Bob Ryan with the 1st pick in an all time draft selects...

[CelticConcourse]

Certainly a little outside the box but I could see where Ryan is coming from.  A healthy Walton was certainly one heckuva basketball player.  Arguably the best passing big man of all time. 

I'd probably go in the same direction and pick a center myself although Russell or Chamberlain would probably be the first choice to come to mind.

You're talking a 7 game series.  Gotta have yourself a top 5 big man.

I think Wilt or Jordan are the only acceptable answers here.

I'm never going to discount Bill Russell. I might not pick him in this scenario but he's in the discussion.  The talk is about 7 game series and Russell was a perfect 10-0 in Game 7's, not to mention one of the alltime greats.  He belongs in the conversation.

Not to mention that these are going to be loaded teams. 


Having Russel who was so successful as the leader and best player of the team with the longest winning stretch of an NBA franchise would be a great start. 


I would likely choose him 1st or 2nd along with Jordon.

I pick Russel and Jordon

[Snakehead]

Certainly a little outside the box but I could see where Ryan is coming from.  A healthy Walton was certainly one heckuva basketball player.  Arguably the best passing big man of all time. 

I'd probably go in the same direction and pick a center myself although Russell or Chamberlain would probably be the first choice to come to mind.

You're talking a 7 game series.  Gotta have yourself a top 5 big man.

I think Wilt or Jordan are the only acceptable answers here.

I'm never going to discount Bill Russell. I might not pick him in this scenario but he's in the discussion.  The talk is about 7 game series and Russell was a perfect 10-0 in Game 7's, not to mention one of the alltime greats.  He belongs in the conversation.

Not to mention that these are going to be loaded teams. 


Having Russel who was so successful as the leader and best player of the team with the longest winning stretch of an NBA franchise would be a great start. 


I would likely choose him 1st or 2nd along with Jordon.

Sure these are loaded teams, but that just means you have plenty of time to take "glue" guys and thus you don't need to go "less" (and I use that word hesitantly since Bill is an all time great) talented but a better team player in the first couple of rounds.  You use your later picks to fill in the gaps and make the players work as a team.  Jordan and Chamberlain are widely regarded as the two best players in NBA history.  They have also had plenty of monster games in the post season and played for two of the greatest teams in NBA history.  In this type of situation, I really believe they are the only two acceptable answers.

Right, better player.


So give me the two guys that dominated their era's titles.


Jordon and Russel.

Teams win titles not players.  Chamberlain was the greatest player of his generation.  He is also the only player in NBA history that has led the league in points, rebounds, and assists.  No one else has even come close to doing that.

11 titles in 13 years. 

Clearly best player on that team.



Sorry, I consider Russel the 2nd best player in NBA history (and sometimes wonder if he was actually better then Jordon)



Wilt was the most gifted player, but not the best player.  (much like AI was possible the most gifted small guy, but was not the best small guy)

TP for this.

Russell beat out Wilt.  I can't believe what I'm reading here on a Celtics forum.  That isn't to take away from Wilt, he's one of the best ever, but I think we saw the two go head to head and I think we saw who won.

[Moranis]

Certainly a little outside the box but I could see where Ryan is coming from.  A healthy Walton was certainly one heckuva basketball player.  Arguably the best passing big man of all time. 

I'd probably go in the same direction and pick a center myself although Russell or Chamberlain would probably be the first choice to come to mind.

You're talking a 7 game series.  Gotta have yourself a top 5 big man.

I think Wilt or Jordan are the only acceptable answers here.

I'm never going to discount Bill Russell. I might not pick him in this scenario but he's in the discussion.  The talk is about 7 game series and Russell was a perfect 10-0 in Game 7's, not to mention one of the alltime greats.  He belongs in the conversation.

Not to mention that these are going to be loaded teams. 


Having Russel who was so successful as the leader and best player of the team with the longest winning stretch of an NBA franchise would be a great start. 


I would likely choose him 1st or 2nd along with Jordon.

