Celtics 2011-12 Starting Lineups With Record

[TA9]

CELTICS 2011-12 STARTING LINEUPS WITH RECORD
Games    Forward    Forward    Center    Guard    Guard    Record
3    Pavlovic    Garnett    O’Neal    Allen    Rondo    0-3
12    Pierce    Garnett    O’Neal    Allen    Rondo    6-6
1    Pierce    Garnett    Stiemsma    Allen    Rondo    1-0
1    Pierce    Garnett    O’Neal    Dooling    Rondo    1-0
2    Pierce    Garnett    Bass    Allen    Rondo    0-2
4    Pierce    Garnett    O’Neal    Allen    Bradley    3-1
2    Pierce    Bass    Garnett    Pietrus    Bradley    2-0
1    Pierce    Garnet    O’Neal    Pavlovic    Bradley    1-0
1    Pierce    Bass    Garnett    Allen    Bradley    0-1
1    Pierce    Wilcox    Garnett    Allen    Rondo    1-0
1    Pierce    Wilcox    O’Neal    Allen    Rondo    0-2
1    Pierce    Wilcox    O’Neal    Allen    Bradley    0-1

Sorry but its a bit messy  
But the table above shows us how many games we have won/lost, with the different type of lineups we have gon with this season.

Avery has actually done quite a good job!

[mqtcelticsfan]

Avery has actually done quite a good job!

TP for the numbers.

However, while I like the work Bradley has done this year, correlation does not imply causation here, in my opinion. Rondo has been significantly better than Bradley this year, but the record just so happened to work out this way due to other factors.

[TA9]

Avery has actually done quite a good job!

TP for the numbers.

However, while I like the work Bradley has done this year, correlation does not imply causation here, in my opinion. Rondo has been significantly better than Bradley this year, but the record just so happened to work out this way due to other factors.

Thanks for the TP 

And you are sure right. Tho Avery have really come a long way since last season. Im just excited to see what he brings against Westbrook tommorrow!

[nicknorman]

Avery has actually done quite a good job!

TP for the numbers.

However, while I like the work Bradley has done this year, correlation does not imply causation here, in my opinion. Rondo has been significantly better than Bradley this year, but the record just so happened to work out this way due to other factors.

Thanks for the TP 

And you are sure right. Tho Avery have really come a long way since last season. Im just excited to see what he brings against Westbrook tommorrow!

I would love to see a couple of Bradley Rondo backcourt lineups.  Now that Bradley seems confident of that midrange jumper they might have a legit shooting touch with amazing defense.

[LooseCannon]

Numbers may be off since I did this by hand, but here are the records for individual starters.  So, obviously, Doc needs to start Bradley, Dooling, Pietrus, Bass, and Stiemsma.

Pietrus      2-0   1.000
Stiemsma   1-0   1.000
Dooling      1-0   1.000
Bradley      6-3   .667
Bass      2-1   .667
Pierce      15-13   .536
Garnett      15-13   .536
O'Neal      11-13   .458
Rondo      9-13   .409
Allen      11-16   .407
Wilcox      1-3   .250
Pavlovic   1-3   .250

[Q_FBE]

I am not really learning anything by examining individual records by starting lineup. I would rather examine how well the Celtics play during certain stretches of the game and look at rebounding rates per 100 possessions and turnovers rates per 100 possessions and compare that to the league average.  Also I think the Celtics are having the misfortune of running into teams that are playing well at the time. Detriot is among the ECFs best teams over the last ten games going 7 and 3 for instance. Cleveland Is at 4 and 6. NYK is at 8 and 2. Dallas 7 and 3. Lakers 6 and 4. Celtics can go any which way but the trend is racing toward the bottom due to lack of athletic talent, poor conditioning, and injuries ( all are interrelated).

[Q_FBE]

Post deleted. Sorry did not mean to double post here.

[PosImpos]

More than anything, it demonstrates just how many starting lineups they've trotted out there.

[LooseCannon]

I am not really learning anything by examining individual records by starting lineup. I would rather examine how well the Celtics play during certain stretches of the game and look at rebounding rates per 100 possessions and turnovers rates per 100 possessions and compare that to the league average. 

Looking at the numbers on 82games, it seems like the Celtics turn over the ball less often, relative to their opponents, when Jermaine O'Neal is in the game and that, as far as rebounding goes, Bass/Wilcox > Garnett/O'Neal > Garnett/Bass.

