WNBA subsidies hurting the owners case.

[Moranis]

According to Stern, the WNBA broke even in 2009 and made a profit in 2010.  Also, it's clear that the league sees this as a long-term outreach project to attract more female fans to the NBA.

Even if the WNBA was still losing $10 million per season (which it isn't), that's $300k per owner. That wouldn't be a terrible investment. However, reality is rosier than that.

Recent USA Today Article

http://www.usatoday.com/sports/basketball/wnba/2011-06-05-3954097343_x.htm

At the conclusion of the last season the Connecticut Sun became the first and only team in the 15 year history of the WNBA to show profit in a season.  They play at a casino that does not charge them rent (the team does pay for security and what not).  Part of the draw of going to the game is free parking and discounts at the casino and restaurants so they get more fans then most teams (it also helps being 30 miles away from the best women's NCAA program of the last decade). 

Two years ago the league shut down the Houston Comets because it couldn't find a buyer.  The Comets won the first four WNBA titles and are located in a massive market and yet no one would buy the team.

This does not strike me as a league making money, even with the 30 million a year ESPN tv contract.

[Chris]

Women's College Basketball is more popular than the WNBA.

You expect me to believe that a league no one watches or cares about is making more money than the NBA?

Get real.

Why not?  They play in much cheaper arenas in many cases, they pay the players almost nothing, but they still sell a decent number of tickets, have a TV deal with ESPN, some local radio and TV deals, and have a market for sponsors that are targeting women athletics.

Yeah, the Revenues are a fraction of the NBA's, but the costs are as well, so I don't see why that's so hard to believe.

 

[Roy H.]

Women's College Basketball is more popular than the WNBA.

You expect me to believe that a league no one watches or cares about is making more money than the NBA?

Get real.

Nobody thinks they make more money, in terms of total incoming revenue.  However, they may make more profit.

[nickagneta]

OP - Do you even now what GAAP is?  It's the same set of rules that all publicly traded companies must follow when reporting their financials.  So you're saying the NBA should report it's balance sheet differently than Wal-mart, Coca Cola, IBM, American Express, and Microsoft? 

GAAP stands for generally accepted accounting principals and is in place in part to ensure companies follow a standard which prevents them from creatively trying to manipulate the results in their favor.  So you're trying to say the owners are using GAAP to manipulate the numbers in their favor?  Any independent auditing firm would favor the NBA. 

There is actually no dispute from the NBPA that some teams are losing money; the dispute is the acutal loss amount. 

I read an article recently that said NBA team ownership turnover is at it's highest since the last CBA.  If you feel owners are doing so well with their NBA franchises; why are so many so eager to get out?

Yes, I understand what GAAP stands for and am not saying they should report things differently.

But, as has been reported, many, many teams are affiliated with other companies and investments that have little to nothing to do with NBA basketball but fall under the company umbrella of the team. Besides the depreciation of the players as assets, these side ventures are also being called into question by the players.

Just because these teams have provided financials that are GAAP doesn't mean that the numbers can't have be maneuvered to look different than the reality of the situation.

[TheReaLPuba]

Women's College Basketball is more popular than the WNBA.

You expect me to believe that a league no one watches or cares about is making more money than the NBA?

Get real.

Nobody thinks they make more money, in terms of total incoming revenue.  However, they may make more profit.

This "profit" they make is because the NBA helps them out.

And they don't pay their players enough.

Does that mean it's a successful league?

[Roy H.]

Women's College Basketball is more popular than the WNBA.

You expect me to believe that a league no one watches or cares about is making more money than the NBA?

Get real.

Nobody thinks they make more money, in terms of total incoming revenue.  However, they may make more profit.

This "profit" they make is because the NBA helps them out.

And they don't pay their players enough.

Does that mean it's a successful league?

I'm not sure how your two statements reconcile.

The league isn't profitable on its own, but they should pay their players more?  How do you calculate what is "enough" pay?

[nickagneta]

I don't believe Stern saying the WNBA is making a profit.

Attendance is down almost 20% since the league opened

http://womensbasketballonline.com/wnba/attendance/sbsatten.pdf

The Sun were the first team to ever make a profit and that was just last year and had some special reasons why they did turn that profit

http://www.bizofbasketball.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=820:connecticut-sun-first-wnba-team-to-turn-a-profit&catid=34:nba-news&Itemid=54

There television ratings are anemic and they have trouble getting a half million viewers even though they are on ABC and ESPN, national networks that all cable companies carry.

Heck, finding a reliable source to say what the tv deal with ESPN/ABC is worth, is almost impossible, like it is some state secret.

Stern wants people to believe that the WNBA with lower attendance than 14 years ago with rising costs and salaries about equal to what they were and with only one team claiming profitability is a profitable venture but the NBA is bleeding money to the tune of $370 million a year?

I don't buy it.

[TheReaLPuba]

Women's College Basketball is more popular than the WNBA.

You expect me to believe that a league no one watches or cares about is making more money than the NBA?

That's just it though.

How do we definite the league as being profitable?

The Owners making a profit?

Or the league itself generates more revenue vs. cost.

If we pay every single WNBA player 30K a year and the owners pocket money.

Ok sure they make more profits than the NBA but is it more successful than the NBA?
Get real.

Nobody thinks they make more money, in terms of total incoming revenue.  However, they may make more profit.

I'm not sure how your two statements reconcile.

The league isn't profitable on its own, but they should pay their players more?  How do you calculate what is "enough" pay?

This "profit" they make is because the NBA helps them out.

And they don't pay their players enough.

Does that mean it's a successful league?

Fixed.

[Eja117]

According to Stern, the WNBA broke even in 2009 and made a profit in 2010.  Also, it's clear that the league sees this as a long-term outreach project to attract more female fans to the NBA.

Even if the WNBA was still losing $10 million per season (which it isn't), that's $300k per owner. That wouldn't be a terrible investment. However, reality is rosier than that.

I agree with this.  The players are allowed to try to make an investment for the good of the game.  If they drew in all the women they wanted they would potentially make double the money.  It's an expense the same as any other.  The players don't complain about quite a few other things that make them no money like private jets and 5 star hotels.

[Moranis]

According to Stern, the WNBA broke even in 2009 and made a profit in 2010.  Also, it's clear that the league sees this as a long-term outreach project to attract more female fans to the NBA.

Even if the WNBA was still losing $10 million per season (which it isn't), that's $300k per owner. That wouldn't be a terrible investment. However, reality is rosier than that.

I agree with this.  The players are allowed to try to make an investment for the good of the game.  If they drew in all the women they wanted they would potentially make double the money.  It's an expense the same as any other.  The players don't complain about quite a few other things that make them no money like private jets and 5 star hotels.

I know plenty of women that like basketball, they watch the NBA not the WNBA.  They watch Men's NCAA, not Women's NCAA.  I have hard time believing the WNBA grows the NBA game.  I just don't buy it.