Author Topic: Dooling or Lamar Smith  (Read 10558 times)

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Re: Dooling or Lamar Smith
« Reply #30 on: July 21, 2012, 01:13:32 PM »

Offline wdleehi

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Dooling.



Or another vet. PG.  (Delonte West for example)


3 rookies are enough.

Re: Dooling or Lamar Smith
« Reply #31 on: July 21, 2012, 01:19:30 PM »

Offline vl819

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Dooling. We need a "glue" type of guy

Re: Dooling or Lamar Smith
« Reply #32 on: July 21, 2012, 02:05:00 PM »

Offline Tgro

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on a semi side note where did dis random love fest for Dooling come from? lol I remember dat "What would you trade Keyon Dooling for" thread dat was live nd kickin after every regular season game nd most of da playoffs now a majority of those posters who roasted him want him back as a backup? mad confusing yo lol

If I remember correctly, Dooling didn't exactly start the season healthy and didn't get a lot of playing time either. When he did, he launched some ugly shots and people were trading him for bags of chips and things like that on here.

I always liked the guy and he won me over at the end of the year. Hearing how much Rondo liked him and then his overall play at the end of the season and the playoffs made it seem like he just needs minutes and time with us and he'll keep getting better. He always looked like he had a great attitude and was ready to play at a moments notice and didn't seem to complain about his role. I hope we keep him.

I'm hoping the reason he hasn't been mentioned much or contacted is because Danny has been working on bigger projects (and for the most part coming through). Now he can turn his attention to the Stiesma's, Pietrus's, Daniel's and Dooling's on our team.

Obviously we won't keep them all. Just got to see how this shakes out.
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Re: Dooling or Lamar Smith
« Reply #33 on: July 21, 2012, 02:13:49 PM »

Offline LooseCannon

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Dooling has trade value as someone who can be given more than the minimum in a S&T.  So, it makes sense to hold off on bringing him back while the possibility of a trade is out there.  Given that, it makes sense to prefer him over a player who is no more than marginally better because Dooling would have more value as a potential trade chip next summer.  You have take salary cap ramifications into account, not just talent level.

Also, it seems to take new bench guys a while to grasp the system and Dooling is already there.
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Re: Dooling or Lamar Smith
« Reply #34 on: July 21, 2012, 04:23:30 PM »

Offline Jon

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Can we get over the summer (league) romances?  Dionte Christmas's upside is to be the next Gabe, Pruitt, J.R. Bremmer, Milt Palacio, or Allan Ray, all end of the bench players with short NBA careers.  We don't need to keep him around to find out if he can join that esteemed company when we have a proven player in Keyon Dooling. As Roy said, title teams don't carry 4-5 rookies.

I am not saying we keep Christmas--but strongly believe he has earned a camp invite and the oppotunity to show he belongs.  The people you list as his upside all have weaknesses or flaws that Christmas has worked past.  Gabe had no heart--Dionte has a lot of heart...big hustler, plays every minute.  J.R. was short and one dimensional..Xmas 6'5" an all around game--defends strong, good long and mid-range shooter, can create his own shot, pushes the ball as well as getting out and running.  He also goes to the hoop and rebounds well for a guard, plus he threw the pass of the day on more than one day.  Milt no offense at all..and Allan Ray was too small and could not defend.  I think from seeing Christmas and hearing Danny & Doc he has a shot to stick and earn minutes.

First, I hope you're right 

But second, what are you basing these things on?  It's summer league games that have glorified the likes of the players I mentioned as well as other such luminaries as Kedrick Brown, J.R. Giddens, Jerome Moiso, Brandon Hunter, and even the immortal Kris Clack. 

But even if we were to assume you're right and that Christmas does have NBA potential, I would posit this: being a role player is a learned skill in the NBA.

Nearly every player in the NBA was a star in college who got lots of touches and a chance to dominate the ball.  There are some exceptions with this--for instance some big men like Steamer, who was really a role player in college--but I'm sure even Steamer was a star in high school. 

But sometime along the way, the players that transition to become successful role players had to learn to thrive without the ball.  Not only does this means that they had to become effective in nonscoring areas like rebounding, defense, passing, setting screens, etc., but they also had to learn how to be effective weakside scorers after not touching the ball for 20 seconds of the shot clock while the teams scorers tried to work a pick and roll. 

