Body Mass Index and Obesity

[KungPoweChicken]

There is too much going on for us to control for weight when trying to figure out ideals.

Looking at hunting and gathering groups, which is what our species was for most of our history, they look pretty lean. It may be that our body evolved to have maximum life expectancy at a much leaner body size than we consider decent looking at present. On the other hand, we evolved in ways that allowed our ancestors genes to be passed on, not in ways that would make our life enjoyable or worth living. We also likely did not evolve such that we would be healthy long past our fertile years when we no longer need to nurse.

Studies seem to show that extreme caloric restriction actually extends life expectancy, but that the restrictions are so extreme that is greatly decreases the quality of living.

My point is that there needs to be a trade-off between longevity and what will make your life livable based on your personality, including what you enjoy. This trade-off needs to take into account long-term effects, since most of us would rather make some sacrifices now than go through dialysis as a result of really bad diabetes.

I like your post. I'd like to add, however, to the people who are using large athletes and body builders as evidence to the contrary of the BMI, who says they are healthy in terms of longevity? Sure, they can run fast and they are strong (healthy in the present). But there have not been any scientific studies, which suggest these people have better longevity, which is what really matters. To my knowledge, like Guava_Wrench said, most longevity studies point to calorie restriction. Large body mass index, whether from fat or from weight lifting, seems to be bad for longevity.

As far as I'm concerned, I don't find the BMI to be as absurd as some people do. It should be attainable for everyone. Americans who lived in the early 1900's would be laughing their knickers off at this thread. Anyone who weighs more than 180lbs is probably, no doubt, at an increased risk of high cholesterol, high blood pressure, and a whole slew of other health problems.


And I really don't like the whole argument of, "If this is the standard tool for thinness, no wonder why so many women have eating disorders." America is the most obese country in the world. It seems like these days I see more fat women than thin women. Are we as a country just going to concede being fat now?


I believe there probably is a genetic component to obesity. And genetics plays a role in how your body type is, no doubt. Paul Piece is really fit, probably has very low body fat, and yet his body type is extremely different from Ray Allen, who is another finely tuned athlete at a comparative age. However, genetics is no excuse to be obese or even "fat," not in my opinion anyway.



I was once a high school athlete like the OP. when I played basketball and baseball, I weighed 150lbs. Keep in mind that I was a few inches shorter than the OP too. Nevertheless, I couldn't imagine carrying any more weight than 150lbs without feeling like a tank.


At present day, I'm almost in my mid twenties and weigh about 143lbs (lost weight because I don't lift weights anymore). I consume mostly fruits and vegetables and sometimes binge on junk food.

[Rondo_is_better]

There is too much going on for us to control for weight when trying to figure out ideals.

Looking at hunting and gathering groups, which is what our species was for most of our history, they look pretty lean. It may be that our body evolved to have maximum life expectancy at a much leaner body size than we consider decent looking at present. On the other hand, we evolved in ways that allowed our ancestors genes to be passed on, not in ways that would make our life enjoyable or worth living. We also likely did not evolve such that we would be healthy long past our fertile years when we no longer need to nurse.

Studies seem to show that extreme caloric restriction actually extends life expectancy, but that the restrictions are so extreme that is greatly decreases the quality of living.

My point is that there needs to be a trade-off between longevity and what will make your life livable based on your personality, including what you enjoy. This trade-off needs to take into account long-term effects, since most of us would rather make some sacrifices now than go through dialysis as a result of really bad diabetes.

I like your post. I'd like to add, however, to the people who are using large athletes and body builders as evidence to the contrary of the BMI, who says they are healthy in terms of longevity? Sure, they can run fast and they are strong (healthy in the present). But there have not been any scientific studies, which suggest these people have better longevity, which is what really matters. To my knowledge, like Guava_Wrench said, most longevity studies point to calorie restriction. Large body mass index, whether from fat or from weight lifting, seems to be bad for longevity.

As far as I'm concerned, I don't find the BMI to be as absurd as some people do. It should be attainable for everyone. Americans who lived in the early 1900's would be laughing their knickers off at this thread. Anyone who weighs more than 180lbs is probably, no doubt, at an increased risk of high cholesterol, high blood pressure, and a whole slew of other health problems.


And I really don't like the whole argument of, "If this is the standard tool for thinness, no wonder why so many women have eating disorders." America is the most obese country in the world. It seems like these days I see more fat women than thin women. Are we as a country just going to concede being fat now?


