Is There An Impact Big We Can Draft In This Draft?

[Chris]

Based on who is possibly going to be available at 16, the most likely would be Mason Plumlee.  He is tall, very athletic, and skilled for a big man, and he was very productive at the highest level of competition last year.  He is a bit of a late bloomer though, which has been counted against him. 

I think he has a legit chance to be a sleeper as an excellent pick and roll big man in the NBA though.

Chris its your opinion and i wouldn't be upset if we got Plumlee, but you have to think about what he has done for his team in college on top of self production. He has tried to carry Duke these last two years without alot of success, especially in tournament level.

The last game vs Louisville, he had i don't know how many turnovers and balls stripped from his hand. Defensive lapses also, letting in a few wide open layups.

More often than not, there is a reason why players who made impact for their teams that helped their team succeed in college regular season plus tourneys end up becoming better nba players. 

For this reason Withey is a better choice imo. And Withey won't be another case of Tyler Hansbrough, bc he has legit nba center size/wingspan.

While I like Whithey, I just don't think he is, or will ever be strong enough to hold position in the post in the NBA.  And considering he would be drafted primarily as a defensive minded center, that is a HUGE problem.

Same can be said for Dieng.

[NocturnalRebel]

I don't know about an impact big but one I think that may be worth picking up at 16 is Dieng. I like his shot blocking and rebounding. He has a nice little jumper too but I wouldn't want him to fall in love with it and not do work in tha paint. I hope Danny selects him if he's still around when tha C's are on tha clock. He could be a decent back up for KG (although I would like to see him come off tha bench - assuming he comes back).

I think a Sully/Dieng front court would be great tho. Tha C's will have a rim protector and shot blocker next to arguably their best rebounder. And between tha two of them, tha rebounding on this team would improve. If Dieng is selected by tha C's tho I think he should add more muscle and/or weight so he can hold his own down low against tha likes of Hibbert and Howard.

[LooseCannon]

There's probably at least a couple of bigs available at 16 who can step in immediately and make an impact as a regular rotation player, but it's not going to be obvious based on physical tools and previous performance.  It might end up being a relatively un-athletic big who is an average rebounder, at best, and a below-average shot-blocker but is good at the other stuff.

I'd be looking for a big who has the ability to make the rotations necessary for Doc's defensive scheme and the intelligence to do so, while being able to set effective pick without being called too often for a moving screen.  I'd prefer a guy with the upside of being a poor man's Marc Gasol rather than the potential to be the next Deandre Jordan.

[Celtics4ever]

I don't know about an impact big but one I think that may be worth picking up at 16 is Dieng. I like his shot blocking and rebounding. He has a nice little jumper too but I wouldn't want him to fall in love with it and not do work in tha paint. I hope Danny selects him if he's still around when tha C's are on tha clock. He could be a decent back up for KG (although I would like to see him come off tha bench - assuming he comes back).

I think a Sully/Dieng front court would be great tho. Tha C's will have a rim protector and shot blocker next to arguably their best rebounder. And between tha two of them, tha rebounding on this team would improve. If Dieng is selected by tha C's tho I think he should add more muscle and/or weight so he can hold his own down low against tha likes of Hibbert and Howard.

I like Deing if we keep KG as well and trade back in the second to get Silva or Ledo perhaps.  Deing doesn't need the ball. I do not like him as well with a rebuild but who knows what the cards hold.

[ianboyextreme]

Celtics non big for 2013-2014 roster

Jeff Green, Jason Terry, Courtney Lee, AB, Rondo, Crawford, T Will, Paul Pierce (if he is brought back)

Celtis big (pf/C) for 2013-2014

Sullinger, KG, Bass, Melo, Shav (if brought back)

Celtics up front is really Sullinger, Bass and an aging KG. Lots of question mark about Melo
______________________________________________________

So with this said, celtics are hurting up front badly. There are a ton of sf, pg (other needs) we could get through FA and from this years draft at least snath a non drafted pg (pressey, siva, jackson). But getting an impact big through FA will be next to difficult.

