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My best attempt at a realistic roster next year
« on: June 11, 2012, 10:48:22 PM »

Offline sinbad

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Here is my feeble attempt to shape the Cs roster for next year. Keep in mind its to hard to predict trades so I stayed away from even attempting to come up with one that would make sense to both teams. I also think that DA is waiting for the home run and will be willing to spend only if free agents are willing to match contract length with Pierce's expiring contract of two years. That being said, chances are slim that a young player will want to commit to a two year deal when he can get five years elsewhere. So you're looking at yes, aging vets again. We could go after Deron Williams but he has shown no indication of wanting to come here and quite frankly I'm pretty satisfied with the future of a Rondo/Avery combo. I think DA waits another two years and then he will have Rondo, a bunch of rookie contracts, and probably twice the amount of cap space he has now. Remember in two years the free agent class could include Kobe, Lebron, Wade, Bosh, and Blake Griffin.

Centers- (KG, Stiemsma, Greg Oden) If KG doesn't retire I just can't see him going anywhere else and starting over with a new coach, city and teammates. The only place would be with a contender and a coach who is the right fit. I may be wrong but I think that best describes the Celtics. Houston with McHale could work I guess. McHale had a great relationship with KG in Minny and Hou did try to trade for Gasol and they do have cap space so it could happen but I got to think that Boston is the better option. Only other coach I think KG would play for would be Pop and Tibs. Hoping he signs for 8-10MM/yr for two years. Oden is a risk worth taking. I got to believe that he could be had for 2MM/year considering he won't be ready until early next season. This is a signing that could pay dividends in the playoffs.

PFs-(Bass, Andrew Nicholson, JJJ) It may be a stretch but this is assuming Bass takes the player option or resigns with Cs for at most 5MM/yr. Go watch Nicholson on Youtube and tell me he wouldn't be an absolute steal at 21. Great post moves at 6-10 230, large hands, is a proficient shooter from 20 feet, solid rebounder, high basketball IQ and athletic enough to guard out on the perimeter against stretch 4s. He has KG like skills minus two inches in height. If I were Danny I'd give him a guarantee so he can stop his workouts with other teams but I fear that 21 is too low to get that commitment. Bass gives us the muscle and Nicholson would give us the height.

SFs-(Pierce, Green, Jeff Taylor)- Assumes that we can sign Green to 4MM/yr. Considering his heart condition that's not out of the realm of possibility. Green gives the second unit much needed scoring and somebody to run with Rondo. Like Nicholson, Taylor can contribute as a rookie. He is considered the best defender in the draft and so I see him providing value even in his rookie year. Doesn't handle the ball very well but he could provide Igoudala type defense which may come in handy should we meet up with the Lebron and the Heat again.

SGs-(Bradley, Moore)- Bradley should blossom with more minutes and should be a fixture for years to come. Looking back I wish we re-signed T. Allen. Imagine in late game situations when we need a stop and we have Rondo, Bradley, and TA together on defense with KG anchoring. Moore is worth another look in his second season.

PGs-(Rondo, Jason Kidd)- Assuming we can get Kidd on the cheap at 3-4MM/yr for 2 years max and that D.Will signs with the Mavs. Since he's in his late 30s, it wouldn't be hard to imagine Kidd signing for only 2 years. Another chemistry guy who would help replace Ray's leadership. Kidd would be perfect for the second unit since he could backup both Rondo and Bradley. He's trust worthy in big play/big game situations and Doc wouldn't hesitate to put him in if Rondo or Bradley got injured. As we saw this year, the second unit had no flow or ball handling when Rondo went to the bench. Kidd would solve that problem I think.

There you have it. I know re-signing KG and adding Kidd doesn't do much for the rebuilding process but how can DA not re-sign KG after the performance he just gave and Doc describing him as his team's "life"? Kidd provides the strong leadership and requisite never give up, gritty attitude that has made the Cs who they are. The rebuilding process is under way with Rondo, Bradley, and this years rookies. Add a big name free agent in 2014 and use the young assets as trade bait for another all star and you have another Big 3 led by Rondo.

