Celtic's fans dirty little secret

[GreenEnvy]

Ok, so let's see. The Celtics were 34-10 prior to Perkins return.

So, you think our bench was better then?

Is 'Quis, Harangody, Erden, and Nate better than Green, Krstic, Murphy, and Arroyo? Not really.

Are you insinuating that the thought of Perkins' return propelled the team to play better than the touch of the O'Brien trophy would now?

Shaq may be a bigger piece to this puzzle than we want to admit.

BUT.... we can still beat this team without him. The guys that get minutes need to put forth a better effort, that's it.

Yes I think our bench was better before the trades. Quis, erden, and mate all have given us something in the past. Green, kristic, arroyo, etc. have given us NOTHING. Add to it that pre trade we would have jermaine off the bench giving is good minutes and its no big deal if shaq doesn't come back. Not to mention our championship starting lineup us intact and you have either nate or d west to go to with the second unit or both together to give rondo a blow.

And where did I say they want perk more than the trophy? Don't put words in my mouth. I don't know what you're watching but the second unit doesn't play well together. They don't know eachother. You cant just throw guys together on a whim. Doesn't work and will never work. It even took Miami a year to get it. Danny has changed this team every year.

I agree shaw is a big part of the puzzle but anyone who thought relying on an injured 39 year old who is 350 pounds is a fool.

worst of all this team was worse for this year and worse for the future.  We have no pieces going forward. Even Rondo has regressed.  Maybe Perk isn't a franchise Center but he gave us a better chance of winning this year while green doesn't and doesn't give us a piece for the future.

What on Earth has Erden and Harangody given us that we haven't gotten our of Krstic? 'Quis played well for us, but was always an injury away from missing the season. And surprise surprise, he suffered a season-ending injury. Nate was good (not great) for us in the playoffs last year, but absolutely atrocious this season. Green is far and away the most talented bench player we have had in recent memory.

I never said you, or anyone, said they wanted Perk more than a ring. I'm saying what valid reason is there to their excellent play early in the season compared to now. Since we don't want to look at the obvious (Hello...SHAQ), let's make up reasons.

I'm watching the same thing you're watching. The same second unit we've had for years that can't seem to score. Different names, same results. Exactly why that is is beyond me.

This team is still good enough to win without Shaq. Honestly, take the Training Camp roster in this series, deal with the injuries, and I don't see how we are in any better a position.

If Shaq can come back for Game 3, he can provide the physical and emotional lift this team desperately needs.

Honestly, I'd be SHOCKED if Shaq doesn't lay it all out there on Saturday.

I wouldn't even want him on the team next season (if there is one) if he doesn't risk his sunset if need be.

[17wasEZ]

Our Big three dont have the legs they used to have back in 2008. Ive been saying that for 3 years now. slowly but surely, Kevin and PP are not as quick as they used to be. Time takes it toll. Allen cant get open as much as he used to in the past. We dont have a player that can create his own shot on a consistent basis. Our shots have to be created in the most part from a standing position.Lebron Kobe,Wade, Rose etc. can take it to the basket. Ours cant do it as consistently as they used to. The legs are not there after a long season. Its the curse of older players. Thats why older players have to be traded before they lose all their value. what do you think its going to happen next year with our big three? Are they willing to come of the bench?They are Gone as fast as they can leave for a chance to win it with another team. Maybe PP will stay, Maybe cause he has some records he wants to pursue, I think. But their time has come and gone. Thats it. We are not taking 4 games from the Heat, Lebron and wade are going to kill us every game and we have absolutely nobody to stop them. Not even the Bulls. The Heat this this year what we did in 88. Smart move. Or are we the only team that is allowed to go and buy a pennant?

Dude, they have played only 6 games in the last 23 days. Don't see it as being age. Miami is very talented and Boston's bench has bench inconsistent for a long time. If Perk were here and JO were coming off of the bench, then Baby wouldn't be hurting this team and the series would probably be tied.  Same goes if it were Shaq and JO. Green, West a little Baby would be the bench rotation along with either Shaq and JO.  They would be fine.

[GreenFaith1819]

I did not see the game because of school, but I was a little surprised to see us down 0-2.

MIA still has to beat us 2 more games, right? And we have the next two at home.

As for why the team hasn't taken one in MIA? I cannot blame it on the trade...that is too premature.

[PierceMVP08]

Ok, so let's see. The Celtics were 34-10 prior to Perkins return.

So, you think our bench was better then?