Sure these are loaded teams, but that just means you have plenty of time to take "glue" guys and thus you don't need to go "less" (and I use that word hesitantly since Bill is an all time great) talented but a better team player in the first couple of rounds.  You use your later picks to fill in the gaps and make the players work as a team.  Jordan and Chamberlain are widely regarded as the two best players in NBA history.  They have also had plenty of monster games in the post season and played for two of the greatest teams in NBA history.  In this type of situation, I really believe they are the only two acceptable answers.

Right, better player.


So give me the two guys that dominated their era's titles.


Jordon and Russel.

Teams win titles not players.  Chamberlain was the greatest player of his generation.  He is also the only player in NBA history that has led the league in points, rebounds, and assists.  No one else has even come close to doing that.

11 titles in 13 years. 

Clearly best player on that team.



Sorry, I consider Russel the 2nd best player in NBA history (and sometimes wonder if he was actually better then Jordon)



Wilt was the most gifted player, but not the best player.  (much like AI was possible the most gifted small guy, but was not the best small guy)

TP for this.

Russell beat out Wilt.  I can't believe what I'm reading here on a Celtics forum.  That isn't to take away from Wilt, he's one of the best ever, but I think we saw the two go head to head and I think we saw who won.

Wilt.  He dominated virtually every statistically category in virtually every single game those two played head to head.

The Celtics won the game not because Bill was better than Wilt but because Tommy, Cousy, Hondo, etc. were far superior than Wilt's generally crappy teammates.  When Wilt was in his prime and paired with just two other HOFers in their "prime", Greer and Cunningham (and Cunningham was in his second year), he was on what is perhaps the greatest team in NBA history winning 68 regular season games and cruising through the playoffs on their way to an easy title (that Sixers team demolished the Celtics in 5 games in the ECF that year).  They probably would have repeated had Cunningham not gotten hurt during the playoffs in the 67-68 season. 

[Moranis]

To follow up on my last post, which of these two teams from the 63-64 season do you think is better?

Boston Celtics without Bill
John Havlicek - HOF
Sam Jones - HOF
Tommy Heinsohn - HOF
KC Jones - HOF
Frank Ramsey - HOF
Clyde Lovellette - HOF
Tom Sanders - HOF as contributor
Willie Naulls
Jim Loscutoff
Larry Siegried (rookie)
Johnny McCarthy

or

San Francisco Warriors without Wilt
Nate Thurmond (rookie) - HOF
Al Attles
Tom Meschery
Wayne Hightower
Guy Rodgers
Gary Phillips
Gary Hill (rookie)
George Lee
Kenny Sears
John Windsor (rookie)


You can pretty much do this with any of Bill's Celtics' teams and any of Wilt's teams and get the same result until that Sixers team in 66-67 and then it was still just Wilt, Greer, Cunningham, and Chet Walker who was just elected to the HOF last year.  That was also the year Bill shaved his HOF teammates down to just Hondo, S. Jones, and Bailey Howell of course Boston also had Don Nelson (HOF coach), Tom Sanders (HOF contributor), and Wayne Embry (HOF contributor). 

So when Bill and Wilt were both in their primes and both had the same amount of HOF teammates, Wilt's team destroyed Bill's.  That has always been my point.  Bill was blessed to have been on a team loaded with HOFers, while Wilt wasn't for much of his career.  Had Wilt been drafted to Boston and Bill been drafted to Philly, I have no doubt that Wilt would be the one with all of the titles and would be without question the greatest player that will EVER play the game.  The only reason it is in doubt is the titles, which Wilt couldn't do a darn thing about because his teammates just weren't very good.

[GreenFaith1819]

In any event, THANK YOU, Man Mountain, for 1986!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BodXUyWZNo0

[GreenFaith1819]

The best passing team EVER:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eFrRnWEt3Z4

THAT is Celtics Basketball.

[nickagneta]

The best passing team EVER:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eFrRnWEt3Z4

THAT is Celtics Basketball.

