Jason Terry says Ray went to the enemy

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Why do you never even read what anyone else says?  I said Kidd wasn't a MILLION times better.  You are the one that is throwing out the wild over exaggerations.  I am not a Rondo homer, but I am also not a Ray Allen homer either...

I said Rondo was in the same league defensively with Kidd.  He absolutely is.  I absolutely disagree with you.  So does the NBA, R Rondo: 4 time all NBA defensive team.  2009, 2010, 2011, 2012...

I would disagree.  Rondo is def in the same league as a defender as JKidd.  Kidd isn't a million times better.  Both have multiple all nba def team appearances.  Kidd didn't get burned as much, but he also didn't / doesn't have the quick hands and anticipation that Rondo has.

The RA apologist behavior is getting old honestly.  RA is gone.  I feel that our new guards will work better with our current lineup.  Hopefully there won't even be any 'stagnation' issues to argue over anymore...



[quote author=rayallen1934

How do you say hes better than Kidd on defense? KIDD WAS A MILLION TIMES better than Rondo will ever be on defense. Rondo does not lock anyone down, and many times his man destroys him on offense. Rondo's defensive presence is his steals. Allen Iverson also stole the ball a lot and was known as a defensive guy, but we all know Iverson was a horrific defender.


As for his pass first mentality

Yet everyone hates the wait for Ray Offense

And they blame Ray Allen for it when its the offense.

Hilarious that you and others love that Rondo looks to distribute to 1-4 before himself, but in reality it stagnates the offense and takes it down to 5 seconds almost every time in the shot clock.

Also doesnt help that Rondo has one of the worst jump shooting mentality in the league.

Kidd is ways better than Rondo was, Rondo cant guard very good offensive players. He just cant. Kidd had a 6'4 frame, strong , very good defender. Rondo IMO is a very lazy defender, who doesnt go around screens and really doesnt defend hard. Cant blame him with all the energy he needs to use.

Your disagreement with Kidd not being a better defender would be met by laughter from fans who aren't homers.
[/quote]

[BballTim]

The Rondo praise I liked more than anything. I don't think Rondo is the best PG in the league, but if Terry is saying this stuff, Rondo has to be excited. He just left a cold war with his starting 2 guard, knowing his replacement has his back like this even before camp has to be invigorating for Rondo.

This, especially the praise from Kidd (who I find to be maybe the best pure point guard the NBA has seen in the past 12 years) makes me wonder if I'm perhaps underappreciating Rondo.  I feel like I appreciate him fairly as a defender (gambles too much for my liking, but the steals certainly pay off), but maybe I don't appreciate him enough as a facilitator.

There are unique PGs like Chris Paul who can score, do score, yet they also set up their teammates to score regularly.  But maybe they think score first, pass to other 4 players second when the scoring isn't there, where Rondo thinks look at options 1-4 first, then if not he'll take it and score.  That's how I always felt Kidd and Nash played, but they didn't have Rondo's defense to go along with it (and Nash is a much better scorer).  I don't know if this is the case or not, but interesting to think about.

How do you say hes better than Kidd on defense? KIDD WAS A MILLION TIMES better than Rondo will ever be on defense. Rondo does not lock anyone down, and many times his man destroys him on offense. Rondo's defensive presence is his steals. Allen Iverson also stole the ball a lot and was known as a defensive guy, but we all know Iverson was a horrific defender.

  What you're saying is absolute nonsense. Aside from the fact that you're probably comparing Kidd at his peak to Rondo just entering his prime, Rondo's defensive stats are among the best among starting point guards on a yearly basis. He's 26 and has 2 all defense first team and 2 all defense 2nd teams in his 6 years in the league, there are very few point guards in the history of the league that can make similar claims.

[Boston Garden Leprechaun]

Pssst, hey JET.....it is a LEPRECHAUN....not a celtic man.....but hey who cares right?

Let's just win 18!

LET'S GO CELTICS!