This team keeps us in contention next year at least to get to the Finals. D Rose will be out next year, and Miami is not a young team. Here are the ages of key Heat players: Wade (31) Haslem (33), Miller (33), Anthony (31), Battier (35), and James Jones (33). As you can see outside of Lebron and Bosh, their core will be older than the Cs even with KG and Kidd on board. What makes it even worse for Miami is all those players in their 30s are signed for another two years and so the Heat have very little flexibility without trading one of their Big 3. I say this year is Miami's best chance at at title and they will only get older/injury prone starting next year. I do see the value in overhauling the team but do you really believe overpaying for Hibert, Gordon, or trading Pierce for Harrison Barnes is the answer to winning banner 18? Or is it more plausible to keep the majority of this core in tact, a core that came so close to the Finals, and wait another two years when we will have a lot more cap space, franchise changing free agents available, and established youth in our back pocket. So yes, with this team, I definitely believe (with some good fortune) we can back to the Finals and here's hoping Danny believes the same.

On another note, I'm from Hawaii and been a Cs fan for over 20 yrs. I don't really know how I came to become a fan but I'm about as die hard as one can get. Its not easy since 80% of people here are Laker fans. I gotta say that send off chant at the end of game 6 was the best show of appreciation I had ever seen. I was with a two Laker fans watching the game and one of them turned to me and said "I wish Lakers had fans like that" my other Laker buddy agreed.

Sorry for the long post.

Re: My best attempt at a realistic roster next year
« Reply #1 on: June 11, 2012, 11:00:54 PM »

Offline BleedGreen1989

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1- I like Kidd as a back up on this team

2- I kno a lot of people might rip me for this but I don't want nicholson, I want size and i feel he is too similar to jjj..hopefully he proves me wrong
*CB Miami Heat*
Kyle Lowry, Dwayne Wade, 13th pick in even numbered rounds, 18th pick in odd numbered rounds.

Re: My best attempt at a realistic roster next year
« Reply #2 on: June 12, 2012, 12:33:46 AM »

Offline Bean_town fan

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Oden is sitting out next year

Re: My best attempt at a realistic roster next year
« Reply #3 on: June 12, 2012, 12:56:36 AM »

Offline sinbad

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I thought so too but I read on Hoopshype that while it was initially thought that he would take the year off, he intends to be ready by Dec or Jan. I may be wrong though.

Re: My best attempt at a realistic roster next year
« Reply #4 on: June 12, 2012, 01:07:29 AM »

Offline Edgar

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Still.... It doesnt matter if we have TONS of cap space if we dont make a run to finals

best year to rebouild is this one
with all talent far from doing it

my dos centavos
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Re: My best attempt at a realistic roster next year
« Reply #5 on: June 12, 2012, 01:10:36 AM »

Offline LarBrd33

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So in short your plan is to let Ray Allen walk.  SIgn Jeff Green, Jason Kidd and Greg Oden.  Cool.  Not terrible.  I wouldn't mind signing Greg Oden if he was willing to sign here for the pennies you are offering him.

Re: My best attempt at a realistic roster next year
« Reply #6 on: June 12, 2012, 02:31:44 AM »

Offline Edgar

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wheres allens money? on greem and kidd I am not sold
Oden is JO
so .... maybe lets think someone 15 million worthy
;D
Once a CrotorNat always a CROTORNAT  2 times CB draft Champion 2009-2012

Nice to be back!

Re: My best attempt at a realistic roster next year
« Reply #7 on: June 12, 2012, 04:09:54 AM »

Offline sinbad

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Pierce, Bradley, Rondo, JJJ, Bass (player exception), Stiemsna (qualifying offer) 2 first rounders mean we have about 23 million to spend on a minimum of 4 more players. KG 10M, Kidd 4M, Green 3M, Oden 2M, Moore 0.8M = roughly 20M. If Ray is willing to come back for 3M then we can do it but it sounds like he is looking for a longer term deal and an opportunity to be a starter.

