Will Celtics Team Break Down If Bass Is Traded? Or We Are Ok W/ Sully And White?

[krook]

Bass is a bench player who Doc uses as a starter. The team would be better off if he is traded.

How many teams play 5 legit starters?

The 4-5 teams that are legit contenders.

I doubt Mario Chalmers, Shane Battier, Kendrick Perkins, Danny Green, Tiago Splitter, Iman Shumpert, Reggie Evans or Lance Stephenson can be considered any more "legit starters" than Brandon Bass.

chalmers and perkins yes, they are

[hpantazo]

Bass is a bench player who Doc uses as a starter. The team would be better off if he is traded.

How many teams play 5 legit starters?

The 4-5 teams that are legit contenders.

I doubt Mario Chalmers, Shane Battier, Kendrick Perkins, Danny Green, Tiago Splitter, Iman Shumpert, Reggie Evans or Lance Stephenson can be considered any more "legit starters" than Brandon Bass.

chalmers and perkins yes, they are

So are Splitter, Green, and Shumpert. Evans and Stephenson, no, but I don't consider their teams legit contenders either.

[Yogi]

Bass is a bench player who Doc uses as a starter. The team would be better off if he is traded.

How many teams play 5 legit starters?

The 4-5 teams that are legit contenders.

I doubt Mario Chalmers, Shane Battier, Kendrick Perkins, Danny Green, Tiago Splitter, Iman Shumpert, Reggie Evans or Lance Stephenson can be considered any more "legit starters" than Brandon Bass.

chalmers and perkins yes, they are

Bass 8.3, 5.2, 1.0
Chalmers 8.5, 2.2, 3.4
Perk 4.3, 6.1, 1.4
Splitter 10.4, 6.3, 1.5
Shumpert 6.2, 2.7, 1.5
Green 10.7, 3.1, 1.8
Evans 4.3, 10.7, 0.5
Stephenson 8.6, 3.9, 2.8

Of all those guys, Splitter is the only player you can argue is hands down better than Bass.  Bass shoots 47% fg and 86% ft which makes him more efficient on offense than most of the others as well.  Not to mention that statistically Bass is a superior defender to most of these guys.  I will grant that Splitter may be put in a higher level than the rest of these guys, but no one else can claim to be any more "legit" a starter than Brandon Bass.  The opposite in fact.

[nostar]

Bass 8.3, 5.2, 1.0
Chalmers 8.5, 2.2, 3.4
Perk 4.3, 6.1, 1.4
Splitter 10.4, 6.3, 1.5
Shumpert 6.2, 2.7, 1.5
Green 10.7, 3.1, 1.8
Evans 4.3, 10.7, 0.5
Stephenson 8.6, 3.9, 2.8

Of all those guys, Splitter is the only player you can argue is hands down better than Bass.  Bass shoots 47% fg and 86% ft which makes him more efficient on offense than most of the others as well.  Not to mention that statistically Bass is a superior defender to most of these guys.  I will grant that Splitter may be put in a higher level than the rest of these guys, but no one else can claim to be any more "legit" a starter than Brandon Bass.  The opposite in fact.

You know normally I'm a stats guy. I love to use metrics and think they are very effective in supporting an argument.

In this case I think comparing a role player on one team to role players on several other teams, all playing various positions mind you, all at different stages of their careers and most importantly in drastically different systems, is silly.

For instance, Iman Shumpert or Mario Chalmers could probably average 20/5/5 if they were the first option on their teams. They are #4 at best with everyone healthy.

Unfortunately I think Bass is in the ideal situation for his skill set. I say unfortunately because that means there is little potential to develop under differing circumstances. Tiago Splitter is in his prime, tall and talented. He is, without any mincing of words, a better player than Bass. Bass might have a better out side shot but Splitter puts up more points per 36 with a significantly higher TS%. No contest.

If Bass is a bench player, who would be your generic starting PF?

Are we talking at similar salaries? I'll give you 6 from $6M and under :

Dejuan Blair, JJ Hickson, or Andray Blatche. All are free agents next season. Any one of those guys is more athletic than Bass, rebounds better and boxes out better. Blair does it without any knees which is impressive to me.

As to the OP I think if we trade Bass in the off season not only would we be fine, we'd probably benefit from it. He's a sub-par rebounder, defender and scorer. While he's not glaring bad at anything he's only exceptionally good at a 12-15ft jump shot. Guess how many guys on our team take that shot...

Too many.