The best passing team of all time never had a player on it for that ever averaged more than 10 assists per game.

Food for thought

[td450]

To follow up on my last post, which of these two teams from the 63-64 season do you think is better?

Boston Celtics without Bill
John Havlicek - HOF
Sam Jones - HOF
Tommy Heinsohn - HOF
KC Jones - HOF
Frank Ramsey - HOF
Clyde Lovellette - HOF
Tom Sanders - HOF as contributor
Willie Naulls
Jim Loscutoff
Larry Siegried (rookie)
Johnny McCarthy

or

San Francisco Warriors without Wilt
Nate Thurmond (rookie) - HOF
Al Attles
Tom Meschery
Wayne Hightower
Guy Rodgers
Gary Phillips
Gary Hill (rookie)
George Lee
Kenny Sears
John Windsor (rookie)


You can pretty much do this with any of Bill's Celtics' teams and any of Wilt's teams and get the same result until that Sixers team in 66-67 and then it was still just Wilt, Greer, Cunningham, and Chet Walker who was just elected to the HOF last year.  That was also the year Bill shaved his HOF teammates down to just Hondo, S. Jones, and Bailey Howell of course Boston also had Don Nelson (HOF coach), Tom Sanders (HOF contributor), and Wayne Embry (HOF contributor). 

So when Bill and Wilt were both in their primes and both had the same amount of HOF teammates, Wilt's team destroyed Bill's.  That has always been my point.  Bill was blessed to have been on a team loaded with HOFers, while Wilt wasn't for much of his career.  Had Wilt been drafted to Boston and Bill been drafted to Philly, I have no doubt that Wilt would be the one with all of the titles and would be without question the greatest player that will EVER play the game.  The only reason it is in doubt is the titles, which Wilt couldn't do a darn thing about because his teammates just weren't very good.

That's a pretty selective view of the facts. Wilt beat Russell once. Most of the Finals were against the Lakers, who had Jerry West, Elgin Baylor (two of the best ever), Gail Goodrich (HOF)  and always had several other quality guys. The Lakers team (with Wilt) that Russell beat the last time was considered a heavy favorite.

Guys like KC and Ramsey were fine players, but they weren't going anywhere near the HOF without all those rings. Russell made them, not the other way around.

[ram]

Wilt once said that Russell was better than himself.

How great was Russell? He won even when he was old and had no team to back him up. He won with Em Bryant playing 34 MPG at PG in the playoffs in 1969.

Em Bryant, other than the 1969 playoffs, average 20 MPG, 6.6 PPG and 3 APG, shooting just 41% from the field in his career. 

That same year, Russell, at age 34, had to play 46+ MPG because he had no backup worth a hoot. He averaged 20.5 RPG and 5.4 APG along with 11 pts while also coaching the team.

Sam Jones was on his last legs and had to keep him minutes to under 30 (shot < 42%). Havlicek play virtually every minute. Satch was hobbled and played very little.

But Russell, knowing it was his last year, refused to be beaten.  The Lakers, with Wilt, West and Baylor, could beat them despite a 2-0 lead and a 3-2 lead in the series.


 

[GreenFaith1819]

The best passing team EVER:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eFrRnWEt3Z4

THAT is Celtics Basketball.

The best passing team of all time never had a player on it for that ever averaged more than 10 assists per game.

Food for thought

If I read you correctly...your statement is VERY telling for our CURRENT Celtics...

[RebusRankin]

This is such great advertisement for the 2013 CB Historical Draft.....coming your way in May 2013

Which era?

[tenn_smoothie]

Bill Walton in the '77 playoffs and '78 regular season was a top 5 all-time player - he was the consummate of the consummate. he was Bill Russell with playmaking skills.

not making a joke here, but I have always wondered how his body would have held up if he had not been a vegetarian. with meat and more protein, his body may have held up much better, though I know he had complex feet issues.

having said all that, I still take Bill Russell #1 and Larry Bird #2. can you imagine those two playing together ?