We could just sign KG and two other scrubs at minimum contracts. This would leave us with around 11M to make a run at Gordon or Hibert but they are restricted and would probably get more money elsewhere. If Bass opts out and we don't resign him, then that would leave us with around 14M for one player. This possibly could give us enough money to sign Hibbert. Gotta say a lineup of Hibbert, KG, PP, Bradley, and Rondo would look good with a bench of Stiemsma, JJJ, rookies Nicholson/Taylor, and 3 minimum contracts. However, this scenario would leave our bench with practically no meaningful experience outside of Stiemsma. One injury could be catastrophic.

I'm no cap expert so my numbers could be totally wrong. As I said this is my feeble attempt of coming up with a roster. I don't think we have the mid level or know how the Bird rights work. This is why DA is getting paid the big bucks and I'm an armchair GM.

Any other suggestions are welcomed.

Re: My best attempt at a realistic roster next year
« Reply #8 on: June 12, 2012, 07:00:55 AM »

Offline mctyson

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Pierce, Bradley, Rondo, JJJ, Bass (player exception), Stiemsna (qualifying offer) 2 first rounders mean we have about 23 million to spend on a minimum of 4 more players. KG 10M, Kidd 4M, Green 3M, Oden 2M, Moore 0.8M = roughly 20M. If Ray is willing to come back for 3M then we can do it but it sounds like he is looking for a longer term deal and an opportunity to be a starter.

I think the KG figure of 10M is possible, though I personally think it's going to be 12-13M if not higher.  Realize that 10M is a 50% pay cut and it is not like his production has dropped off at all.

Jeff Green is a goner if we can only offer him 3M.  I know there's questions about his health, but from what I have read he is physically as good as new.  He didn't blow out an ACL or Achilles.  He is 26.  And he is good.  Someone will offer him at least twice that, and I think that should be us.

Kidd is intriguing as a backup but that makes us that much older.  I'd rather see us integrate Moore or another younger player (maybe this year's draft pick) into the backup role for Rondo.  Rondo played far too many minutes for us this year.  We need someone who can fill in for him long term.  I'd save the money on him to make sure we keep KG and Jeff Green.

I am perfectly fine taking a flyer on Greg Oden.

Re: My best attempt at a realistic roster next year
« Reply #9 on: June 13, 2012, 02:45:41 AM »

Offline Bill Skywalker

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While you are correct that it's a 50 percent pay cut, his old contract was a contract that could never happen now. I dont really think his previous salary should have anything to do with what he gets this season.

Re: My best attempt at a realistic roster next year
« Reply #10 on: June 13, 2012, 03:02:51 AM »

Offline esel1000

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I would take kidd as a backup pg in a heartbeat. If Oden can play take a chance and sign him to the vet min since its extremely risky.

Re: My best attempt at a realistic roster next year
« Reply #11 on: June 13, 2012, 05:25:26 AM »

Offline bopna

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While you are correct that it's a 50 percent pay cut, his old contract was a contract that could never happen now. I dont really think his previous salary should have anything to do with what he gets this season.

TRUE...a 21 million payout for a single season is outright rediculous...even Durant does not deserve that amount.

KG at 10 is really just about right for him, his age, his skillset being a reliable center and remember, he is also not gonna be playing 40 min a game for an entire season, he will probably max out at an ave of 30-32 min a game...factor in the annual "5-10 games " that he will be out due to "injuries" so i really do say 10 million is a reasonable contract for KG.

Re: My best attempt at a realistic roster next year
« Reply #12 on: June 13, 2012, 06:42:06 AM »

Offline mctyson

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While you are correct that it's a 50 percent pay cut, his old contract was a contract that could never happen now. I dont really think his previous salary should have anything to do with what he gets this season.

Of course his previous salary is going to affect what he makes next season.  Like I have said in other threads, if these guys didn't care about money, why would he have signed a contract that paid him $21M at age 35?

He could very easily tell Danny he will come back on a 1-year deal for $20M.  And in all honesty, while I'd prefer that to be $15M or less, I don't think Danny would be crazy to take that offer. 