Let's get a PF/C who loves the post so KG can do his big man float thing. Millsap comes to mind. Or maybe Tiago Splitter =)

[BballTim]

Bass 8.3, 5.2, 1.0
Chalmers 8.5, 2.2, 3.4
Perk 4.3, 6.1, 1.4
Splitter 10.4, 6.3, 1.5
Shumpert 6.2, 2.7, 1.5
Green 10.7, 3.1, 1.8
Evans 4.3, 10.7, 0.5
Stephenson 8.6, 3.9, 2.8

Of all those guys, Splitter is the only player you can argue is hands down better than Bass.  Bass shoots 47% fg and 86% ft which makes him more efficient on offense than most of the others as well.  Not to mention that statistically Bass is a superior defender to most of these guys.  I will grant that Splitter may be put in a higher level than the rest of these guys, but no one else can claim to be any more "legit" a starter than Brandon Bass.  The opposite in fact.

You know normally I'm a stats guy. I love to use metrics and think they are very effective in supporting an argument.

In this case I think comparing a role player on one team to role players on several other teams, all playing various positions mind you, all at different stages of their careers and most importantly in drastically different systems, is silly.

For instance, Iman Shumpert or Mario Chalmers could probably average 20/5/5 if they were the first option on their teams. They are #4 at best with everyone healthy.

  That's extremely optimistic. If Chalmers was capable of putting up roughly the numbers Parker or Wade put up this year he'd be making 2-3 times what he does.

[clover]

Sure, maybe KG will change his mind over the summer and come back next year, but I suspect Danny needs to practically start from scratch next year in rebuilding his front court, and to be competitive, he probably needs a legitimate All-Star at either the C or PF position.

He may have to take some interim steps to get there, and it may take another year, but IMO that's what he's got to be aiming for.

[BballTim]

Sure, maybe KG will change his mind over the summer and come back next year, but I suspect Danny needs to practically start from scratch next year in rebuilding his front court, and to be competitive, he probably needs a legitimate All-Star at either the C or PF position.

He may have to take some interim steps to get there, and it may take another year, but IMO that's what he's got to be aiming for.

  Did KG actually say he wasn't going to come back next year?

[Yogi]

Bass 8.3, 5.2, 1.0
Chalmers 8.5, 2.2, 3.4
Perk 4.3, 6.1, 1.4
Splitter 10.4, 6.3, 1.5
Shumpert 6.2, 2.7, 1.5
Green 10.7, 3.1, 1.8
Evans 4.3, 10.7, 0.5
Stephenson 8.6, 3.9, 2.8

Of all those guys, Splitter is the only player you can argue is hands down better than Bass.  Bass shoots 47% fg and 86% ft which makes him more efficient on offense than most of the others as well.  Not to mention that statistically Bass is a superior defender to most of these guys.  I will grant that Splitter may be put in a higher level than the rest of these guys, but no one else can claim to be any more "legit" a starter than Brandon Bass.  The opposite in fact.

You know normally I'm a stats guy. I love to use metrics and think they are very effective in supporting an argument.

In this case I think comparing a role player on one team to role players on several other teams, all playing various positions mind you, all at different stages of their careers and most importantly in drastically different systems, is silly.

For instance, Iman Shumpert or Mario Chalmers could probably average 20/5/5 if they were the first option on their teams. They are #4 at best with everyone healthy.

Unfortunately I think Bass is in the ideal situation for his skill set. I say unfortunately because that means there is little potential to develop under differing circumstances. Tiago Splitter is in his prime, tall and talented. He is, without any mincing of words, a better player than Bass. Bass might have a better out side shot but Splitter puts up more points per 36 with a significantly higher TS%. No contest.

If Bass is a bench player, who would be your generic starting PF?

Are we talking at similar salaries? I'll give you 6 from $6M and under :

Dejuan Blair, JJ Hickson, or Andray Blatche. All are free agents next season. Any one of those guys is more athletic than Bass, rebounds better and boxes out better. Blair does it without any knees which is impressive to me.

As to the OP I think if we trade Bass in the off season not only would we be fine, we'd probably benefit from it. He's a sub-par rebounder, defender and scorer. While he's not glaring bad at anything he's only exceptionally good at a 12-15ft jump shot. Guess how many guys on our team take that shot...

Too many.

Let's get a PF/C who loves the post so KG can do his big man float thing. Millsap comes to mind. Or maybe Tiago Splitter =)

It's not a direct comparison of stats.  That is why I listed the three major categories.  It's their total contribution. 

Mario Chalmers and Shumpert average 20 ppg? 

1.  Do you know how many players actually average 20ppg in the NBA?  There are 10 players.  They wouldn't average 15 as a number one option.  Zach Randolph who is the Grizzlies number one option is averaging barely over 15. 

2.  The truth is these guys would actually average LESS points as the number one option.  Most of their shots are wide open spot up jumpers thanks to the double teams drawn by Lebron, Wade, Melo, JR Smith, Bosh, Stoudemire etc.  Imagine if they were double teamed or even pressured a little.  They are abysmal offensive players.  Besides whatever argument you use about them being the third option applies equally to Bass who is tied for 4-5th option in our starting 5 with Bradley. 

