Rotations and matchups

[CoachBo]

Tony will play. A bunch.

But he's an offensive liability, and when you've got him and Perk on the floor together you're playing 3 on 5 offensively. That's a loss looking for a place to happen.

Ray gets the first spot. There just isn't a shred of doubt about it.

[Meadowlark_Scal]

i really don't care who starts, all i say is TA is our best defender on him, but you can bet, phil is working on adjustments for kobe,,,,,Ray went 0-13, due to his covering kobe, it happened in other series also....no, i can't prove that, but i can guarrantee, a shooter needs 100% of all he has to be effective, that type of D, him on kobe....it is the wrong answer...do you think ray should be on kobe...? He is not 25 you know...kobe is what...28, ray 34-35....Nick, you know how much diff that is......

[CoachBo]

Great shooters go through streaks. I think you're overreacting to the misses and overanalyzing why.

The best way to slow down Kobe is to show him different defenders throughout the game.

And frankly, Kobe won't beat us by himself if we do the things we need to do to win games - move the basketball, rebound, defend.

[Celtics18]

Reality check. The bench has yet to show that they can dominate in every game. Let's not get carried away by one great performance.

TA, Nate, Ray, Baby, Sheed -- did you notice, 4 of the 5 can shoot from outside? TA is the only non-shooter.

Rondo, TA, Pierce, KG, Perk -- only 2 of 5 can shoot from outside. And only 1 can shoot from 3.

TA is much better off playing with Nate and Sheed than with Rondo and Perk.

 How can you say that only 2 of the 5 starters are perimeter shooters and only 1 can shoot from three?  Are you saying that KG can't hit jump shots or that Pierce can't shoot from beyond the arc?  That's just ridiculous.

You can certainly play TA with Rondo, but you're partially right.  Having 'Sheed in the game with Tony and either of the two perimeter starters is needed.  You've got to find ways to have shooters on the floor when TA's in there.

Look at the lineups I posted. I have posted the lineup we had during our fourth quarter run and the potential starting lineup with TA, not what you are attributing to me.

For the bench lineup, you could also switch Pierce for one of them for a few minutes and still have plenty of perimeter shooting.

My apologies.  I completely misread your post.

[Meadowlark_Scal]

everyone has a streak...but great teams adjust to the known scorers...Ray is more than a streak shooter...covering kobe is no small task, probably the hardest guy to cover in the league, with his shooting, drives, and the ref calls, real or not..a tired ray, or a ray in foul trouble does our team no good.

 It isn't kobe beating us by himself, it is the ball in his hands, and how he draws the D to him, opening his players for easy baskets, he leads that team, and he does it very well, shut kobe down, shut down LA, Frank....!

[nickagneta]

Meadowlark

Just wondering? Who was guarding Kobe in Game 2 when Ray was playing 44 minutes and breaking an NBA record for shooting 8 3's in one Finals game?

Tony only played 12 minutes. Ray played 44.

Kobe only scored 21 and went 8 for 20. Ray drew two of Kobe's five fouls.

It sure seems like a shooter can shoot well and play defense in the same game.

Also Ray is just three years older than Kobe. Kobe will be 32 in August and Ray will be 35 in July. Ray and Kobe are also two of the most finely tuned athletes in the NBA. My guess is Ray will tire from guarding Kobe but as long as Tony gives him some time on Kobe and Pierce does too and Rondo does too, it's not going to effect him the to the extent you want us to believe it will.

Ray's outside shooting woes have been very streaky this year. I think his shooting woes are just a shooter not being in his zone. I don't think it has anything to do with having to guard Kobe.

My thinking is leave the rotation the way it is. Definitely get Tony on Kobe for extended periods. Also, try to get Ray in when Kobe is sitting. And in the fourth quarter do the offense and defense substitutions if it is a close game.

Do that and we will be fine. No major changes are needed, no matter what Phil will be adjusting into. Besides, Doc has already proven he can out coach the great Phil Jackson.

[Meadowlark_Scal]

that isn't much diff thsan what i said.....who was guarding kobe that game...? i am not sure..could be ray.....

[Meadowlark_Scal]

where did all your TP's go nick..?

[LB3533]

Maybe this past regular season was an aberration, but Doc has lost a lot of regular season games going with that bench lineup to start the 4th quarter.

That's basically how we gave 2nd half leads away.

If it wasn't a poor 3rd quarter by our starters it was poor 4th quarter starts with our bench that cost us our leads.

I remember, vividly, a number of posters and fans trashing Doc's 4th quarter lineups/rotations this past regular season.

[nickagneta]

where did all your TP's go nick..?

I donated them to a noble cause.

[nickagneta]

Maybe this past regular season was an aberration, but Doc has lost a lot of regular season games going with that bench lineup to start the 4th quarter.

That's basically how we gave 2nd half leads away.

If it wasn't a poor 3rd quarter by our starters it was poor 4th quarter starts with our bench that cost us our leads.

I remember, vividly, a number of posters and fans trashing Doc's 4th quarter lineups/rotations this past regular season.

Actually, while I do agree the Celtics had some problems at the beginning of 4th quarters, mostly because, as you said, Doc went to some horrible all bench rotations to start the 4th quarters, you are wrong about the 3rd quarter thing.

I don't have the numbers but I did look extensively into this in a thread that was talking about the bad third quarters at some point this year and the Celtics were outscored by their opponents a LOT more than they were in 2007-08 and 2008-09. Their total point differential for 3rd quarters was also significantly lower than the previous two years.

As compared to the two previous years, the Celtics were not very good in third quarters this year and it was noticeable in their overall won-loss record because it was always the third quarter where the Celtics created the separation that led them to victory.

[LB3533]

Maybe this past regular season was an aberration, but Doc has lost a lot of regular season games going with that bench lineup to start the 4th quarter.

That's basically how we gave 2nd half leads away.

If it wasn't a poor 3rd quarter by our starters it was poor 4th quarter starts with our bench that cost us our leads.

I remember, vividly, a number of posters and fans trashing Doc's 4th quarter lineups/rotations this past regular season.

Actually, while I do agree the Celtics had some problems at the beginning of 4th quarters, mostly because, as you said, Doc went to some horrible all bench rotations to start the 4th quarters, you are wrong about the 3rd quarter thing.

I don't have the numbers but I did look extensively into this in a thread that was talking about the bad third quarters at some point this year and the Celtics were outscored by their opponents a LOT more than they were in 2007-08 and 2008-09. Their total point differential for 3rd quarters was also significantly lower than the previous two years.

As compared to the two previous years, the Celtics were not very good in third quarters this year and it was noticeable in their overall won-loss record because it was always the third quarter where the Celtics created the separation that led them to victory.

Ya, I meant both were problematic, poor 3rd quarters and poor 4th quarter starts.

We used to pwn the 3rd quarter, gave our Big 3 chance to rest.

This past season, not only were our starters not able to rest in the 4th quarter, they played hard 4th quarter minutes that didn't usually translate into wins even. (Almost a double shame).

I also remember on multiple games where our Starters came out with horrible 1st quarters and our bench was able to either get us back into the game or was able to get the lead and extend it.

It was baffling to me how on most instances our Starters were not able to pick up our bench in those 4th Quarters and get us some clutch wins.