I believe there probably is a genetic component to obesity. And genetics plays a role in how your body type is, no doubt. Paul Piece is really fit, probably has very low body fat, and yet his body type is extremely different from Ray Allen, who is another finely tuned athlete at a comparative age. However, genetics is no excuse to be obese or even "fat," not in my opinion anyway.



I was once a high school athlete like the OP. when I played basketball and baseball, I weighed 150lbs. Keep in mind that I was a few inches shorter than the OP too. Nevertheless, I couldn't imagine carrying any more weight than 150lbs without feeling like a tank.


At present day, I'm almost in my mid twenties and weigh about 143lbs (lost weight because I don't lift weights anymore). I consume mostly fruits and vegetables and sometimes binge on junk food.

You sound like a tiny dude. The idea of weighing 180+ seems like its foreign to you because you'd have to put on an extra 30-40 pounds of fat or muscle to reach that. That would mean getting really fat or really jacked -- for you.

For me, a current athlete, weighing 180 is pretty normal. I'm 5'11 177, so I'd only have to gain 5 pounds to get into what you consider "the danger zone". I have a little extra fat on me, but I weighed 167 at the beginning of summer before I began my weight lifting program... I'm just a big guy. My frame is big, my shoulders are wide. 

[KungPoweChicken]

There is too much going on for us to control for weight when trying to figure out ideals.

Looking at hunting and gathering groups, which is what our species was for most of our history, they look pretty lean. It may be that our body evolved to have maximum life expectancy at a much leaner body size than we consider decent looking at present. On the other hand, we evolved in ways that allowed our ancestors genes to be passed on, not in ways that would make our life enjoyable or worth living. We also likely did not evolve such that we would be healthy long past our fertile years when we no longer need to nurse.

Studies seem to show that extreme caloric restriction actually extends life expectancy, but that the restrictions are so extreme that is greatly decreases the quality of living.

My point is that there needs to be a trade-off between longevity and what will make your life livable based on your personality, including what you enjoy. This trade-off needs to take into account long-term effects, since most of us would rather make some sacrifices now than go through dialysis as a result of really bad diabetes.

I like your post. I'd like to add, however, to the people who are using large athletes and body builders as evidence to the contrary of the BMI, who says they are healthy in terms of longevity? Sure, they can run fast and they are strong (healthy in the present). But there have not been any scientific studies, which suggest these people have better longevity, which is what really matters. To my knowledge, like Guava_Wrench said, most longevity studies point to calorie restriction. Large body mass index, whether from fat or from weight lifting, seems to be bad for longevity.

As far as I'm concerned, I don't find the BMI to be as absurd as some people do. It should be attainable for everyone. Americans who lived in the early 1900's would be laughing their knickers off at this thread. Anyone who weighs more than 180lbs is probably, no doubt, at an increased risk of high cholesterol, high blood pressure, and a whole slew of other health problems.


And I really don't like the whole argument of, "If this is the standard tool for thinness, no wonder why so many women have eating disorders." America is the most obese country in the world. It seems like these days I see more fat women than thin women. Are we as a country just going to concede being fat now?


I believe there probably is a genetic component to obesity. And genetics plays a role in how your body type is, no doubt. Paul Piece is really fit, probably has very low body fat, and yet his body type is extremely different from Ray Allen, who is another finely tuned athlete at a comparative age. However, genetics is no excuse to be obese or even "fat," not in my opinion anyway.



I was once a high school athlete like the OP. when I played basketball and baseball, I weighed 150lbs. Keep in mind that I was a few inches shorter than the OP too. Nevertheless, I couldn't imagine carrying any more weight than 150lbs without feeling like a tank.


At present day, I'm almost in my mid twenties and weigh about 143lbs (lost weight because I don't lift weights anymore). I consume mostly fruits and vegetables and sometimes binge on junk food.

You sound like a tiny dude. The idea of weighing 180+ seems like its foreign to you because you'd have to put on an extra 30-40 pounds of fat or muscle to reach that. That would mean getting really fat or really jacked -- for you.

For me, a current athlete, weighing 180 is pretty normal. I'm 5'11 177, so I'd only have to gain 5 pounds to get into what you consider "the danger zone". I have a little extra fat on me, but I weighed 167 at the beginning of summer before I began my weight lifting program... I'm just a big guy. My frame is big, my shoulders are wide. 