I already noted that Splitter was a better player.  What is the contest you are talking about?

DeJuan Blair and Andre Blatche are more athletic than Bass?  Bass is way more athletic than either one of those guys and it's not even close.  They do rebound better, but they are terrible defenders and they are worse offensive players as well.  Blatche is more offensively talented, but he also makes horrible decisions which is why he didn't make it in Washington and losing playing time to the likes of Reggie Evans and Kris Humphries in Brooklyn. 

Bass is an elite one on one defender, and is part of the best defensive units of the last two years in the Celtics.  If you want more evidence look no further than the fact that Doc Rivers has played him heavy minutes over the last two years.  If we know one thing for certain, it's that Doc doesn't play guys who don't defend.  He's also an above average offensive player, and since KG's been out, he's been incredibly efficient.

Of course if we replace Brandon Bass with Millsap we would be better.  We would be better if we replaced Avery Bradley with James Harden.  We would be better if we replaced Paul Pierce with Lebron James.  They are better players.  It has nothing to do with the style of play, just amount of talent.  If we can package Bass along with assets for a better player like Millsap or Josh Smith then we will be better.  Trading Bass in a lateral move for a big man would only make us worse.  It would mess up chemistry and force KG to defend power forwards taking him away from the paint and tiring him out by having him run in the perimeter covering stretch 4's. 

[CFAN38]

We are all hard on Bass, I admit I am often critical of his play.

The problem is that he just isn't an ideal fit with this team.

What he is

An athletic jump shooting 4 with below average height and above average length. His talent is at the level of a first big off the bench on a playoff team, starter on a non playoff. (Rondo pushes him to his max potential ex last season)

What he isn't

A rebounder, a shot blocker, capable of defender larger bigs, or a versatility offensive player.


Next year if they are lucky and the Cs are at full strength Bass is going to lose out on minutes to Green and Sully. Basses spot in the rotation really needs to go to a player who capable of playing center on defense. The pairing of Sully and Bass was a defensive problem and isn't going away. Green will likely see minutes at PF next year, this and sully's lack of size means that the first big off the bench needs to be able to fill KG's role as defensive anchor.   

[Neurotic Guy]

Since when has Bass ever been a cornerstone of our team? Regardless, if Bass is traded it'll probably be alongside other parts and/or picks in order to upgrade at his position. Don't see us trading Bass for a 1, 2, or 3 with the logjam we have at those spots already. So to answer your question, yes, we'll be okay.

Agreed.  Bass is a trademaker if we need $6M to even up salaries.  He's not a bad throw in as he could fill a role on another team.  Likewise he can fill a role here.  But if that role is starter, it means we have a weakness at the 4.  I actually like the guy, he works and when his shot is on he can really help.  I'm looking forward to seeing him come off the bench. Hope he can find a productive role for us.

[krook]

Since when has Bass ever been a cornerstone of our team? Regardless, if Bass is traded it'll probably be alongside other parts and/or picks in order to upgrade at his position. Don't see us trading Bass for a 1, 2, or 3 with the logjam we have at those spots already. So to answer your question, yes, we'll be okay.

Agreed.  Bass is a trademaker if we need $6M to even up salaries.  He's not a bad throw in as he could fill a role on another team.  Likewise he can fill a role here.  But if that role is starter, it means we have a weakness at the 4.  I actually like the guy, he works and when his shot is on he can really help.  I'm looking forward to seeing him come off the bench. Hope he can find a productive role for us.

hope any team needs a floor spacer PF
maybe houston or nuggets needs him

[clover]

Bass as a starter does represent a weakness at the 4, and it is a false dichotomy to suggest that if the C's trade him, they'll rely on only Sully and White at the position.

[SHAQATTACK]

Always liked Bass on the Celtics as a "bench role player"   ,  I still think he just preforms better in this role than a starter.  When teams don't scout him a starter,  he jumps into a game. with energy and hits open looks from a defense ignoring him.  As a starter , he doesn't match up with true 4 greats and they kill him.

Bass is better than most bench 4's and has success against other benches  .  He is better 6th or 7th man role with good minutes.

[krook]

Always liked Bass on the Celtics as a "bench role player"   ,  I still think he just preforms better in this role than a starter.  When teams don't scout him a starter,  he jumps into a game. with energy and hits open looks from a defense ignoring him.  As a starter , he doesn't match up with true 4 greats and they kill him.

Bass is better than most bench 4's and has success against other benches  .  He is better 6th or 7th man role with good minutes.

bass is not even closed to 6th man, he better be role player at the bench...pau gasol z-bo...blake..hickson...say no to bass as starter