This said, even though i'm still big of Glen Rice Jr. , in order for the celts to build properly , you need another proper big that will come in and play more frequently for 2013-2014 as kg will need more rest.  Its a good idea to start "now" to get such a big, bc they do they take longer to develop. The list from 2013 draft that could be avail when we draft


1. Gorgui Dieng - nbadraft.net has finally put up a profile on him and have his athleticism and quickness both at level 7.  I analyzed this for a sec. Bc from games and films i watched, he definitely looks more athletic and quicker than most centers. But the more i think about it, the more nbadraft.net might have some better accuracy on these qualities.  He has good footwoork, lateral quickness. He can jump pretty high. But the thing is, he requires momentum and is not quick/athletic from standstill.  Maybe thats why he falls for fakes alot bc he needs "momentum to jump higher".  The other issue with Dieng, is that he is not "hungry" on the court. He scored 5 points some game, 9 points another and rarely put a string of games scoring more than 15 points at any point of the year. He doesn't demand the ball down on the post enough, and hangs around the top of the key on the offensive end.  On the defensive end, he can be pushed around. Since sophmore/junior year he hasn't added on much more strength and i'm not sure how much stronger he can get.  I like Dieng, but not at 16.  Danny has not even interviewed him yet nor has scheduled a workout(he is healthy now) as the draft is nearing.

Rudy Gobert - The interest i think is there. His height, motor , competitiveness, defensive potential are intriguing. At worse he comes off the bench for now and gets you rebounds, tip ins and clogs the middle to alter shots.  But what else can he do , is the question. Once kg leaves, can he start with Sully? The uncertainty is not what the celtics need right now

Lucas Noguira and Steven Adams - both have top 5 level footspeed and athleticism for a center. But one is lacking strength (Nogueira) and the other is raw (Adams) and both are considered projects. Danny already has one in Melo , and even though these guys might have more potential, its just too much risk to have two projects and perhaps nothing to show for in the end.

Jeff Withey - Has been interviewed by Danny, i think brought in for two workouts already. One with a group of guys and another one on one more recently. The thing about Withey is, no standout quickness, vertical jump, agility numbers, but has legit center size/wingspan. Whats more impressive is his abilty to block shots (Anthony Davis level) and helping Kansas to two top regular season standings and carrying them far in two Ncaa tourneys. This year especially it was not Mclemore, but mostly Withey igniting the team.  He has set records blocking shots. His defensive end "impact" is big, just what the celtics could use now.  As for offense, my wife made a good point that he can't have his way and get his shot off bc he is still 10-20 pounds of strength away. If he had this strength, he can at least get closer to the basket, and finish his shot on contact. So we just need some time for him to get stronger/fill in, but it will be inevitable. Even without post presence, he is a top pnr finishers and hard to stop once he is moving towards the basket. Some ppl are worried about lateral quickness during pnr defebse etc. but like Sully he can learn and get better.  There are just too many other good things Withey has to boggle down to areas that can be improved. If Danny drafts him at 16 or trades down to get him say at 19, i'll be very pleased.

Mason Plumlee - An athlete more than a true basketball player. Some say a poor man version of Blake Griffin. Lots of dunking, good rebounder, runs the floor well, plays hard. The issue is, the in between stuff. Unlike Withey, doesn't have high defensive iq , mostly relying of this athletic abilities and there are questions as to how effective his offensive game will be in the nba, outside of dunking.  There isn't one thing he is great at and was not able to carry Duke anywhere during his 4 years in college. I don' think he can be a starter in the nba , but prob a very good off the bench guy (like Bass). I'd rather draft Withey.

Withey + Sully mean two players without oustanding athletic qualities, but do have oustanding size/strength, each bring one or two unique high end skills to the nba (rebounding, shot blocking), high iq, leadership, great teammates, work ethic, motor, and have carried their teams on their backs to wins and wins far in tournaments.   

