and is basically performing at the rate of Jeff Green, a guy that many on this board think is a build around type player.
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Re: Who else was wrong on Dion Waiters?
« Reply #11 on: December 29, 2013, 09:51:17 PM »

Offline chambers

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I was.

I thought he was going to step up this season. Disappointed he hasn't lived upto his rookie production and hype.



Wake up Cleveland.


I'd say you're underrating him. His numbers are slightly better than Jeff Green's and he's a rookie. He's only started 9 games too.

He's playing for a terrible coach and staff that give Kyrie Irving way too much power because they're afraid he'll leave Cleveland. It's not the best situation for him.
He's steadily improving I think, and he's got a certain level of swagger/ego strength like most stars have.

It's very hard for a ball dominant guy like Waiters to play with a ball dominant point guard like Kyrie.

I've watched their games and Waiters misses so many opportunities because Kyrie isn't looking around or focusing on getting his own mid range jumpshot off instead of making the easy pass.
Cavs fans seem to like him, and I made a proposal over on real gm in the Cavs forum recently about us sending out Green to the Cavs for Waiters and they didn't want a bar of it.
Remember last year he wasn't even starting in college- he was the 6th man as a freshman- so he's still a kid.
His shooting is what will make or break his career- it needs work, but again he's a freshman.
His numbers are basically the same, with more points, more assists and 1 more turnover per 36 than Jeff Green- and that's been with Bynum and Irving on his team.
Now Bynum has gone his slashing/cutting game like Avery Bradley will benefit.


Actually Green has higher ppg, fg %, 3 point %, rbs, blocks and fewer turnovers. Also Waiters is not a rookie. I agree he's talented, but when a young player thinks he's better than he is (claiming to be the best shooting guard in the NBA), it is a bad situation. Not to mention the fact that there's numerous reports of him arguing and fighting with his teammates...I wouldn't want any part of it. I think the Cavs wish they would've taken Oladipo with that #1 pick and sent Waiters somewhere else.



Per 36 minutes 2013-14 NBA season

Jeff Green
17.4 points, 2.1 turnovers, 1.6 assists,0.5 steals,0.5 blocks, 5.0 rebounds.
FG 46.8%
3PT FG 39.6%
FG attempts 12.5
FG makes 5.3
Free throw 78.1%

With no Rondo and Sullinger, Crawford and Bradley as his biggest competition for usage and time.

Dion Waiters
18.7 points,4 rebounds, 3.0 assists, 0.3 blocks, 3.2 turnovers, 1.2 steals.
FG 45.2%
3PT FG 38.9 %
FG attempts 13 FG makes 5.7
Free throw 68.1%

Competing with Kyrie Irving and Andrew Bynum, whilst starting 9 games.

You can't compare stats when Green plays 4 and a half more minutes per game and starts -Green's also playing in his 7th season and his stats have barely changed in that time. The only noticeable difference is free throw percentage where Waiters has dropped from 74% to 68%.

So if you're going to be try and convince me that their numbers aren't almost identical you're going to have to do a better job than showing Jeff Green starting 30 games at 33.5 minutes a game.

One is a sophomore playing for a terribly coached team with two (now one) selfish stars in Bynum and Irving.
Anyway, I'd expect Waiters numbers to up steadily if his free throws improve and now that Bynum is not planting himself inside the key.

Waiters is the type of player that would thrive in Stevens system of execution. Mike Brown's plays are a circus.
But yeah, my point stands that he is basically posting the same numbers as Jeff Green is after 7 years, except it's his 2nd season.

Point being that it's under rating him to say he's a disappointment.
"We are lucky we have a very patient GM that isn't willing to settle for being good and coming close. He wants to win a championship and we have the potential to get there still with our roster and assets."

quoting 'Greg B' on RealGM after 2017 trade deadline.
Read that last line again. One more time.

Re: Who else was wrong on Dion Waiters?
« Reply #12 on: December 30, 2013, 01:26:32 PM »

Offline Fafnir

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I'm amazed that people think Green/Waiters performance this is season is "similar". Waiters is currently playing at an offensive level more in line with Bradley.

http://bkref.com/tiny/jD8XO

The raw numbers are similar, but when you're mostly just scoring you need to be more efficient. Green also brings more defensively to boot.

Re: Who else was wrong on Dion Waiters?
« Reply #13 on: December 30, 2013, 03:21:22 PM »

Offline KGs Knee

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Wake up Cleveland.


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Very well played

Re: Who else was wrong on Dion Waiters?
« Reply #14 on: December 30, 2013, 03:45:07 PM »

Offline Evantime34

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I got league pass for Christmas (ok I got money for Christmas which I used to get league pass) and I just watched the Golden State Cleveland game. Waiters is going to be a player, he can create off the dribble and get to the hole extremely well. Sure he takes some ill advised shots and sure he has his other faults but players that can consistently get to the bucket are in short supply, I believe Waiters to be one of those players.
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