Questions about Paul Pierce: Could he coach? and more...

[AB_Celtic]

We've had a pretty hectic offseason (in a good way, for the most part) and as a result of that there hasn't been much talk about our quiet, professional captain in Paul Pierce.

I for one have a lot of questions about Pierce's future.

1. How much is he worth?
   Pierce is under contract for the next two seasons; $16,790,345 in 2012-13 and $15,333,334 in 13-14. That's quite a bit for someone who will be 36 by the time that contract finishes up. At the same time, though, Pierce's PP48 hasn't gone down in the last 5 seasons, indicating that he's still efficient, just playing less.
2011-12 --- 27.4
2010-11 --- 26.1
2009-10 --- 25.8
2008-09 --- 26.2
2007-08 --- 26.2
   Is Pierce still worth $15-$17 million? Or would the team's money be better spent (i.e. trading him?) Don't get me wrong, I want him to retire a Celtic, but if he resigns after 2014, it needs to be for the right price.

2. Will he go down as (one of) the best Celtic(s) ever?
   Simple question: where does Pierce's tenure rank in terms of the all-time green greats? Is he top 5? Is he number 1? Am I wrong to assume he's even top 10 and that he will have his number 34 retired?

3. Would he (unlike somebody else) accept a bench role as he ages?
   This one is a toughie for me. We've seen Pierce stick through the bad years before 2007-08, so we know he is a true Celtic and wants what is best for the team. At the same time, we saw him playing a lot of minutes this postseason, essentially becoming a liability to the team's success against the Heat (save for some game 5 magic). One has to wonder if Pierce wanted to be on the court more than he should have been.
   If it gets to the point that Jeff Green starting is the best thing for this team, would Pierce go to the bench kicking and screaming, or would he understand, accept the role, and do his best to help the team?

4. Can he mentor Joseph?
   There has been plenty of talk of Garnett mentoring Sullinger and Melo. Some of it is all talk, I know, as KG didn't really do much with JJJ (nobody's fault). Kris Joseph, though, has mentioned that Pierce is one of his idols and that he tries to emulate his play style.
   Would Pierce be willing to take Joseph under his wing to help develop the next generation of Celtics players? Or would his only focus be banner 18? Would he be better off spending his time on Green?

5. Could he ever coach?
   Imagine seeing Paul Pierce on the sideline in a suit and tie shouting at youngsters in his raspy voice. Doc 2.0? I think it would be pretty cool.

A bunch of random thoughts, I know, but just some stuff that came to me. I'd love to hear what everyone thinks about The 2012 Truth.

Lastly, I'll leave you with a personal preference question: would you trade Paul Pierce if it meant the difference between a conference championship and an NBA championship?

[Interceptor]

I think that Pierce is worth what we are paying him. People focus too much on his performance (injured) during the playoffs, and him being fat and out of shape (again, after being injured) at the start of the season. Middle season Pierce was great. He will be making nowhere near $15-17M if he re-signs in 2014.

I have no idea where PP fits in the overall franchise. His number will be retired and he is a legend, but he is not a Legend.

Pierce would come off the bench and not grouse about it if Doc told him it was best for the team. He might privately disagree. I don't know if this counts as "acceptance".

I have to believe that Pierce would be a good mento, as a veteran who has had to adjust to getting older. PP is so crafty, and he's such a complete player, that anyone who doesn't listen to what he has to say is a fool.

I don't know about a coach Pierce. I could see it. He's got the right attitude. I personally think that what makes Doc such a good coach though, in addition to his connection with players, is the fact that he was a legit PG for so long. I've got no clue how much of a student of the game that Pierce really is.


I would trade Pierce for a championship if it came to it.

