In hindsight only: Would we have been better off trading for Gasol?

[greg683x]

I think if we would have gotten Gasol, we would have been a great team for a longer time, but I also think with Gasol, we dont win a championship at all.

Gasol is the player he is right now bc Kevin Garnett ate him alive in the 2008 Finals.  If he comes to the Celtics and never has that run in with KG, he's a much different player IMO.

I don't think that's necessarily true.  Consider this: In the scenario where we have a big man rotation of Gasol, Al and Perk, even if LA had traded for KG they'd have had to include Bynum and quite probably two of Odom, Ariza or Turiaf and some other sweetener.  LA with Kobe and KG but not much else most likely doesn't get out of the Western conference in 08 or any other year while a C's team of Rondo, PP, Gasol, Al, Perk and possibly Ray (if not Ray then a deeper team with Delonte, Gomes and Wally with Powe, TA and hopefully BBD-->hoping Danny would have picked him instead of Pruitt if he knew he wasn't getting the 35th pick in the Ray trade) could certainly have done some real damage in the East and prbbably have made the finals each year so far and would reasonably be considered contenders for the championship. 

Seriously, who'd have the front line to contend with Gasol and Al down low with Rondo at point and West/Wally and PP from outside?  C's would have a really deep team with or without Ray's trade occurring if they had gotten Gasol and kept Al in the process.

Well the problem with playing around with 'What If' scenarios is that when one move gets re-done, it potentially changes other deals that went down.  You brought up Delonte West and Wally Szcerbiak, and the front line that we would have.  Well, What if Cleveland or Detroit traded for Ray Allen?  Ray would have been traded somewhere, Seattle wanted to unload him for the youth movement.  Cleveland gave us the most trouble out of all the teams we played in the playoffs in 2008.  Their frontline of Illgauskas, Ben Wallace, Joe Smith and Varejao doesnt match up too horribly against the one we'd have.  Not to mention you have Ray Allen playing next to Lebron James.  As great offensively as our team would be with Gasol and Al Jefferson that year, they would be just as bad defensively.

Whos to say we dont make it past Cleveland?

[slamtheking]

I think if we would have gotten Gasol, we would have been a great team for a longer time, but I also think with Gasol, we dont win a championship at all.

Gasol is the player he is right now bc Kevin Garnett ate him alive in the 2008 Finals.  If he comes to the Celtics and never has that run in with KG, he's a much different player IMO.

I don't think that's necessarily true.  Consider this: In the scenario where we have a big man rotation of Gasol, Al and Perk, even if LA had traded for KG they'd have had to include Bynum and quite probably two of Odom, Ariza or Turiaf and some other sweetener.  LA with Kobe and KG but not much else most likely doesn't get out of the Western conference in 08 or any other year while a C's team of Rondo, PP, Gasol, Al, Perk and possibly Ray (if not Ray then a deeper team with Delonte, Gomes and Wally with Powe, TA and hopefully BBD-->hoping Danny would have picked him instead of Pruitt if he knew he wasn't getting the 35th pick in the Ray trade) could certainly have done some real damage in the East and prbbably have made the finals each year so far and would reasonably be considered contenders for the championship. 

Seriously, who'd have the front line to contend with Gasol and Al down low with Rondo at point and West/Wally and PP from outside?  C's would have a really deep team with or without Ray's trade occurring if they had gotten Gasol and kept Al in the process.

Well the problem with playing around with 'What If' scenarios is that when one move gets re-done, it potentially changes other deals that went down.  You brought up Delonte West and Wally Szcerbiak, and the front line that we would have.  Well, What if Cleveland or Detroit traded for Ray Allen?  Ray would have been traded somewhere, Seattle wanted to unload him for the youth movement.  Cleveland gave us the most trouble out of all the teams we played in the playoffs in 2008.  Their frontline of Illgauskas, Ben Wallace, Joe Smith and Varejao doesnt match up too horribly against the one we'd have.  Not to mention you have Ray Allen playing next to Lebron James.  As great offensively as our team would be with Gasol and Al Jefferson that year, they would be just as bad defensively.

Whos to say we dont make it past Cleveland?

It's very possible Ray would have been moved to another team that year but would it have been Cle?  I'm not so sure it would have been.  Who did Cle have that would have been worth what we offered?   Wally was a decent shooter but on a bad contract (needed for salary purposes), Delonte was a decent combo guard and the #5 pick in a loaded draft.  Cle didn't have that kind of bargaining chips to get Ray.

