Author Topic: Ray Allen's message in the Boston Globe  (Read 61108 times)

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Re: Ray Allen's message in the Boston Globe
« Reply #225 on: July 16, 2012, 06:34:20 PM »

Offline mmmmm

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Where's the yawning gap?
See my response to nickagneta, because it's the same deal.
In other words, you have no answer.
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What the heck are you even talking about?  What 'case' has been overstated here?
The strength of those "legitimate" reasons, many of which are undermined every time something else comes down the wire about Allen.
I have made no case about the strength of Ray's reasons.  I can not do so because, like you, I have no idea what they were.

The only things that have 'come down the wire about Allen' have been speculation.

Hypothetical:  Ray's mom says, "Ray, son, I'm feeling my age and can't take the winters here anymore.  I'm going to move to a nice warm upscale retirement community in Florida."   Ray says, "Really?  Well, I'd like to stay close.  I'll see about getting a job down there."
Explain 3y/27M, please. Is this the price of staying away from his mother, perhaps? And how do we weave the Clippers into this one?

What is there to explain?  We know that there was an initial proposal by Ray's team to Danny.  We have no idea if that (3/27) was the actual proposal.  That is speculation.  If it is true, then, sure, in that hypothetical maybe it indeed would have been the price for working far away from his mother versus taking a pay cut but being able to visit frequently and to see her at home games.

Who knows?  All that is pure speculation and we know nothing. For all I know, Flo is staying in Connecticut with Ray's family.  That's not the point. The point is that IF his mother moved south (maybe she also proposed moving to either Florida OR Southern Cal in that _hypothetical_) then that would be a private, personal 'best for my family' kind of reason that many would view as legitimate for changing jobs.

IF that had been the reason - would that have made Ray worth demonizing?

There are other such types of _legitimate_ reasons that are easy to imagine.  We may never actually know the reason(s).  There are lots of mysteries that exist in the world.  Live with it.

NBA Officiating - Corrupt?  Incompetent?  Which is worse?  Does it matter?  It sucks.

Re: Ray Allen's message in the Boston Globe
« Reply #226 on: July 16, 2012, 06:36:19 PM »

Offline nickagneta

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Per Wyc:

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“We’re not upset. I’m not upset, and I’ll speak for the Celtics, we’re not upset. That’s not the word. We’re gonna miss him…We don’t owe him anything but he doesn’t owe us anything.He’s done his part here. He helped us hang that banner and we wouldn’t have won it without him. So we’re just going to try to win that next one without him.”

http://celticshub.com/2012/07/10/wyc-grousbeck-admits-celtics-organization-isnt-upset-with-ray-allen-over-departure/


Per Doc:

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"Listen, he was great for us when he was here and that's all we can say for it. Clearly we would have liked him to stay with us. But I respect Ray and that will never go away."

http://www.boston.com/sports/basketball/celtics/extras/celtics_blog/

Per Danny:

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“We appreciate all that Ray’s done, all that him and (wife) Shannon have done in our community. We tried to get Ray back – he chose to go to Miami.

...

"I’m a fan of Ray and, like I said, I’m grateful for what he’s done. He’ll always be a part of that 2008 championship and the success we’ve had since then, as well. But I have a feeling that it wasn’t one thing, I think it was an accumulation of lots of things, including the lure of Miami.”

...

“I will say that I was hoping that he would make another decision,” Ainge said. “But I was not surprised.”

Re: Ray Allen's message in the Boston Globe
« Reply #227 on: July 16, 2012, 07:56:50 PM »

Offline The_Chief

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Ray is a thankless cretin (a ring, millions of dollars in contracts and sponsorships, etc.), but let's be honest here...Ray was the worlds most expensive piece of meatloaf much of the past few seasons. His numbers were fine WHEN HE WASN"T DISINTEGRATING, but I'll take Avery over the wretch in a heartbeat in 2013. I called for shipping him out many times last year, but his betrayal is FAR beyond any of us calling for that. It's more like us asking for a trade specifically to the Bobcats just to screw him over. Revenge is a dish best served cold, so lets hope we fill out the roster well and look back at this as a gift. Danny can still prove that this was ultimately for the best.
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Re: Ray Allen's message in the Boston Globe
« Reply #228 on: July 17, 2012, 11:29:48 AM »

Offline Interceptor

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In other words, you have no answer.
In other, more accurate words, I can't find the article where he talked about being an army brat, which is also where he talked a little bit about his future.
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I have made no case about the strength of Ray's reasons.  I can not do so because, like you, I have no idea what they were.
You said that there are legitimate reasons, without touching on how likely that they actually were, except to mention that you "don't know" whether they are true or false. The implication is that these potential explanations are significant.

