if greg popavich was our coach...

[BballTim]

this argument kind of proves my point
his system doesn't work for anything but a group of players like the ones he had in 2007-08. At what point do you change your system for the players you have, mr great coach?
my argument is that pop would. yes pop has the same fundamentals and values, but he understands how certain players play better than doc imo. doc seems to be putting a player in a box that fits in his scheme...if that makes sense.

  So you're saying you've been watching Rondo run the offense for the last few years and you thought that we were running the same offense we ran in 2008?

[KGs Knee]

I just wonder if sometimes people forget, the Celtics have actually had more playoff success than the Spurs have had over the last 5 years?

It's not as if the Spurs have been some super, over-achieving team lately.  If anything, they've failed for the same reasons we have, injuries.

[CelticConcourse]

I just wonder if sometimes people forget, the Celtics have actually had more playoff success than the Spurs have had over the last 5 years?

It's not as if the Spurs have been some super, over-achieving team lately.  If anything, they've failed for the same reasons we have, injuries.

And downright awful letdowns against poor teams

[bobbyv]

I just wonder if sometimes people forget, the Celtics have actually had more playoff success than the Spurs have had over the last 5 years?

It's not as if the Spurs have been some super, over-achieving team lately.  If anything, they've failed for the same reasons we have, injuries.

Good point

[CelticConcourse]

I just wonder if sometimes people forget, the Celtics have actually had more playoff success than the Spurs have had over the last 5 years?

It's not as if the Spurs have been some super, over-achieving team lately.  If anything, they've failed for the same reasons we have, injuries.

Good point

But then again.., ECF losses mean nothing in Boston

All about 18

[nickagneta]

I just wonder if sometimes people forget, the Celtics have actually had more playoff success than the Spurs have had over the last 5 years?

It's not as if the Spurs have been some super, over-achieving team lately.  If anything, they've failed for the same reasons we have, injuries.

Actually I think they have failed for another reason as well. Since their last title, here are their seasonal defensive ratings as a team:

2012-13   101.6
2011-12   103.2
2010-11   105.6
2009-10   104.5
2008-09   104.3
2007-08   101.8

Here are the Celtics defensive ratings over that same time:

2012-13   103.3
2011-12   98.2
2010-11   100.3
2009-10   103.8
2008-09   102.3
2007-08   98.9

Except for this past year the San Antonio defense was significantly worse than Boston's most of the past 6 seasons. Their defense just hasn't been good enough to win a title. Yes SA has gone to two WCFs in that time, losing both, but it was many their offense that was keeping them good.

When SA was winning titles, their defense was consistently in the 90's as a team defensive rating. As soon as it ballooned in 2008, they stopped winning titles.

[MBunge]

...very little would be different.

Wrong.  It might not be more successful, but there would be clear differences.  For example...

Would Pop tolerate Rondo assist-padding by passing up layups and easy shots to throw the ball back out for a jump shot?

  One would hope he's able to figure out that Rondo kicks the ball out because of the bigs on the other team close to the rim. If not we should be discussing whether he's a better coach than Mike Brown, not Doc Rivers.

Not to be snarky, but have you ever actually watched Rondo play?  He's not penetrating and getting within 5 feet of the rim and then passing off when the defense collapses on him.  He's frequently penetrating, had a wide open layup staring him in the face, only to pass out for a jump shot.

Mike

[BballTim]

...very little would be different.

Wrong.  It might not be more successful, but there would be clear differences.  For example...

Would Pop tolerate Rondo assist-padding by passing up layups and easy shots to throw the ball back out for a jump shot?

  One would hope he's able to figure out that Rondo kicks the ball out because of the bigs on the other team close to the rim. If not we should be discussing whether he's a better coach than Mike Brown, not Doc Rivers.

Not to be snarky, but have you ever actually watched Rondo play?  He's not penetrating and getting within 5 feet of the rim and then passing off when the defense collapses on him.  He's frequently penetrating, had a wide open layup staring him in the face, only to pass out for a jump shot.

Mike

  I watch him play all the time. He drives towards the hoop and the other team has a big nearby. Rondo passes instead of shooting, the big doesn't try and block the shot he doesn't take and people claim that he passed up a "wide open layup". I guess if the defenders went for the phantom block anyways, kind of like players that lose the ball when they get fouled throw their hands up to look like they were shooting more people would be able to see what was happening.

[CFAN38]

Not sure what would be different if we had Pop instead of Doc.I will say that having watched some of the spurs last game there is a striking resemblance between the top 7 of their rosters (when Cs are healthy)

KG    < Duncan
PP    > Ginobli
RR    = Parker
Green = Leonard
Sully < Splitter
Terry < Neil
Avery = Green

[BballTim]

Not sure what would be different if we had Pop instead of Doc.I will say that having watched some of the spurs last game there is a striking resemblance between the top 7 of their rosters (when Cs are healthy)

KG    < Duncan
PP    > Ginobli
RR    = Parker
Green = Leonard
Sully < Splitter
Terry < Neil
Avery = Green

  One major difference is that all 7 of SA's players were on the roster in 11-12 and 6 of the 7 were on the team the year before.

[nickagneta]

...very little would be different.

Wrong.  It might not be more successful, but there would be clear differences.  For example...

Would Pop tolerate Rondo assist-padding by passing up layups and easy shots to throw the ball back out for a jump shot?

  One would hope he's able to figure out that Rondo kicks the ball out because of the bigs on the other team close to the rim. If not we should be discussing whether he's a better coach than Mike Brown, not Doc Rivers.

Not to be snarky, but have you ever actually watched Rondo play?  He's not penetrating and getting within 5 feet of the rim and then passing off when the defense collapses on him.  He's frequently penetrating, had a wide open layup staring him in the face, only to pass out for a jump shot.

Mike

I am not sure your idea of frequently and my idea of frequently is the same. He did it maybe once or so every 3-5 games? Maybe?

Though I don't want anyone doing that ever, but I don't think he's doing it frequently, just more than you would like.

Rondo is frequently dropping 11 or more assists.
Rondo is frequently not very conservative with his passes leading to bad turnovers.
Rondo is frequently cheating off his man and playing the passing lanes on defense(possibly by design).
Rondo is frequently the best and smartest player on the court.

I don't think anyone can say he frequently is passing up layups for outside shots. he does it. He does it more than I want. I don't think its frequent.