Is 'Quis, Harangody, Erden, and Nate better than Green, Krstic, Murphy, and Arroyo? Not really.

Are you insinuating that the thought of Perkins' return propelled the team to play better than the touch of the O'Brien trophy would now?

Shaq may be a bigger piece to this puzzle than we want to admit.

BUT.... we can still beat this team without him. The guys that get minutes need to put forth a better effort, that's it.

Yes I think our bench was better before the trades. Quis, erden, and mate all have given us something in the past. Green, kristic, arroyo, etc. have given us NOTHING. Add to it that pre trade we would have jermaine off the bench giving is good minutes and its no big deal if shaq doesn't come back. Not to mention our championship starting lineup us intact and you have either nate or d west to go to with the second unit or both together to give rondo a blow.

And where did I say they want perk more than the trophy? Don't put words in my mouth. I don't know what you're watching but the second unit doesn't play well together. They don't know eachother. You cant just throw guys together on a whim. Doesn't work and will never work. It even took Miami a year to get it. Danny has changed this team every year.

I agree shaw is a big part of the puzzle but anyone who thought relying on an injured 39 year old who is 350 pounds is a fool.

worst of all this team was worse for this year and worse for the future.  We have no pieces going forward. Even Rondo has regressed.  Maybe Perk isn't a franchise Center but he gave us a better chance of winning this year while green doesn't and doesn't give us a piece for the future.

What on Earth has Erden and Harangody given us that we haven't gotten our of Krstic? 'Quis played well for us, but was always an injury away from missing the season. And surprise surprise, he suffered a season-ending injury. Nate was good (not great) for us in the playoffs last year, but absolutely atrocious this season. Green is far and away the most talented bench player we have had in recent memory.

I never said you, or anyone, said they wanted Perk more than a ring. I'm saying what valid reason is there to their excellent play early in the season compared to now. Since we don't want to look at the obvious (Hello...SHAQ), let's make up reasons.

I'm watching the same thing you're watching. The same second unit we've had for years that can't seem to score. Different names, same results. Exactly why that is is beyond me.

This team is still good enough to win without Shaq. Honestly, take the Training Camp roster in this series, deal with the injuries, and I don't see how we are in any better a position.

If Shaq can come back for Game 3, he can provide the physical and emotional lift this team desperately needs.

Honestly, I'd be SHOCKED if Shaq doesn't lay it all out there on Saturday.

I wouldn't even want him on the team next season (if there is one) if he doesn't risk his sunset if need be.

What on earth have kristic and and green given.  Erden gave this team good minutes when he played which is more than kristic has done and he fit well with thus team following a full training camp. The beauty of Perk being here is that Erden only plays if absolutely necessary. Now we have to rely on kristic and baby at center.  One of our strengths has become a glaring weakness and we didn't upgrade our bench.

I keep hearing that green was the best player in the trade and now you say he is the best player we have had in recent memory.  Well can you tell me what significant contributions he has made? I can tell you games where posey, house, tony Allen, P.J. brown and even Leon powe made huge contributions. Talent doesn't make a champion.  Heart and smart play in addition to talent does and from what I can see green doesn't have those.  In his time here I have yet to see that incredible talent people say he has. I firmly believe the team we started with would be in a much better position.  We had 3/4 of the season as evidence of this.  Since then we have 1/4 plus playoffs to show that this bench and team isn't as good. That's indisputable.

Of course shaq is a big part of the equation he can't be counted on. How anyone can think it was a good nice to trade perk and rely on an injured shaq is beyond me.  Those are things you have to weigh when making a trade. That falls on Ainge

[dlpin]

The idea that Perkins, Erden and Harangody are the difference between being dominated by the heat and beating them is so outlandish that it is hard to respond. It is one of those arguments that is unprovable because we can't have an alternative reality where they are with the celtics.

But the fact is that the celtics struggles started WITH Perkins here. The celtics were 4-3 with Perkins as a starter, despite 6 of those games being at home. The difference is not Perkins, or Harangody, or Erden. The difference is Shaq.

Green and Kristic may have been disappointing, but Perkins isn't exactly lighting the world on fire. The idea that the celtics were overwhelming favorites and that went away with the trade is revisionist history.

[vinnie]

The idea that Perkins, Erden and Harangody are the difference between being dominated by the heat and beating them is so outlandish that it is hard to respond. It is one of those arguments that is unprovable because we can't have an alternative reality where they are with the celtics.