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The only things that have 'come down the wire about Allen' have been speculation.
Or contract terms (either the C's offer or Mami's), or direct quotes from people, or leaked negotiations, none of which are speculation, and all of which can cast him in an unfavorable light.

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What is there to explain?
Don't complain to me about it, you're the one who came up with "Flo in retirement community" in the first place. It's not my responsibility to ensure that your made-up reasoning actually fits all of the known facts, like the fact that Allen was looking at the Clippers. Who are a bit of a drive from Florida.

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We know that there was an initial proposal by Ray's team to Danny.  We have no idea if that (3/27) was the actual proposal.
We know, from Wyc, that his proposal puts us over the apron, and was obviously more favorable to him that the C's original offer. This gives a little bit, but not a whole lot of wiggle room. Unless you're going to argue that Ray's counter-offer was worse than the Celtic's original offer, which was refused because Danny was a drunk, or someone else that falls under the gigantic "we don't know for sure so it could be possible" umbrella.

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IF that had been the reason - would that have made Ray worth demonizing?
At that point, I'd wonder about his sanity, getting beat up for no good reason whatsoever. He's had ample opportunity to explain himself.

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There are other such types of _legitimate_ reasons that are easy to imagine.  We may never actually know the reason(s).  There are lots of mysteries that exist in the world.  Live with it.
I love the people who tell me to "get over it", or "live with it", like I haven't already done so. My feelings about Allen or my conclusions regarding his actions are not dynamic, fluid, or ever-changing. At this point I am scornful of the pretzels that his defenders have put themselves in. This is a discussion board on the internet, after all.

Re: Ray Allen's message in the Boston Globe
« Reply #229 on: July 17, 2012, 11:32:14 AM »

Offline Interceptor

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Its really easy to explain. He wanted a change of scenery. He wanted Miami and how much Miami was going to pay him didn't matter unless Boston would exorbitantly overpay him. Boston wouldn't so he left.
Well, thanks for explaining your position, but you just make Ray Allen seem like a jerk, and I definitely wouldn't disagree with that.

Re: Ray Allen's message in the Boston Globe
« Reply #230 on: July 17, 2012, 11:34:24 AM »

Offline indeedproceed

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The thing that makes me sad is that we've only gotten to "anger". We still have bargaining, depression, and acceptance to hit yet, and we've already been at this nearly a week!

"You've gotta respect a 15-percent 3-point shooter. A guy
like that is always lethal." - Evan 'The God' Turner

Re: Ray Allen's message in the Boston Globe
« Reply #231 on: July 17, 2012, 11:39:52 AM »

Offline Interceptor

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These things take time. Look where this place still is with the Perk trade.

Re: Ray Allen's message in the Boston Globe
« Reply #232 on: July 17, 2012, 11:52:44 AM »

Offline BballTim

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The thing that makes me sad is that we've only gotten to "anger". We still have bargaining, depression, and acceptance to hit yet, and we've already been at this nearly a week!

  The offseason on celticsblog is fairly long and not necessarily for the faint of heart.

Re: Ray Allen's message in the Boston Globe
« Reply #233 on: July 17, 2012, 12:12:09 PM »

Offline Lord of Mikawa

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The thing that makes me sad is that we've only gotten to "anger". We still have bargaining, depression, and acceptance to hit yet, and we've already been at this nearly a week!
It'll set in when Ray hits his first three against us.
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Re: Ray Allen's message in the Boston Globe
« Reply #234 on: July 17, 2012, 01:16:01 PM »

Offline Valentines_at_Popeyes

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The thing that makes me sad is that we've only gotten to "anger". We still have bargaining, depression, and acceptance to hit yet, and we've already been at this nearly a week!
It'll set in when Ray hits his first three against us.

Quoted for truth.  That moment is going to sting.

Re: Ray Allen's message in the Boston Globe
« Reply #235 on: July 17, 2012, 01:23:57 PM »

Offline KGs Knee

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The thing that makes me sad is that we've only gotten to "anger". We still have bargaining, depression, and acceptance to hit yet, and we've already been at this nearly a week!

Ha!  I'll admit, this made me chuckle.

I actually already accpeted it long before it happened, bargained it with the Terry signing, and never felt it was worth being depressed about anyway.

Still angry though.