[Celts Fan 92]

Pierce was outta shape nd injured on nd off last year but he had flashes where he played at a high level last year especially around March where he won player of da month he was our leadin scorer 13 years in a row for a reason lol.

nd where his legacy fits I may be younger then most posters but ima bring up sumthin a lot of boston people heads dont like to mention. Pierce was on horrible teams for a majority of his 1st 10 years. Bird, Russell, Havelcheck nd all them dudes had hall of famers on their teams throughout their entire career even in their prime. Pierce aint get his help til he got around age 30 so when yall bring up ships i notice yall leave dat out. he's a top 5 celtic to me cuz in his prime he was versatile leadin his team in 4 different categories nd if they woulda got him enough help before 08 in lets say around 05-06 when Pierce was a scoring machine he coulda had at least 3 ships word to dat 02 ECF run. so many broken franchise records only thing i say he coulda done betta was his performance in da 2010 finals. but a lot of his career nd why he aint got more rings u cant hold against him

[Mr October]

1. Pierce is making market value. He is a top 5 small forward in the NBA. He can still score and defend at a high level. And is stamina is good enough as long as he is only playing every other day in the playoffs, or if he is limited to closer to 32 mpg in the regular season.

2. #34 will be retired. He is probably the greatest scorer the Celtics have ever had. He is easily a top 10 Celtic of all time.

3. I'm not sure about the bench role idea. He best serves the team as a starter, and this will have to be evaluated each year.

4. I think he can mentor Joseph to some degree. Mostly the young guys learn just how hard the superstars work on their game and their bodies. It is ultimately up to them to put in the work themselves.

5. I can't imagine Pierce coaching. I guess most superstars don't do it...

[ManUp]

1. I'd say he's about two million per year over paid

2. Yes, he absolutely is a legend unfortunately early career was wasted on bum teams. Top 5 Celtic.

3. I think he retires if he sees or thinks this is coming, but would take it like a good soldier if push came to shove.

4. You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make it drink.

5. Could he coach sure anybody "could" coach, but would he be good at it? I doubt it

[BballTim]

  When you talk about how much PP makes remember that he opted out of a $21.5M deal to sign the new contract, giving the Celts financial breathing room. It's really only a 3/$40M deal beyond what he would have made, and they also saved luxury tax money when he made about $8M less that first year. I'd say the Celts see the contract as quite a bargain overall.

[lightspeed5]

other than larry bird, the best nba coaches were just role players

[Sketch5]

If rumors are true and he's going to Post Camp Olajuwon that means he's retooling his skills, spending the time getting better, how many players his age would do that.

How good can he be in the post? I give it this season to see if last year was just bad offseaon and injury before trades should be brought up.

[2short]

other than larry bird, the best nba coaches were just role players

i understand the generalization of your quote; rick carlisle, brian shaw, phil jackson
BUT
mmmmm doc rivers? i wouldn't consider jerry sloan a role player either
old friend don nelson, billy cunningham, doug collins

I feel you never know who will be a good coach, some great players can't coach (see magic, isiah not that he was great  )
it takes someone like doc to understand how to work with pro players and also someone with court knowledge like scott skiles and fire like george karl etc etc

[Celtics18]

I have no idea where PP fits in the overall franchise. His number will be retired and he is a legend, but he is not a Legend.

The "L" definitely needs to be capitalized.  The Truth is a Legend. 

[Scottie]

1) I think his current salary is a fraction high, but given what he has put up with to remain a Celtic, I think he deserves a bit of a bonus.

2)He's top five as far as I am concerned. The only area he is lacking compared to other historical greats is rings, but 98% of that has nothing to do with him.

His volume of work is quite impressive. Here are some of his all time rankings in Celtic history. Regular season followed by playoffs in brackets;

Points:   2nd (5th)
Rebounds: 7th (8th)
Assists:  5th (7th)
Steals:   2nd (3rd*)  * Rondo is 2nd!!
Blocks:   5th (5th)
Games:    3rd (9th)
Minutes:  3rd (6th)

One ring, ten time all-star. Difficult for me to name five better Celtics (although I can do four easily).

3) I think (hope) so. Doc could be one of the few players who could talk him into it. But the guy starting ahead of him will want to be good .

4 & 5) I don't think so. I see PP as a flat out 'baller. Don't think he's necessarily that good in a teaching/mentoring role.
         

 

[GreenEnvy]

People look at his last string of games and think he is washed up or not the same player. He was clearly hobbled. Once he got into shape (lockout + no training camp + injury = very out of basketball shape PP), he was who he always has been.

Look back to game 2 against Atlanta, he basically single-handedly beat them without Rondo or Ray.

Next year he will be back to his 18ppg, 5rpg, 4apg self.

And putting daggers into the hearts of opposing teams.

