Ramifications of greed and ego

[Fafnir]

Absolutely.  Not sure how that has anything to do with whether 50% of all revenue isn't the lions share of the money earned, when no other group is earning anywhere close to that amount though.

Again, both sides are going to make a lot of money here.  The players, even at 50% will be making a larger percentage of profit than the owners will...and they should be. 

You must be talking about the 55% of the BRI established in 1999 and then bumped up to 57% in 2005....how did those rates get established?

Were the NBA players the only side at the meeting table back then?

Surgeons in the USA average a base salary of about 300K per year.

Neuro-surgeons...about 473K per year. Should neuro surgeons take pay cuts just to match the rest of the surgeons in the nation?

No, I was referring to the 50% revenue share under a new play.  Even with that cut in salary, the NBA's average player salary will still be significantly higher than the average player salary of any professional sports league in the US (and I believe the entire world, but I am not positive about that one).

As a labor force they'd be getting one of the worst deals.

Fair enough.  Then they should negotiate better.  Because this is not about fairness, it is about who can get the best deal for themselves.

You're right its not about fairness its about negotiation, that doesn't mean you can't look at their own industry (sports) and evaluate the sort of deal they're being offered.

I really have no idea clearer view of what where you are after all these response other than you're bitter about the entire thing and the PR spin.

But given that we as fans have "zero" financial stake (or if they paid for season tickets a small one that probably will be refunded in worst case) in these negotiations that's natural. The fans aren't getting a raw deal in my opinion, because we don't have anymore "right" to have a product sold to us (that we're not paying for right now largely) than the players have a "right" to so much BRI.

[LB3533]

NHL players have been making at least 54% of the HRI since 2005-2006....I am estimating 58% of the HRI for last season (3 billion total revenue).

• The 2005-06 cap is based on projected NHL revenues of just under $1.8 billion for the season. In future years, the players are guaranteed 54 percent of "hockey-related" revenues, with the salary cap adjusted each year to meet that figure. The players' share increases if revenues rise. They get 55 percent when NHL revenues hit $2.2 billion, 56 percent at $2.4 billion, and 57 percent at $2.7 billion.

http://proicehockey.about.com/od/thenewnhl/a/salary_cap_expl.htm


The NFL players are guaranteed 47%, but have the chance to earn up to 48.5%....clearly less than the 50/50.

Personally, I believe the NFL Players Union are the weakest and they have the worst deal out of all major sports in the USA. The key though, is the NFL has the greatest amount of revenue....9 billion in 2010. NFL players made 4.23 billion as a whole collective...that is more than the NBA made in total last season.

Don't get me started on baseball...that sport, in my opinion, has the most overpaid players and may have the best economic system for its players.

[Chris]

Absolutely.  Not sure how that has anything to do with whether 50% of all revenue isn't the lions share of the money earned, when no other group is earning anywhere close to that amount though.

Again, both sides are going to make a lot of money here.  The players, even at 50% will be making a larger percentage of profit than the owners will...and they should be. 

You must be talking about the 55% of the BRI established in 1999 and then bumped up to 57% in 2005....how did those rates get established?

Were the NBA players the only side at the meeting table back then?

Surgeons in the USA average a base salary of about 300K per year.

Neuro-surgeons...about 473K per year. Should neuro surgeons take pay cuts just to match the rest of the surgeons in the nation?

No, I was referring to the 50% revenue share under a new play.  Even with that cut in salary, the NBA's average player salary will still be significantly higher than the average player salary of any professional sports league in the US (and I believe the entire world, but I am not positive about that one).

As a labor force they'd be getting one of the worst deals.

Fair enough.  Then they should negotiate better.  Because this is not about fairness, it is about who can get the best deal for themselves.

You're right its not about fairness its about negotiation, that doesn't mean you can't look at their own industry (sports) and evaluate the sort of deal they're being offered.

I really have no idea clearer view of what where you are after all these response other than you're bitter about the entire thing and the PR spin.

But given that we as fans have "zero" financial stake (or if they paid for season tickets a small one that probably will be refunded in worst case) in these negotiations that's natural. The fans aren't getting a raw deal in my opinion, because we don't have anymore "right" to have a product sold to us (that we're not paying for right now largely) than the players have a "right" to so much BRI.

You're right, the fans aren't getting much of a raw deal either, because they don't owe us anything (other than the games we paid for...which we will get eventually).  I just hate the argument that either side is right or wrong in this, or that there is anything "fair". 

It is just a negotiation.  It is business.  Plain and simple.  No side is being more greedy than the other.  They both are trying to get whatever they can, and they will go to the point that they think is prudent to get it. 

[Celtics4ever]

Owners talking about poor business model? Excuse me, who writes the player's salary checks?

I just don't all the talk about them losing that much money.  If they really were wouldn't they close the WNBA first as it's a cash sink which they subsidize.  They want something like the NFL but they will never have the popularity of football.  Not with them marketing choke artist like LeBron as the latest and greatest.

[Roy H.]

 If they really were wouldn't they close the WNBA first as it's a cash sink which they subsidize.  

Even putting aside the argument that the WNBA is essentially advertising / marketing for the NBA, according to Stern the WNBA finally broke even / turned a small profit last season.  I dug up the link earlier, and it should probably be taken with a grain of salt, but that's Stern's position.