Just something to think about

So because of an arbitrary rating on nbadraft.net your opinion of him is altered?

That same site listed Rondo as a "91" seven years ago (which is not very good in the grand scheme of that site). Real life isnt nba 2k13 and each of those ratings are just based off of one guy's opinion.

As for his hunger on the court, I disagree with your sentiment. He doesnt always score a lot of points but he is constantly active on defense and positioning for rebounds. His motor is not something anyone should worry about.

[mmmmm]

My preference would be to pick up either Dieng or Withey, mainly because I think either of those guys already have the defensive IQ & skills that they would actually be able to get floor minutes in the NBA.

Other guys may have more athleticism, size or upside, but most of the other bigs in this range are all very, very raw - especially on defense.

And I agree with the premise that we don't want to have to carry two projects on the roster.

We aren't in need of a C who can light up the scoreboard.  We have other options on the team for points.   What killed us last year was lack of length on defense whenever KG sat down.

Thinking beyond the immediate need, I also want someone who looks 'complementary' to the way Sully plays.  Sully already is a very strong low-post player on both offense and defense and is likely to get better and better.  So you want a long, rangy high-paint defender to complement him.    Both Dieng & Withey fit that profile.   Dieng is better at hedging the P&R.  Withey is better at shot contention.   Both do a good job of disrupting passing lanes.

I'm not particularly worried about the 'too skinny' label some have pasted on these guys.   They are both still 2-3 years away from max muscle mass.   And bulk is less important in the high-paint role.  If Fab pans out, he and Sully could provide plenty of bulk down low.

Offensively Dieng looks a little preferable to me over Withey because he looks like he has excellent form on his jump shot so could grow into a 'stretch big' role.   That said, Withey didn't take enough jumpers to really say it looks good or bad.   Neither has shown a lot in the way of a post up game, but both are very efficient finishers going to the basket.

Picking at #16, I think we can get a solid player.  This is a flat draft outside of the top 5 or so (some would say its flat outside the top 2!).   But I wouldn't have superstar expectations.

Depending on how the draft unfolds, I would not be surprised to see Danny trade down a  bit to try to still get his man and add another pick, either in the 2nd or in next year's draft.

[Tr1boy]

Celtics non big for 2013-2014 roster

Jeff Green, Jason Terry, Courtney Lee, AB, Rondo, Crawford, T Will, Paul Pierce (if he is brought back)

Celtis big (pf/C) for 2013-2014

Sullinger, KG, Bass, Melo, Shav (if brought back)

Celtics up front is really Sullinger, Bass and an aging KG. Lots of question mark about Melo
______________________________________________________

So with this said, celtics are hurting up front badly. There are a ton of sf, pg (other needs) we could get through FA and from this years draft at least snath a non drafted pg (pressey, siva, jackson). But getting an impact big through FA will be next to difficult.

This said, even though i'm still big of Glen Rice Jr. , in order for the celts to build properly , you need another proper big that will come in and play more frequently for 2013-2014 as kg will need more rest.  Its a good idea to start "now" to get such a big, bc they do they take longer to develop. The list from 2013 draft that could be avail when we draft


1. Gorgui Dieng - nbadraft.net has finally put up a profile on him and have his athleticism and quickness both at level 7.  I analyzed this for a sec. Bc from games and films i watched, he definitely looks more athletic and quicker than most centers. But the more i think about it, the more nbadraft.net might have some better accuracy on these qualities.  He has good footwoork, lateral quickness. He can jump pretty high. But the thing is, he requires momentum and is not quick/athletic from standstill.  Maybe thats why he falls for fakes alot bc he needs "momentum to jump higher".  The other issue with Dieng, is that he is not "hungry" on the court. He scored 5 points some game, 9 points another and rarely put a string of games scoring more than 15 points at any point of the year. He doesn't demand the ball down on the post enough, and hangs around the top of the key on the offensive end.  On the defensive end, he can be pushed around. Since sophmore/junior year he hasn't added on much more strength and i'm not sure how much stronger he can get.  I like Dieng, but not at 16.  Danny has not even interviewed him yet nor has scheduled a workout(he is healthy now) as the draft is nearing.

