Hakeem Looks Great (Training Sessions w/Dwight Howard)

[Chris]

The whole purpose of me coming up and making this pitch, time and time again, is that there are many who put Ewing at par with Hakeem and thus, denigrate the Houston titles as a fluke, due to His Majesty Airness Thy Michael Kingdom Come taking a snoozer, as oppose to the fact that Ewing was no alpha male scorer extraordinaire and thus, could never lead the all defensive squad to a title.

Do people really put Hakeem on par with Ewing?  Maybe its just recently after SG's "Ewing Theory" came out, but I think most people put Hakeem at least a tier or two above Ewing.

...although I do think the Houston titles wouldn't have happened if Jordan didn't go on hiatus.  But that isn't a knock on Hakeem, it is just because that Bulls team was an absolute force with Jordan.

[indeedproceed]

The whole purpose of me coming up and making this pitch, time and time again, is that there are many who put Ewing at par with Hakeem and thus, denigrate the Houston titles as a fluke, due to His Majesty Airness Thy Michael Kingdom Come taking a snoozer, as oppose to the fact that Ewing was no alpha male scorer extraordinaire and thus, could never lead the all defensive squad to a title.

Do people really put Hakeem on par with Ewing?  Maybe its just recently after SG's "Ewing Theory" came out, but I think most people put Hakeem at least a tier or two above Ewing.

...although I do think the Houston titles wouldn't have happened if Jordan didn't go on hiatus.  But that isn't a knock on Hakeem, it is just because that Bulls team was an absolute force with Jordan.

Many a sports writer and fan have wondered how a finals would've gone against a Hakeem led 95 team with Clyde, against a Jordan led team. In 95 I think Hakeem wins, but in 96 (when the Bulls went for 72 and Rodman came on board) I don't know...that wasn't a bad team.

[TitleMaster]

it is just because that Bulls team was an absolute force with Jordan

The Bulls were a great defensive team with one alpha male scorer extraordinaire. The Riley Knicks, however, despite being a great defensive squad, never had that player but in spite of that fact, had numerous 7 game clashes with the Bulls. And really, if it weren't for that fathom call, the Bulls would have advanced in '94, even w/o Michael in charge.

My point is that Hakeem, in place of Ewing, would have resulted in the Knicks winning several titles in the early to mid-90s, because Hakeem wouldn't have to be the help defender for the entire squad, like he was at Houston, and could focus on the paint and doing the damage that he usually does. Cartwright/Grant vis-a-vis Pippen wouldn't have a way of containing him especially with the likes of others like Oakley, Mason, & Starks roaming free to take uncontested jumpers or layups.

[Chris]

My point is that Hakeem, in place of Ewing, would have resulted in the Knicks winning several titles in the early to mid-90s, because Hakeem wouldn't have to be the help defender for the entire squad, like he was at Houston, and could focus on the paint and doing the damage that he usually does. Cartwright/Grant vis-a-vis Pippen wouldn't have a way of containing him especially with the likes of others like Oakley, Mason, & Starks roaming free to take uncontested jumpers or layups.

I agree with this...and honestly, I am not sure there are many people who wouldn't.

[TitleMaster]

I agree with this...and honestly, I am not sure there are many people who wouldn't.

If you read my earlier thread on the topic matter, a number of folks don't agree.

http://forums.celticsblog.com/index.php?topic=40546.msg822953#msg822953

The primary idea is that Jordan elevates others but at the same time, the Bulls' defenses have *less* to do with it than let's say the opposing team's defenses. That's where I cry bloody murder in the sense that there's no such thing as a one man team.

Yes, you can have one superstar, who can score and defend others at will, however, if the other 4 on the court aren't holding their ground, then it's another Bernard King story. And we all remember how King could easily drop 40+ ppg on McHale, Parish, & Max.

Where the Riley Knicks comes into the picture is that that's the perfectly coached team, for a person like Hakeem in the middle. In many of those 7 game contests, against either the Bulls or the Pacers, Ewing was the one who dropped the torch and thus, never really served as the alpha male for his squad.

From my other thread, here's the scenario which Ewing couldn't pull off...