But the fact is that the celtics struggles started WITH Perkins here. The celtics were 4-3 with Perkins as a starter, despite 6 of those games being at home. The difference is not Perkins, or Harangody, or Erden. The difference is Shaq.

Green and Kristic may have been disappointing, but Perkins isn't exactly lighting the world on fire. The idea that the celtics were overwhelming favorites and that went away with the trade is revisionist history.

Correct, the difference is Shaq. And Danny took a gamble that he would be fine for the playoffs. He was wrong -- at least so far.

[PierceMVP08]

The idea that Perkins, Erden and Harangody are the difference between being dominated by the heat and beating them is so outlandish that it is hard to respond. It is one of those arguments that is unprovable because we can't have an alternative reality where they are with the celtics.

But the fact is that the celtics struggles started WITH Perkins here. The celtics were 4-3 with Perkins as a starter, despite 6 of those games being at home. The difference is not Perkins, or Harangody, or Erden. The difference is Shaq.

Green and Kristic may have been disappointing, but Perkins isn't exactly lighting the world on fire. The idea that the celtics were overwhelming favorites and that went away with the trade is revisionist history.

Correct, the difference is Shaq. And Danny took a gamble that he would be fine for the playoffs. He was wrong -- at least so far.

Wow do me and yourself a favor and reread what I have written.  Never did I say those guys are the difference.  I'm talking about continuity and playing as a team. How this team has always been greater than the sum of its parts.  You can't just plug guys in at the end of the year and expect them to fit in. It's not a fantasy league.  There is no bit of evidence that shows any of the trades have worked.  There is evidence that the team was fine before.  I would say being in first place is evidence enough.  You think 7 games is proof perk didnt work with this team? How about the pas three years? What about the 11-21 record after the trade.  Get real. The revisionist history that this team needed a change is outlandish.  I have no idea why I'm responding to you. Please read what's been written or don't respond

[PierceMVP08]

The idea that Perkins, Erden and Harangody are the difference between being dominated by the heat and beating them is so outlandish that it is hard to respond. It is one of those arguments that is unprovable because we can't have an alternative reality where they are with the celtics.

But the fact is that the celtics struggles started WITH Perkins here. The celtics were 4-3 with Perkins as a starter, despite 6 of those games being at home. The difference is not Perkins, or Harangody, or Erden. The difference is Shaq.

Green and Kristic may have been disappointing, but Perkins isn't exactly lighting the world on fire. The idea that the celtics were overwhelming favorites and that went away with the trade is revisionist history.

Also, most analysts had the Celtics as favorites before the trade.  Not so afterwards.  Again that is revisionist history on your end to say any different.

And yes perk isn't "lighting the world aflame" but neither are green and nenad.  In this scenario I think I'd rather go to battle with a team that's been there together before.  Results can only be measured in wins.  The celts have not been any better since the trade.  Indisputable.

[dlpin]

Wow do me and yourself a favor and reread what I have written.  Never did I say those guys are the difference.  I'm talking about continuity and playing as a team. How this team has always been greater than the sum of its parts.  You can't just plug guys in at the end of the year and expect them to fit in. It's not a fantasy league.  There is no bit of evidence that shows any of the trades have worked.  There is evidence that the team was fine before.  I would say being in first place is evidence enough.  You think 7 games is proof perk didnt work with this team? How about the pas three years? What about the 11-21 record after the trade.  Get real. The revisionist history that this team needed a change is outlandish.  I have no idea why I'm responding to you. Please read what's been written or don't respond

The past three years includes the same decline last season... WITH Perkins.

As for continuity, isn't it amazing that this team won it all when all but 3 players were new to the team?

The trade might not have helped, but they are far from being the main reason this team is struggling.


As for "analysts," their opinion is irrelevant. Again, the struggles started BEFORE the trade. That is fact. To write that off as irrelevant IS revisionism.

[PierceMVP08]

Wow do me and yourself a favor and reread what I have written.  Never did I say those guys are the difference.  I'm talking about continuity and playing as a team. How this team has always been greater than the sum of its parts.  You can't just plug guys in at the end of the year and expect them to fit in. It's not a fantasy league.  There is no bit of evidence that shows any of the trades have worked.  There is evidence that the team was fine before.  I would say being in first place is evidence enough.  You think 7 games is proof perk didnt work with this team? How about the pas three years? What about the 11-21 record after the trade.  Get real. The revisionist history that this team needed a change is outlandish.  I have no idea why I'm responding to you. Please read what's been written or don't respond

The past three years includes the same decline last season... WITH Perkins.