As long as you're an athlete, the "danger zone" concept is negated. If you're fairly young and an athlete, I'm sure that weight is fine. The point I was trying to make was about how there have never been any studies linking longevity to a large BMI, whether from fat or from muscle.

also, I wouldn't quite call myself tiny. Back when I was a high school athlete, I was about 5'7" and 150lbs. Keep in mind, I'm a few inches below the average height. Nevertheless, your reply makes me think you're conjuring up an image of DJ Qualls or something. That wasn't me and never has been me. I've always had a proportionate, athletic, swimmer's/runner's build. I had a lot of friends, who played football at the time, and really bulked up weight wise. To me, I just didn't see how that exemplified fitness, although I definitely see how it can make you a better athlete. Anyway, the point of this reply is just to clear that up. I used to weigh 150lbs, like I said, and I could bench a little over 200lbs on a max. I certainly wasn't that "scrawny dude" in school. Yet I wasn't that "big jacked guy" either. And coming from the perspective my body type, simmer/runner, gaining another 40lbs would be absurd.

[makaveli]

It is not enough to calculate your BMI, you have to know what type your body is(endo-mezo-ekto morphs and various combinations). I'm a student of kinesiology(movement) and BMI is not really telling the whole story.

[SouthernJoan]

the BMI is just a ratio of weight to height. So it's not accurate and can't tell the difference between muscle and fat. For example a very muscular people can have a bad BMI while their body fat might be below 15%. I am not a big fan of BMI, but it is a place to start.

[MattG12]

Man that's rough. I'm willing to bet that one of those meds you take is for depression, as I'm a little sad for you myself for the fact that your life is 99% occupied. The business (as a former restaurant owner, I get it) can be a huge burden at times, the kids, taking care of your family, then having to come home and burn off a couple hours of pent up pooch energy...[dang], I'm tired!

BMI=BS for sure. I'm far from an elite athlete, but my bmi says I am in the obese range too, that I am 29 lbs overweight. Also, it's not just the system that's flawed with BMI, it's the scale (no pun intended) that they use. They say a 30 yr old man who is my height 5'7" ideal body weight is 150lbs. Seriously? I'd look like a malnourished street urchin if I was that weight!

I'm sure you weren't looking for advice with this post, but keep walking the dogs and keep working hard. Anything you do is better than nothing at all, and you don't have to diet, just alter your diet from time to time. A simple thing like eating less red meat over the course of a week (it can take weeks to digest and can basically compact in your settle in your bowels--the average person carries up to 18lbs of compact waste in their colon!) or not eating anything white (rice, bread, flour, sugar) for a few days at a time can really make a difference, especially once you see your body respond to what you are doing. Drink 3-4 qts of water a day and it might just surprise you.

With that, I promise to never speak of this again! Good luck and take care of yourself. 

That's funny I'm 5'8", 150 and I don't think I look like a malnourished street urchin. I think I look pretty healthy... I exercise daily.

[dark_lord]

Man that's rough. I'm willing to bet that one of those meds you take is for depression, as I'm a little sad for you myself for the fact that your life is 99% occupied. The business (as a former restaurant owner, I get it) can be a huge burden at times, the kids, taking care of your family, then having to come home and burn off a couple hours of pent up pooch energy...[dang], I'm tired!

BMI=BS for sure. I'm far from an elite athlete, but my bmi says I am in the obese range too, that I am 29 lbs overweight. Also, it's not just the system that's flawed with BMI, it's the scale (no pun intended) that they use. They say a 30 yr old man who is my height 5'7" ideal body weight is 150lbs. Seriously? I'd look like a malnourished street urchin if I was that weight!

I'm sure you weren't looking for advice with this post, but keep walking the dogs and keep working hard. Anything you do is better than nothing at all, and you don't have to diet, just alter your diet from time to time. A simple thing like eating less red meat over the course of a week (it can take weeks to digest and can basically compact in your settle in your bowels--the average person carries up to 18lbs of compact waste in their colon!) or not eating anything white (rice, bread, flour, sugar) for a few days at a time can really make a difference, especially once you see your body respond to what you are doing. Drink 3-4 qts of water a day and it might just surprise you.

With that, I promise to never speak of this again! Good luck and take care of yourself. 