I don't disagree that changing events wouldn't have caused other different events for other teams but just based on what the C's would have had, they would have been just as much of a contender as the other top teams that year and would still be looking strong for the past couple of years as well as a few more going forward with Pau, Al, Perk, Rondo (and possibly West, Gomes, Powe, TA, BBD to come off the bench). 

[greg683x]

I think if we would have gotten Gasol, we would have been a great team for a longer time, but I also think with Gasol, we dont win a championship at all.

Gasol is the player he is right now bc Kevin Garnett ate him alive in the 2008 Finals.  If he comes to the Celtics and never has that run in with KG, he's a much different player IMO.

I don't think that's necessarily true.  Consider this: In the scenario where we have a big man rotation of Gasol, Al and Perk, even if LA had traded for KG they'd have had to include Bynum and quite probably two of Odom, Ariza or Turiaf and some other sweetener.  LA with Kobe and KG but not much else most likely doesn't get out of the Western conference in 08 or any other year while a C's team of Rondo, PP, Gasol, Al, Perk and possibly Ray (if not Ray then a deeper team with Delonte, Gomes and Wally with Powe, TA and hopefully BBD-->hoping Danny would have picked him instead of Pruitt if he knew he wasn't getting the 35th pick in the Ray trade) could certainly have done some real damage in the East and prbbably have made the finals each year so far and would reasonably be considered contenders for the championship. 

Seriously, who'd have the front line to contend with Gasol and Al down low with Rondo at point and West/Wally and PP from outside?  C's would have a really deep team with or without Ray's trade occurring if they had gotten Gasol and kept Al in the process.

Well the problem with playing around with 'What If' scenarios is that when one move gets re-done, it potentially changes other deals that went down.  You brought up Delonte West and Wally Szcerbiak, and the front line that we would have.  Well, What if Cleveland or Detroit traded for Ray Allen?  Ray would have been traded somewhere, Seattle wanted to unload him for the youth movement.  Cleveland gave us the most trouble out of all the teams we played in the playoffs in 2008.  Their frontline of Illgauskas, Ben Wallace, Joe Smith and Varejao doesnt match up too horribly against the one we'd have.  Not to mention you have Ray Allen playing next to Lebron James.  As great offensively as our team would be with Gasol and Al Jefferson that year, they would be just as bad defensively.

Whos to say we dont make it past Cleveland?

It's very possible Ray would have been moved to another team that year but would it have been Cle?  I'm not so sure it would have been.  Who did Cle have that would have been worth what we offered?   Wally was a decent shooter but on a bad contract (needed for salary purposes), Delonte was a decent combo guard and the #5 pick in a loaded draft.  Cle didn't have that kind of bargaining chips to get Ray.

I don't disagree that changing events wouldn't have caused other different events for other teams but just based on what the C's would have had, they would have been just as much of a contender as the other top teams that year and would still be looking strong for the past couple of years as well as a few more going forward with Pau, Al, Perk, Rondo (and possibly West, Gomes, Powe, TA, BBD to come off the bench). 

I think Cleveland would have been a frontrunner to land Ray if he had made it past the draft, which I think he would have, not many teams trying to contend would have a had a high draft pick theyre willing to throw away on an aging shooter, who at the time, was out pretty much the whole previous year with ankle problems.  Cleveland had expirings to offer for Ray, so did other teams, but I just think they would have made a big push to land him

You very well may be right, our team would have looked fantastic on paper, but there have been plenty of teams throughout the years that have had plenty of offensive fire power but no defensive toughness and team chemistry to back it up.  Just ask the Dallas Mavericks.

[2short]

I initially thought we could get gasol and keep al jefferson.  Who knew memphis would give him up so cheap though?  I really like gasol (either one) but kg changed more than can be counted with stats.  PP is the captain but KG is a leader of note.  Honestly if we were healthy the past 2 years we would have 3 CHAMPIONSHIPS.  KG arriving made PP, Perk, Davis, Ray and Rondo better players.  Everyone benefits from his drive. 

[GreenFaith1819]

I think if we would have gotten Gasol, we would have been a great team for a longer time, but I also think with Gasol, we dont win a championship at all.

Gasol is the player he is right now bc Kevin Garnett ate him alive in the 2008 Finals.  If he comes to the Celtics and never has that run in with KG, he's a much different player IMO.