[Bombastic Jones]

The Rondo praise I liked more than anything. I don't think Rondo is the best PG in the league, but if Terry is saying this stuff, Rondo has to be excited. He just left a cold war with his starting 2 guard, knowing his replacement has his back like this even before camp has to be invigorating for Rondo.

This, especially the praise from Kidd (who I find to be maybe the best pure point guard the NBA has seen in the past 12 years) makes me wonder if I'm perhaps underappreciating Rondo.  I feel like I appreciate him fairly as a defender (gambles too much for my liking, but the steals certainly pay off), but maybe I don't appreciate him enough as a facilitator.

There are unique PGs like Chris Paul who can score, do score, yet they also set up their teammates to score regularly.  But maybe they think score first, pass to other 4 players second when the scoring isn't there, where Rondo thinks look at options 1-4 first, then if not he'll take it and score.  That's how I always felt Kidd and Nash played, but they didn't have Rondo's defense to go along with it (and Nash is a much better scorer).  I don't know if this is the case or not, but interesting to think about.

How do you say hes better than Kidd on defense? KIDD WAS A MILLION TIMES better than Rondo will ever be on defense. Rondo does not lock anyone down, and many times his man destroys him on offense. Rondo's defensive presence is his steals. Allen Iverson also stole the ball a lot and was known as a defensive guy, but we all know Iverson was a horrific defender.

  What you're saying is absolute nonsense. Aside from the fact that you're probably comparing Kidd at his peak to Rondo just entering his prime, Rondo's defensive stats are among the best among starting point guards on a yearly basis. He's 26 and has 2 all defense first team and 2 all defense 2nd teams in his 6 years in the league, there are very few point guards in the history of the league that can make similar claims.

Totally agree with you.  It is nonsense to say Rondo isnt on the same level as Kidd defensively.  Rondo picked up his first 'all-defense' award in 2009, his second year in the league, and has been named to a first team or second team ever year since then.  That is not homerism.  Kidd had a nine year run starting in his 5th season.

Back to the original post:  Last years crew was so great, but I think 2012-13 will top them.  I love JET's mentality and how fired up everyone is.  I simply cannot wait for Oct 30.

[mmmmm]

I would disagree.  Rondo is def in the same league as a defender as JKidd.  Kidd isn't a million times better.  Both have multiple all nba def team appearances.  Kidd didn't get burned as much, but he also didn't / doesn't have the quick hands and anticipation that Rondo has.

The RA apologist behavior is getting old honestly.  RA is gone.  I feel that our new guards will work better with our current lineup.  Hopefully there won't even be any 'stagnation' issues to argue over anymore...



[quote author=rayallen1934

How do you say hes better than Kidd on defense? KIDD WAS A MILLION TIMES better than Rondo will ever be on defense. Rondo does not lock anyone down, and many times his man destroys him on offense. Rondo's defensive presence is his steals. Allen Iverson also stole the ball a lot and was known as a defensive guy, but we all know Iverson was a horrific defender.


As for his pass first mentality

Yet everyone hates the wait for Ray Offense

And they blame Ray Allen for it when its the offense.

Hilarious that you and others love that Rondo looks to distribute to 1-4 before himself, but in reality it stagnates the offense and takes it down to 5 seconds almost every time in the shot clock.

Also doesnt help that Rondo has one of the worst jump shooting mentality in the league.

Kidd is ways better than Rondo was, Rondo cant guard very good offensive players. He just cant. Kidd had a 6'4 frame, strong , very good defender. Rondo IMO is a very lazy defender, who doesnt go around screens and really doesnt defend hard. Cant blame him with all the energy he needs to use.

Your disagreement with Kidd not being a better defender would be met by laughter from fans who aren't homers.
[/quote]

Got any stats to back up those assertions?

Kidd was a fantastic defender a few years ago.  He's not posted the same great defensive numbers as of late.

Last year, opposing PGs posted a PER rating of 15.3 against Kidd.   They posted a PER of just 10.7 against Rondo.

Kidd himself seems to think Rondo is pretty good.