That's funny I'm 5'8", 150 and I don't think I look like a malnourished street urchin. I think I look pretty healthy... I exercise daily.

ur spot on.....u look healthy bc you work at maintaining a healthy lifestyle/weight.  too many people assume thin/lean people just have a high metabolism, rather than recognize they put in work and sacrifice certain things in order to have a healthy physique.

tp for u matt....u malnourished street urchin

[cornbreadsmart]

     In my opinion, doctors are not very knowlegeable about things like this. The bmi thing just cracks me up. I'm gonna have to jump on th wi system for a good laugh. I recently gained 4 pounds. I'm 6 feet even and now 184. I'm probably overweight. ha.
     I will admit though that i was overweight  for a long time and definitely did not consider myself to be. 10 pounds overweight is overweight. If you have fat on ya that is not needed then your slightly overweight. No big deal but facts are facts.
    In my twenties I walked out of my doctor's office when he basically accused me of using steroids. I laughed and asked why. He actually said it was impossible to put that amount of muscle weight on in a certain amount of time. I asked if he was being serious because I would never do that. He started trying to lecture me. I told him I didnt do it again and he interrupted me and continued his little lecture. I walked out and told the person at the desk what he accused me of and made sure it was loud enough for everyone in the office to hear.

[Neurotic Guy]

Man that's rough. I'm willing to bet that one of those meds you take is for depression, as I'm a little sad for you myself for the fact that your life is 99% occupied. The business (as a former restaurant owner, I get it) can be a huge burden at times, the kids, taking care of your family, then having to come home and burn off a couple hours of pent up pooch energy...[dang], I'm tired!

BMI=BS for sure. I'm far from an elite athlete, but my bmi says I am in the obese range too, that I am 29 lbs overweight. Also, it's not just the system that's flawed with BMI, it's the scale (no pun intended) that they use. They say a 30 yr old man who is my height 5'7" ideal body weight is 150lbs. Seriously? I'd look like a malnourished street urchin if I was that weight!

I'm sure you weren't looking for advice with this post, but keep walking the dogs and keep working hard. Anything you do is better than nothing at all, and you don't have to diet, just alter your diet from time to time. A simple thing like eating less red meat over the course of a week (it can take weeks to digest and can basically compact in your settle in your bowels--the average person carries up to 18lbs of compact waste in their colon!) or not eating anything white (rice, bread, flour, sugar) for a few days at a time can really make a difference, especially once you see your body respond to what you are doing. Drink 3-4 qts of water a day and it might just surprise you.

With that, I promise to never speak of this again! Good luck and take care of yourself. 

That's funny I'm 5'8", 150 and I don't think I look like a malnourished street urchin. I think I look pretty healthy... I exercise daily.

ur spot on.....u look healthy bc you work at maintaining a healthy lifestyle/weight.  too many people assume thin/lean people just have a high metabolism, rather than recognize they put in work and sacrifice certain things in order to have a healthy physique.

tp for u matt....u malnourished street urchin

Well, I wouldn't discount the high metabolism thing either.  I am 52 and 5'7" and my 'urchin-like' frame carries about 145 pounds.  I do exercise -- but not rigorosuly (save a once a week old person B-ball game in which I do run hard). I have always weighed around 145 (give or take 5) regardless of my diet.  I eat as many calories as it takes to feel stuffed and I am only peripherally conscious of eating healthy.  It's all about metabolism/genetics for me -- absolutely no credit for work and sacrifice deserved.

[Q_FBE]

I guess the Q's training camp regimen is appropriate here:

1) No Dunkin Donuts.
2) No Denny's SuperBirds.
3) No Fatione Burgers.
4) Walk 3.3 miles a day.
5) Build up to 33 miles a week walking (running).
6) Check Blood Pressure
7) Do not eat after 7 pm.
Eat High Protein Breakfasts and Lunches.
9) Eat light dinner.
10) Work Sudoku Puzzles (IF you don't know how - then Message Me). 
11) Walk while phoning into CSL on Sunday Nights.
12) Do Johnny Most imitations.
13) Buy a Joey Crawford punching bag.
14) Buy a Kobe Bryant Statue - lift it over your head and smash it on the ground.

Any other Q training camp ideas - spell them out now. And quit whining like a Baby about the BMI which is seriously overrated. With all due respect to Dr. Bahku, these kid doctors don't know _______ from _________. 

[fairweatherfan]

Reviving a dead thread, but if anyone is interested in an alternative to BMI, there is a good set of calculators here:

http://home.fuse.net/clymer/bmi/

Waist-to-height ratio in particular is becoming widely used in place of BMI, as it gets around the muscularity issues the BMI has and focuses on abdominal fat.