There's a part of me that thinks the Celtics might find something if they reduce Jermaine O'Neal's minutes to the first and last 4-5 minutes of each half.

[PosImpos]

I am not really learning anything by examining individual records by starting lineup. I would rather examine how well the Celtics play during certain stretches of the game and look at rebounding rates per 100 possessions and turnovers rates per 100 possessions and compare that to the league average.

Looking at the numbers on 82games, it seems like the Celtics turn over the ball less often, relative to their opponents, when Jermaine O'Neal is in the game and that, as far as rebounding goes, Bass/Wilcox > Garnett/O'Neal > Garnett/Bass.

There's a part of me that thinks the Celtics might find something if they reduce Jermaine O'Neal's minutes to the first and last 4-5 minutes of each half.

Yeah.  I came to the conclusion a while ago that JO should not play much more than 10 minutes a game.  He's simply too great a liability otherwise.

Without injuries, I'd say the big man rotation (96 minutes total) should be as follows:

KG - 25-28 minutes
Bass - 25-28 minutes
Wilcox - 20 minutes
JO - 10-12 minutes
Stiesma / Johnson - 5-7 minutes

[LooseCannon]

Yeah.  I came to the conclusion a while ago that JO should not play much more than 10 minutes a game.  He's simply too great a liability otherwise.

Without injuries, I'd say the big man rotation (96 minutes total) should be as follows:

KG - 25-28 minutes
Bass - 25-28 minutes
Wilcox - 20 minutes
JO - 10-12 minutes
Stiesma / Johnson - 5-7 minutes

If all are healthy, I'd actually go with a four-man big rotation with KG 30 minutes, JO 15-20 minutes, Bass and Wilcox splitting the rest, Stiemsma and Johnson only playing if someone is in foul trouble.  JO would play in the fourth quarter crunch time lineup for the final five minutes of the game unless it is a blowout or a smallball lineup (with someone like Pietrus?) makes more sense.

That's assuming the team is trying to win games.  If Ainge is giving up, then you play Bass and Wilcox enough to showcase them for trades, after which their PT goes to Johnson and Stiemsma.

[PosImpos]

Yeah.  I came to the conclusion a while ago that JO should not play much more than 10 minutes a game.  He's simply too great a liability otherwise.

Without injuries, I'd say the big man rotation (96 minutes total) should be as follows:

KG - 25-28 minutes
Bass - 25-28 minutes
Wilcox - 20 minutes
JO - 10-12 minutes
Stiesma / Johnson - 5-7 minutes

If all are healthy, I'd actually go with a four-man big rotation with KG 30 minutes, JO 15-20 minutes, Bass and Wilcox splitting the rest, Stiemsma and Johnson only playing if someone is in foul trouble.  JO would play in the fourth quarter crunch time lineup for the final five minutes of the game unless it is a blowout or a smallball lineup (with someone like Pietrus?) makes more sense.

That's assuming the team is trying to win games.  If Ainge is giving up, then you play Bass and Wilcox enough to showcase them for trades, after which their PT goes to Johnson and Stiemsma.

As nice as JO's shot-blocking and post defense is, he's such a liability on the boards and on offense that I don't think it's for the good of the team to play him 15-20 minutes.  If Bass and Wilcox are both healthy and playing well, I think we'd be much better off with them splitting the majority of the big man minutes not taken by KG. 

I'm fine with JO perhaps playing the first few minutes of the game, and being used as a defensive sub late in the game.  But JO should NEVER be on the floor in crunch time if the Celtics are down.

[Kwhit10]

http://www.82games.com/1112/1112BOS2.HTM



Here are the best rebounding lineups minus the 48% group

[PosImpos]

Interesting.

The best lineups by +/- are the following:

Rondo-Allen-Pierce-Garnett-O'Neal (+35)
Bradley-Pietrus-Pierce-Bass-Garnett (+27)
Rondo-Allen-Daniels-Bass-O'Neal (+14)
Bradley-Pietrus-Pierce-Bass-Wilcox (+13)
Bradley-Allen-Pierce-Bass-O'Neal (+13)
Rondo-Allen-Pierce-Pierce-Wilcox-Garnett (+13)
Bradley-Allen-Pierce-Garnett-O'Neal (+12)


Of particular note is the fact that our second most popular lineup, Rondo-Allen-Pierce-Bass-Garnett, is actually one of our worst in terms of +/- (-14).