[Celtics4ever]

I recall they were doing better but did not read they broke even.  I will take your word for it and stand corrected.  Still this is the first year in how many?

[nickagneta]

I read an article about the WNBA having one team make a profit last year, I think it was Connecticut and the article was in December or maybe this January. Then reports surfaced that suddenly the whole league broke even just about the time it looked like a lockout was inevitable. But looking at stagnant ticket prices over the last ten years in the WNBA, stagnant player salaries, and decreasing attendance without any major boost in television revenue, I have a very hard time believing that.

I think that was all a lie to get people to not clamor for the WNBA to be shut down in order to save money for the NBA. I still think the WNBA is a major cash cow for the NBA and costing them millions every year.

[KCattheStripe]

I think that was all a lie to get people to not clamor for the WNBA to be shut down in order to save money for the NBA. I still think the WNBA is a major cash cow for the NBA and costing them millions every year.

Wait, does "Cash Cow" not mean what i thought it did?

[guava_wrench]

NHL players have been making at least 54% of the HRI since 2005-2006....I am estimating 58% of the HRI for last season (3 billion total revenue).

• The 2005-06 cap is based on projected NHL revenues of just under $1.8 billion for the season. In future years, the players are guaranteed 54 percent of "hockey-related" revenues, with the salary cap adjusted each year to meet that figure. The players' share increases if revenues rise. They get 55 percent when NHL revenues hit $2.2 billion, 56 percent at $2.4 billion, and 57 percent at $2.7 billion.

http://proicehockey.about.com/od/thenewnhl/a/salary_cap_expl.htm


The NFL players are guaranteed 47%, but have the chance to earn up to 48.5%....clearly less than the 50/50.

Personally, I believe the NFL Players Union are the weakest and they have the worst deal out of all major sports in the USA. The key though, is the NFL has the greatest amount of revenue....9 billion in 2010. NFL players made 4.23 billion as a whole collective...that is more than the NBA made in total last season.

Don't get me started on baseball...that sport, in my opinion, has the most overpaid players and may have the best economic system for its players.

Baseball can be like that because young all-stars get paid way below their value. I remember a year where the starting infield in the NL all star game was Howard, Utley, Reyes and Wright, all of whom were making about $400k that year. Crazy. That frees up a lot of money for the guys who can actually become free agents.

[indeedproceed]

I think that was all a lie to get people to not clamor for the WNBA to be shut down in order to save money for the NBA. I still think the WNBA is a major cash cow for the NBA and costing them millions every year.

Wait, does "Cash Cow" not mean what i thought it did?

It still means what you think it means, it doesn't mean what nick thinks it means.

[LB3533]

NHL players have been making at least 54% of the HRI since 2005-2006....I am estimating 58% of the HRI for last season (3 billion total revenue).

• The 2005-06 cap is based on projected NHL revenues of just under $1.8 billion for the season. In future years, the players are guaranteed 54 percent of "hockey-related" revenues, with the salary cap adjusted each year to meet that figure. The players' share increases if revenues rise. They get 55 percent when NHL revenues hit $2.2 billion, 56 percent at $2.4 billion, and 57 percent at $2.7 billion.

http://proicehockey.about.com/od/thenewnhl/a/salary_cap_expl.htm


The NFL players are guaranteed 47%, but have the chance to earn up to 48.5%....clearly less than the 50/50.

Personally, I believe the NFL Players Union are the weakest and they have the worst deal out of all major sports in the USA. The key though, is the NFL has the greatest amount of revenue....9 billion in 2010. NFL players made 4.23 billion as a whole collective...that is more than the NBA made in total last season.

Don't get me started on baseball...that sport, in my opinion, has the most overpaid players and may have the best economic system for its players.

Baseball can be like that because young all-stars get paid way below their value. I remember a year where the starting infield in the NL all star game was Howard, Utley, Reyes and Wright, all of whom were making about $400k that year. Crazy. That frees up a lot of money for the guys who can actually become free agents.

I understand younger players, prospects and stars on their rookie pay scales are very cheap, but there are some massively overpaid players in MLB....its just gross.

Sabathia, although an effective pitcher, he is massively overpaid.

Then there are guys like Barry Zito, Mike Hampton, Lackey....

There was a time when A-Rod had some form of justification for his enormous contract, but now he's no where even close to meeting his current deal.

Jeter's never been worth his contract and I am surprised he was able to get his most recent contract.

In the NBA there may be one Joe Johnson contract or one Rashard Lewis deal....but there are many of those types of horrid contracts in the MLB.

[Fafnir]

Sabathia, although an effective pitcher, he is massively overpaid.

He's really not, when you're one the few high level starting pitchers on the free agent market your value is incredibly high.

CC is one of the few big FA pitcher contracts that's worked out for his new team!

[nickagneta]

I think that was all a lie to get people to not clamor for the WNBA to be shut down in order to save money for the NBA. I still think the WNBA is a major cash cow for the NBA and costing them millions every year.

Wait, does "Cash Cow" not mean what i thought it did?

It still means what you think it means, it doesn't mean what nick thinks it means.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G2y8Sx4B2Sk

Oops.

[LB3533]

Sabathia, although an effective pitcher, he is massively overpaid.

He's really not, when you're one the few high level starting pitchers on the free agent market your value is incredibly high.

CC is one of the few big FA pitcher contracts that's worked out for his new team!

He shouldn't be making more than Halladay.