This is no easy task.  Even Ray Allen struggled a bit in 2008, as he got fewer plays called for him and was asked to do more of his scoring on kickouts and weakside looks. 

To me, this is the big difference between Dooling and Christmas.  Could Christmas potentially do more than Dooling if they both got Paul Pierce's plays called for them in a game?  Possibly. 

But that's never going to happen. 

If either player plays next year, he'll be asked to play away from the ball, play tough defense, and help the stars be effective. 

We know Dooling can do that; we don't know if Christmas can make the transition to do this.  So unless Danny really feels that Christmas is someday going to be a player we'll regret losing (meaning a starter or a 6th or 7th man; it's not really a loss to lose a fringe rotation player), then I'd go with Dooling. 

Re: Dooling or Lamar Smith
« Reply #35 on: July 21, 2012, 04:54:09 PM »

Offline feckless

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Can we get over the summer (league) romances?  Dionte Christmas's upside is to be the next Gabe, Pruitt, J.R. Bremmer, Milt Palacio, or Allan Ray, all end of the bench players with short NBA careers.  We don't need to keep him around to find out if he can join that esteemed company when we have a proven player in Keyon Dooling. As Roy said, title teams don't carry 4-5 rookies.

I am not saying we keep Christmas--but strongly believe he has earned a camp invite and the oppotunity to show he belongs.  The people you list as his upside all have weaknesses or flaws that Christmas has worked past.  Gabe had no heart--Dionte has a lot of heart...big hustler, plays every minute.  J.R. was short and one dimensional..Xmas 6'5" an all around game--defends strong, good long and mid-range shooter, can create his own shot, pushes the ball as well as getting out and running.  He also goes to the hoop and rebounds well for a guard, plus he threw the pass of the day on more than one day.  Milt no offense at all..and Allan Ray was too small and could not defend.  I think from seeing Christmas and hearing Danny & Doc he has a shot to stick and earn minutes.

First, I hope you're right 

But second, what are you basing these things on?  It's summer league games that have glorified the likes of the players I mentioned as well as other such luminaries as Kedrick Brown, J.R. Giddens, Jerome Moiso, Brandon Hunter, and even the immortal Kris Clack. 

But even if we were to assume you're right and that Christmas does have NBA potential, I would posit this: being a role player is a learned skill in the NBA.

Nearly every player in the NBA was a star in college who got lots of touches and a chance to dominate the ball.  There are some exceptions with this--for instance some big men like Steamer, who was really a role player in college--but I'm sure even Steamer was a star in high school. 

But sometime along the way, the players that transition to become successful role players had to learn to thrive without the ball.  Not only does this means that they had to become effective in nonscoring areas like rebounding, defense, passing, setting screens, etc., but they also had to learn how to be effective weakside scorers after not touching the ball for 20 seconds of the shot clock while the teams scorers tried to work a pick and roll. 

This is no easy task.  Even Ray Allen struggled a bit in 2008, as he got fewer plays called for him and was asked to do more of his scoring on kickouts and weakside looks. 

To me, this is the big difference between Dooling and Christmas.  Could Christmas potentially do more than Dooling if they both got Paul Pierce's plays called for them in a game?  Possibly. 

But that's never going to happen. 

If either player plays next year, he'll be asked to play away from the ball, play tough defense, and help the stars be effective. 

We know Dooling can do that; we don't know if Christmas can make the transition to do this.  So unless Danny really feels that Christmas is someday going to be a player we'll regret losing (meaning a starter or a 6th or 7th man; it's not really a loss to lose a fringe rotation player), then I'd go with Dooling. 

Jon I can't disagree with most of your your post---just hard to see a guy work and play as hard and smartly as Christmas and not want him to succeed.  Only counter I have is that Dooling is on the downslope and Christmas is still improving.  In the sideline talks with both Danny and Doc --I think they see Christmas as a solid, bench player --maybe eventually 6th or 7th..smart enough to be a spot starter and also situational high energy.  I really think if it comes to Dooling v Christmas it will likely be Keyon...I mainly was pushing Xmas over Moore, and the guys we just traded. Joseph v Christmas is a tough call--Joseph looks good but Dionte has clearly out played him.
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