Re: My best attempt at a realistic roster next year
« Reply #13 on: June 13, 2012, 07:33:34 AM »

Offline colincb

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Plan A - KG comes back.  Then you can re-sign everybody including Ray, Green, Bass and even Wilcox since you have Bird rights on all but Wilcox. Wilcox splits the full $5M MLE with MP:

5 starters (RR, AB, PP, KG, and BB (with a BBD-like contract)
6 bench vets on bench(KD, RA, JG,, MP, CW, GS)
2 sophs
2 rooks  

$10M for KG, $5M for RA, $6.5M for BB, $5M for JG, $5M MLE split between MP and CW, $3M for KD, $1M for GS, and $33.4M for PP, AB, RR, JJ, EM, and the two rooks for a total of $69M.  The rooks are at 120% of rookie scale which is customary.  That leaves another $5 million cushion to be spread around as necessary to keep all the guys returning while keeping the total salary under the $74M CBA "apron" that triggers the reduction of the full $5M MLE to the $3M mini-MLE.  If Allen doesn't return, try to get a S+T done with CHI or LAC, otherwise, you're still over the cap and left with nothing to show for Ray's departure other than some more profit for Wyc.

Plan B1 - (This is BS since you end up in mediocrity and KG isn't returning for mediocrity). Cs renounce their free agents and their holds so they can add another decent size FA contract. KG returns for $10MM, BB opts out, Cs make a qualifying offer to GS for $1M and get him for that, and opt to keep EM.  1st round rookie salary cap holds for the 21st and 22nd pick are at scale for $2.1M.  That leaves $13.6M for 3 FAs to get to a required roster of 12 under the salary cap rules, $5M for the MLE (which can be split) and minimum contracts for 1-2 filler scrubs. Say you can get Ilyasova for $11M, then you'd be wise to make sure KG is paid as much.  So another $1M for KG leaves $1.6M to get 2 vet-mins (like MD SP, SW, or RH)and get your roster up to 12.  You're now left with the full MLE and more min contracts for 3 more players.  Maybe you get MP and Wilcox to split the $5M and keep another vet-min or the second rounder. Ray, Bass, Green, and Dooling were renounced free agents and are gone for the right to sign Ilyasova.  You've saved money for Wyc and have honed your fantasy BB skills, but the resulting roster is late lottery/early exit bound which is NBA's version of a very hot place for franchises measured in championships.  Cs have no bench scoring at all.

Plan B2 - KG returns and Bass doesn't opt out. Worse still since you have about $10M to spend under the salary cap and Ilyasova gets re-signed by Bucks at that number. Maybe make a pitch for Mayo since AB didn't exactly show any offense during the playoffs with the 2nd worst NBA efficiency for players with 20+ mpg. Very similar to Plan B1, we're toast.  

Plan Tank - KG doesn't return.  Blow it up and spend 80% of salary cap as required by the CBA which is a payroll of $46-47 Million.  Tank and build via the draft.  At this point we have one starter who can score in PP. We don't have to amnesty Pierce since we're holding our cap options open until some real talent other than our own hits the free agent market in future years.

Plan Fantasy Basketball (aka "the Joe Dumars' clusterfun") - KG and BB don't return.  Danny thinks RR, AB, JJ, and EM are the future of the franchise and decides to go for another Championship in 2012-13 by spending $24M to replace KG, BB, and RA. Several years later DA cowers in his office waiting for the axe to fall while hoping he's kissed enough butt to avoid his just desserts.  How was Danny to know that with a lot of available cap among NBA teams chasing a weak free agent class everyone had to overpay to get players that weren't good enough. Too bad Danny never learned about inflation, but while Ben Gordon and Charlie V aren't walking through that door next Fall, there's plenty of guys available that will get us to the same place the once-proud Pistons now occupy.  Since even the Cs' beat writers have figured this plan is folly, I'd expect Danny is a couple of steps ahead of them (even if he did trade Perk).