Not to mention Gasol cant light a fire under peoples butts defensively like KG can, and I also dont think that we come together as a team like we did with KG either.  With KG here, I think Pierce and Allen, namely Pierce, felt they had to keep up with KG's work ethic for their own ego's and also to set an example for everyone else.  I dont see that happening with Gasol here.

Greg's line of thought is pretty much mine.

I prefer KG - even with his knee injury, which is now in the past. We will be getting the playoff version KG next year during the regular season.

KG brought a Defensive Mindset to this team. As nice a player as Gasol is, he doesn't do that. Even now.

And I'm just not so sure if Gasol is the real deal, either - he was made to look great during the first two games in LA - where he had (to me) some officiating help.

When we got Gasol's butt to Boston for games 3-5, KG looked (and played) clearly better than him, even at 34 yrs old to Gasol's what 29?

To me, Gasol just didn't get as much Reffereeing help in those games 3-5.

And KG nearly played Gasol to a standstill in Game 7.

I myself wouldn't want a 7 foot supposed anchor of our team disappearing on the road like that - games 3-5.

Sure - KG has not put up huge number for us during the playoffs - but you know he is there. Every single team we played in our Playoff Run had to account for Kevin Garnett.

Gasol, while being a Top 3 PF, just doesn't bring the intangibles for me.

Another poster that comes around from time to time, "drza44" could probably bring up a lot more reasons to explain why Kevin Garnett is so Important to The Boston Celtics.

Vice Gasol.

[nickagneta]

First things first, I loved the KG trade, and wouldn't change a thing.  The trade has delivered us three seasons of outstanding basketball, and a title.  It's hard to ask for much more than that.

That said, for those of you who remember the summer of 2008, there seemed to be two big men who were available to the Celtics:  KG and Pau Gasol.  There was some speculation / rumor that we could have gotten Pau without giving up Al Jefferson; the trade would have been something like Theo + Gerald + Gomes + #1.

In hindsight only, would you do that trade instead of the KG deal?  With KG's injury, it appears that Pau has a lot more left on his tires than KG does.  In addition, we'd have another elite offensive big man on the roster.  Inversely, our defense would be worse, and with our payroll structure, it's unlikely that we'd be able to be players in free agency (or that we'd have been able to sign some of the free agents we've been able to.)

The other thing to keep in mind is that if Pau is on the Celtics, that means he's not on the Lakers.  Of course, that could have led to LA trading for KG, as well (although Minnesota didn't seem enamored by Bynum at the time.)

Even in hindsight, I don't think I'd reverse things.  It's been too much fun with the "big three", and a bird in the hand is worth two in the bush, as they say.  However, in an alternate universe somewhere, I wouldn't be shocked if the 2010 NBA champion Boston Celtics are hoisting a trophy with Pau Gasol as their playoff MVP.

Not that it matters much but which number one pick are we discussing? If it was the pick we traded for Ray Allen then, no way because then we could not get Ray. If it was the Minnesota pick we traded back to Minnesota or the 2009 #1 that we traded to Minnesota then I would have to think about it more.

If it was the protected Minnesota #1 pick then probably because then we would still have had a first rounder in 2009 which could have become Wayne Ellington, DaJuan Blair, Chase Buddinger, Sam Young or Jonas Jerebko. I mean, as long as we are going to Monday morning quarterback a trade that resulted in a World Championship, two other playoff trips including a 7 game Finals appearance and some 200+ total wins, let's really Monday morning quarterback it.

In all honesty, I wouldn't change a thing. I love the way the last three years has worked out and I am not sure Gasol would have changed the defensive landscape and every day attitude and intensity that KG did so I can't be sure he would have produced a title.

Besides, if we traded for Gasol doesn't that mean that KG might have ended up a Laker as McHale had to trade him to someone??

[PosImpos]

If they got Pau and kept Big Al, they don't win in '08 but they contend for 3-4 years after that and win at least 1 title - probably more than that.

[Tr1boy]

I wanted gasol on our team when he was available. He just lost his drive to play well on a lowly grizzlies team

If we had him or if any decent team had him they be good

He is probably the best if not top three pf in the league right now

Great competitor. Didn't like him when we played against him but objectively he is a good players and lakers were lucky to get him

[Reyquila]

Gasol's got 2 rings and counting; KG has one ring and thats it. I rather have KG. Gasol is a weakling.