"The Clock is winding down, the final possession of Game 6, Hakeem's got the ball.
Cartwright is on him.
He fakes, then he spins.
Grant and Pippen shore up both sides, another fake, a near foul by the Dream.
Starks and Mason break free. The Dream bullets the pass to Starks.
Starks goes for the pull up jumper.
It's no good.
But wait ...
Tipped in by Olajuwon!
The New York Knicks win the series.
It's all over... Hakeem Olajuwon has led his men to the NBA Finals."

[Chris]

I agree with this...and honestly, I am not sure there are many people who wouldn't.

If you read my earlier thread on the topic matter, a number of folks don't agree.

http://forums.celticsblog.com/index.php?topic=40546.msg822953#msg822953

The primary idea is that Jordan elevates others but at the same time, the Bulls' defenses have *less* to do with it than let's say the opposing team's defenses. That's where I cry bloody murder in the sense that there's no such thing as a one man team.

Yes, you can have one superstar, who can score and defend others at will, however, if the other 4 on the court aren't holding their ground, then it's another Bernard King story. And we all remember how King could easily drop 40+ ppg on McHale, Parish, & Max.

Where the Riley Knicks comes into the picture is that that's the perfectly coached team, for a person like Hakeem in the middle. In many of those 7 game contests, against either the Bulls or the Pacers, Ewing was the one who dropped the torch and thus, never really served as the alpha male for his squad.

From my other thread, here's the scenario which Ewing couldn't pull off...

"The Clock is winding down, the final possession of Game 6, Hakeem's got the ball.
Cartwright is on him.
He fakes, then he spins.
Grant and Pippen shore up both sides, another fake, a near foul by the Dream.
Starks and Mason break free. The Dream bullets the pass to Starks.
Starks goes for the pull up jumper.
It's no good.
But wait ...
Tipped in by Olajuwon!
The New York Knicks win the series.
It's all over... Hakeem Olajuwon has led his men to the NBA Finals."

That thread was all over the place, but from what I read, I only saw one poster disagree with the idea that the Knicks would have beaten the Bulls if they had Hakeem over Ewing.

[nba is the worst]

IMHO, Hakeem is the most underrated player of the past 3 decades, if not more. He played in the shadow of other members of his class (Jordan, Barkley, Drexler), but at this point if redrafting that class and taking out the consideration of marketing revenue I'd have to think twice on the #1 pick.

TP!

But, I don't think he is underrated @ all he chooses to stay out of the limelight and live a simple (by NBA standards) life.

He is not on TNT every night running his mouth or dancing on Dancing With The Stars.

He easily eclipsed and dominated his peers Ewing and Robinson.  He also took a young Shaq to school.

I mean Shaq (IMHO) is the only big (from the time frame you specified) you can put ahead of Hakeem.  Duncan is a good debate but (IMHO) I dont even think they are on the same planet.

Hakeem was a freaking BEAST as complete a player as there ever was.

Because he stays out of the spotlight (out of sight out of mind) he tends to get forgotten.  But if you bring up his name to any bball of fan of that era...if they did forget about him, they quickly remember and will agree with how great he was with no argument.

The man was sick best footwork ever.  NBA all time leader in blocks.  Filthy just dam dirty in the post.  Dream Shake unstoppable as the Sky Hook (but so much prettier)  Not only that, but at his size the man could pick your pocket like Rondo can.

If Dwight can actually incorporate these moves Hakeem is teaching in to his game...boy whatever team he is on is gonna be a problem!

His vertical leap was amazing - love the dunk where his elbow is even with the rim - and the 2 plays owning Ewing.

Dwight should have studied with him sooner!

[thirstyboots18]

Hakeem is one of the great philanthropist in NBA history.  He was also (except for the finger wiggle, maybe) one of the most likeable big men (much like Shaq is).   It was very hard to "hate" Hakeem.  Just a happy personality.

[EJPLAYA]

Hakeem is one of the great philanthropist in NBA history.  He was also (except for the finger wiggle, maybe) one of the most likeable big men (much like Shaq is).   It was very hard to "hate" Hakeem.  Just a happy personality.

I think you are thinking of Dikembe Mutombo, not Hakeem.

[thirstyboots18]

Ahhh, EJ....thank you for bringing it to my attention (as well as  everyone else's, ha ha ha).  Blame it on brain cramp!   Of course, you are correct!