[edwardjkasche]

1. How much is he worth?

- He's worth the $15-$17 million over the next two seasons, but if he re-signs in 2014 it would have to be for around $10 million, and that's dependent on the team's cap space.  Hopefully, he knows when it's time to hang it up.

2. Will he go down as (one of) the best Celtic(s) ever?

- Top-10 all-time and #34 definitely deserves to be retired.  He'd be Top-5 on another team, but this is the Celtics and there are 17 banners hanging in the rafters.  He's one of the Top-3 SFs in team history.

3. Would he (unlike somebody else) accept a bench role as he ages?

- Personally, I think he'd retire before going to the bench.  His minutes could be cut down some, but coming off the bench doesn't seem to be Pierce's cup of tea.  Once again, I hope he knows when it's time for him to hang it up.  He's not a spot-up shooter like Ray, who could and should thrive coming off a team's bench.  Pierce is a scorer and needs to take his shots to be effective.  He's best when he has a feel for the rhythm of the game.  That's difficult to get coming off the bench.

4. Can he mentor Joseph?

- He'd be better off mentoring them both, with Green the top priority (if he ever signs his contract).  But, Pierce doesn't have the mentality of KG.  KG is a teacher and a student, Pierce is player.  Pierce has never really shown the desire to tutor younger players.  That isn't to say he'd ignore them or squash them, but it takes a certain mindset, like KG's, to go out of one's way to tutor younger guys.

5. Could he ever coach?

- Not likely.  For the reasons listed under question 4.  KG would be an amazing coach, but I doubt he'd want to keep himself as energized as he does for a second career on the sidelines.  He's probably too passionate.  Pierce doesn't seem to have the teacher's mentality.  Rondo, if he continues to corral his stubbornness, could end up being a phenomenal coach.  But, he may step on too many toes.  Who knows?

Would you trade Paul Pierce if it meant the difference between a conference championship and an NBA championship?

- Yes.  Nothing is guaranteed.  But, if Pierce was traded and that next season the team won a Championship, then you'd have to admit it was worth it.  They'd still retire his number and he'd go down as a Top-10 Celtic, but this game's about championships (to a certain extent - I'd never accept LeBron or Kobe on this team and I'd disown their championships).

[bdm860]

I can't see Pierce as a coach, but I can see him as a very good studio analyst.  I think he'd be a great fit with what the TNT team has going on.

Pierce comes off as a laid back guy who likes to goof around, so I think he would be perfect as the guy in between the straight-man and the clown, joking alot but has some smart things to say.  Just like what Kenny Smith does now, I think Pierce would be perfect in a role like that.

[bdm860]

other than larry bird, the best nba coaches were just role players

i understand the generalization of your quote; rick carlisle, brian shaw, phil jackson
BUT
mmmmm doc rivers? i wouldn't consider jerry sloan a role player either
old friend don nelson, billy cunningham, doug collins

I feel you never know who will be a good coach, some great players can't coach (see magic, isiah not that he was great  )
it takes someone like doc to understand how to work with pro players and also someone with court knowledge like scott skiles and fire like george karl etc etc

Also I want to add to this, that there are so few great players, and even less of them coach, so it's such a small amount of data, you can't really draw conclusions from it.

Of the role players that become coaches, how many of them suck?  ML Carr was a terrible coach, so was Chris Ford.  Although opinion on coaches vary greatly, making it harder to judge a great coach, is Monty Williams, Herb Williams, Kurt Rambis, Sam Mitchell, John Lucas, Eddie Jordan, Vinny Del Negro, Michael Curry, Bill Cartwright, Michael Cooper, Mike Evans, Bill Hanzlik, etc. good coaches?  While some of them haven't proved themselves yet, and some may be considered even average or good, alot of those former role players were not good as coaches.

Plus, for all the fuss people make about guys like Avery Johnson and Mark Jackson, they have yet to really prove themselves as good coaches.

Also Lenny Wilkens, Paul Silas, and our own Tommy Heinsohn are a few more good coaches/good players.  Bill Russell coached for 8 years and has a .540 winning percentage, so it seems he was a good coach. And Isiah Thomas and Kevin McHale, while both terrible as GMs, are actually both decent coaches in my opinion.