Rudy Gobert - The interest i think is there. His height, motor , competitiveness, defensive potential are intriguing. At worse he comes off the bench for now and gets you rebounds, tip ins and clogs the middle to alter shots.  But what else can he do , is the question. Once kg leaves, can he start with Sully? The uncertainty is not what the celtics need right now

Lucas Noguira and Steven Adams - both have top 5 level footspeed and athleticism for a center. But one is lacking strength (Nogueira) and the other is raw (Adams) and both are considered projects. Danny already has one in Melo , and even though these guys might have more potential, its just too much risk to have two projects and perhaps nothing to show for in the end.

Jeff Withey - Has been interviewed by Danny, i think brought in for two workouts already. One with a group of guys and another one on one more recently. The thing about Withey is, no standout quickness, vertical jump, agility numbers, but has legit center size/wingspan. Whats more impressive is his abilty to block shots (Anthony Davis level) and helping Kansas to two top regular season standings and carrying them far in two Ncaa tourneys. This year especially it was not Mclemore, but mostly Withey igniting the team.  He has set records blocking shots. His defensive end "impact" is big, just what the celtics could use now.  As for offense, my wife made a good point that he can't have his way and get his shot off bc he is still 10-20 pounds of strength away. If he had this strength, he can at least get closer to the basket, and finish his shot on contact. So we just need some time for him to get stronger/fill in, but it will be inevitable. Even without post presence, he is a top pnr finishers and hard to stop once he is moving towards the basket. Some ppl are worried about lateral quickness during pnr defebse etc. but like Sully he can learn and get better.  There are just too many other good things Withey has to boggle down to areas that can be improved. If Danny drafts him at 16 or trades down to get him say at 19, i'll be very pleased.

Mason Plumlee - An athlete more than a true basketball player. Some say a poor man version of Blake Griffin. Lots of dunking, good rebounder, runs the floor well, plays hard. The issue is, the in between stuff. Unlike Withey, doesn't have high defensive iq , mostly relying of this athletic abilities and there are questions as to how effective his offensive game will be in the nba, outside of dunking.  There isn't one thing he is great at and was not able to carry Duke anywhere during his 4 years in college. I don' think he can be a starter in the nba , but prob a very good off the bench guy (like Bass). I'd rather draft Withey.

Withey + Sully mean two players without oustanding athletic qualities, but do have oustanding size/strength, each bring one or two unique high end skills to the nba (rebounding, shot blocking), high iq, leadership, great teammates, work ethic, motor, and have carried their teams on their backs to wins and wins far in tournaments.   

Just something to think about

So because of an arbitrary rating on nbadraft.net your opinion of him is altered?

That same site listed Rondo as a "91" seven years ago (which is not very good in the grand scheme of that site). Real life isnt nba 2k13 and each of those ratings are just based off of one guy's opinion.

As for his hunger on the court, I disagree with your sentiment. He doesnt always score a lot of points but he is constantly active on defense and positioning for rebounds. His motor is not something anyone should worry about.

no its not bc of some rating. But considering everything. From his stats, game after game stats, videos, etc

The hungry part you may disagree bc he plays hard, good motor, but that doesn't mean he wants to take over. He is alot of the times passive agressive, helping behind the scenes, instead of being a guy that can steal an important game for you.  In the nba , these kind of "help" players end up being only guys coming off the bench.

Look at guys like Jeff Green, Hibbert, who were once in college go to guys. What happened in their first 3 years in the nba?? passive and inconsistent. Then how will a guy passive from college fare in the nba??

Withey again has carried Kansas on his back enough times the last two years , especially in the tourneys. Setting block shot records, causing opposing teams to have to play around him. He is a leader, big game player.