As for continuity, isn't it amazing that this team won it all when all but 3 players were new to the team?

The trade might not have helped, but they are far from being the main reason this team is struggling.


As for "analysts," their opinion is irrelevant. Again, the struggles started BEFORE the trade. That is fact. To write that off as irrelevant IS revisionism.

You're focusing too much on Perkins. I've talked about posey, Allen, powe, house, and Perkins.  Yet you focus on one guy and thing. What happened in 2008 was completely unprecedented and probably won't happen again unless the heat do it this year. But even then in both occasions the teams had a full training camp. You can't continue to plug in players at the end of the year and expect it to work and it hasn't over the last three years. Didn't work for the magic either. As much as I hate to say it, look at the Lakers. They've tweaked here and there but haven't overhauled their supporting cast every year, especially not at the end.

And if the analysts opinion doesnt matter, tell me exactly how do you determine which team us the favorite? Before the trade most fans thought the celts were the favorite. Other teams talked about the east going through Boston. afterwards fans stopped thinking we were the favorites along with the analysts. Other teams started talking about how they could beat.  But please tell me what does determine the favorite. The celts were first in the east as well. I guess its you yourself that determines the favorite because other than the above mentioned I'm out of ideas

[dlpin]

You're focusing too much on Perkins. I've talked about posey, Allen, powe, house, and Perkins.  Yet you focus on one guy and thing. What happened in 2008 was completely unprecedented and probably won't happen again unless the heat do it this year. But even then in both occasions the teams had a full training camp. You can't continue to plug in players at the end of the year and expect it to work and it hasn't over the last three years. Didn't work for the magic either. As much as I hate to say it, look at the Lakers. They've tweaked here and there but haven't overhauled their supporting cast every year, especially not at the end.

And if the analysts opinion doesnt matter, tell me exactly how do you determine which team us the favorite? Before the trade most fans thought the celts were the favorite. Other teams talked about the east going through Boston. afterwards fans stopped thinking we were the favorites along with the analysts. Other teams started talking about how they could beat.  But please tell me what does determine the favorite. The celts were first in the east as well. I guess its you yourself that determines the favorite because other than the above mentioned I'm out of ideas

Powe, the guy who couldn't crack the rotation on the cavs? Posey, a guy who barely plays on the pacers? House, the guy who can't even step on the court for a very thin heat? these are the guys who are the difference between losing in the second round and a championship?

[WedmanIsMyHero]

Absolutely correct.

Wow do me and yourself a favor and reread what I have written.  Never did I say those guys are the difference.  I'm talking about continuity and playing as a team. How this team has always been greater than the sum of its parts.  You can't just plug guys in at the end of the year and expect them to fit in. It's not a fantasy league.  There is no bit of evidence that shows any of the trades have worked.  There is evidence that the team was fine before.  I would say being in first place is evidence enough.  You think 7 games is proof perk didnt work with this team? How about the pas three years? What about the 11-21 record after the trade.  Get real. The revisionist history that this team needed a change is outlandish.  I have no idea why I'm responding to you. Please read what's been written or don't respond

The past three years includes the same decline last season... WITH Perkins.

As for continuity, isn't it amazing that this team won it all when all but 3 players were new to the team?

The trade might not have helped, but they are far from being the main reason this team is struggling.


As for "analysts," their opinion is irrelevant. Again, the struggles started BEFORE the trade. That is fact. To write that off as irrelevant IS revisionism.

You're focusing too much on Perkins. I've talked about posey, Allen, powe, house, and Perkins.  Yet you focus on one guy and thing. What happened in 2008 was completely unprecedented and probably won't happen again unless the heat do it this year. But even then in both occasions the teams had a full training camp. You can't continue to plug in players at the end of the year and expect it to work and it hasn't over the last three years. Didn't work for the magic either. As much as I hate to say it, look at the Lakers. They've tweaked here and there but haven't overhauled their supporting cast every year, especially not at the end.

And if the analysts opinion doesnt matter, tell me exactly how do you determine which team us the favorite? Before the trade most fans thought the celts were the favorite. Other teams talked about the east going through Boston. afterwards fans stopped thinking we were the favorites along with the analysts. Other teams started talking about how they could beat.  But please tell me what does determine the favorite. The celts were first in the east as well. I guess its you yourself that determines the favorite because other than the above mentioned I'm out of ideas