Pierce v. Artest

[Mr October]

Laker fan here. How come no one has addressed Peirce's performance vs Artest THIS YEAR? I see stats from years ago but woudn't this year's stats be more indicitive of what we might see? Pierce is phenomenal but he's not the guy he was years ago. Neither is Ron. I just think that this year's stats are relevant yet no one is bringing them up.

Game 1 in Boston : 15 pts, 36%FG, 3 rbs, 1assist, 5 fouls, 4 TOs,
Game 2 in LA: 11pts, 44%FG, 6 rbs, 4 assists, 2 fouls, 1 TO

He played better in game 2 but he didnt have a big game. Was he hurt for either of these games?

Just sayin.

The Lakers played the Celtics when the Celtics we're going through the bad part of their schedule. Garnett and Pierce were dealing with injuries. And one of the great aspects of this Celtics team, is that everyone is willing to sacrifice their game for the sake of exploiting matchups and the hot hand.

There is no doubt that Ron is an excellent defender, but Pierce didn't start hitting his stride until around March.

Also this Laker team looks about the same as the regular season Lakers. the Celtics are way better then they were in the regular season.

So, yeah, Artest is very good on defense. But he is not a Pierce stopper.

[Roy Hobbs]

Laker fan here. How come no one has addressed Peirce's performance vs Artest THIS YEAR? I see stats from years ago but woudn't this year's stats be more indicitive of what we might see? Pierce is phenomenal but he's not the guy he was years ago. Neither is Ron. I just think that this year's stats are relevant yet no one is bringing them up.

Game 1 in Boston : 15 pts, 36%FG, 3 rbs, 1assist, 5 fouls, 4 TOs,
Game 2 in LA: 11pts, 44%FG, 6 rbs, 4 assists, 2 fouls, 1 TO

He played better in game 2 but he didnt have a big game. Was he hurt for either of these games?

Just sayin.

Pierce wasn't necessarily healthy in the regular season, and the entire team is playing at another level now.  It's pretty clear if you look at his game log that Pierce wasn't the same player in late January / February as he was the rest of the season.  Therefore, it probably makes sense to look at his entire body of work against Artest, rather than two games.

I mean, 11.7 points per game on 36% shooting in the month of February isn't very Paul Pierce-like.  In hindsight, I'm surprised that he only missed five games.

[BudweiserCeltic]

Laker fan here. How come no one has addressed Peirce's performance vs Artest THIS YEAR? I see stats from years ago but woudn't this year's stats be more indicitive of what we might see? Pierce is phenomenal but he's not the guy he was years ago. Neither is Ron. I just think that this year's stats are relevant yet no one is bringing them up.

Game 1 in Boston : 15 pts, 36%FG, 3 rbs, 1assist, 5 fouls, 4 TOs,
Game 2 in LA: 11pts, 44%FG, 6 rbs, 4 assists, 2 fouls, 1 TO

He played better in game 2 but he didnt have a big game. Was he hurt for either of these games?

Just sayin.

It has been addressed. Let's look at Exhibit A, Vince Carter. Had a good year all told defending Pierce, where is he now? Crying like Vujacic as far as I can tell.

Artest is a good defender on Pierce, but history hasn't shown him to be a complete lockdown on Pierce. He'll have his games, but I don't think he'll stop Pierce overall like say LeBron did. Pierce will be effective.

[xmuscularghandix]

Posted these in another thread. Figured they belong here as well..

Every game in PP's career vs Ron Artest.

Nov. 13 1999 (Bulls) 19pts, 6reb, 3ast
Jan. 8, 2000 (Bulls) 20pts, 5reb, 3ast
Dec. 13, 2000 (Bulls) 9pts, 4reb, 3ast
Mar. 25, 2001 (Bulls) 36pts, 6reb, 4ast
Mar. 29, 2001 (Bulls) 24pts, 7reb, 1ast
Apr. 2, 2002 (Pacers) 29pts, 5reb, 3ast
Jan. 17, 2003 (Pacers) 31pts, 6reb, 4ast
Mar. 19, 2003 (Pacers) 14pts, 4reb, 3ast
Apr. 19, 2003 (Pacers Playoffs) 40pts, 11reb, 6ast
Apr. 21, 2003 (Pacers Playoffs) 14pts, 9reb, 6ast
Apr. 24, 2003 (Pacers Playoffs) 21pts, 12reb, 5ast
Apr. 27, 2003 (Pacers Playoffs) 37pts, 10reb, 7ast
Apr. 29, 2003 (Pacers Playoffs) 16pts, 5reb, 8ast
May. 1, 2003 (Pacers Playoffs) 27pts, 8reb, 4ast
Nov. 11, 2003 (Pacers) 19pts, 6reb, 9ast
Jan. 2, 2004 (Pacers) 18pts, 9reb, 9ast
Jan. 31, 2004 (Pacers) 24pts, 6reb, 3ast
Mar. 12, 2004 (Pacers) 21pts, 5reb, 3ast
Apr. 17, 2004 (Pacers Playoffs) 20pts, 10reb, 4ast
Apr. 23, 2004 (Pacers Playoffs) 9pts, 7reb, 4ast
Apr. 25, 2004 (Pacers Playoffs) 27pts, 11reb, 1ast
Nov. 5, 2004 (Pacers) 15pts, 4reb, 7ast
Jan. 27, 2006 (Kings) 18pts, 7reb, 6ast
Feb. 20, 2007 (Kings) 26pts, 6reb, 5ast
Dec. 12, 2007 (Kings) 26pts, 6reb, 4ast
Dec. 26, 2007 (Kings) 16pts, 4reb, 6ast
Nov. 4, 2008 (Rockets) 13pts, 9reb, 4ast
Jan. 7, 2009 (Rockets) 26 pts, 5reb, 6ast
Jan. 31, 2010 (Lakers) 15pts, 3reb, 1ast
Feb. 18, 2010 (Lakers) 11pts, 6reb, 4ast

[NUM5BBK]

Posted these in another thread. Figured they belong here as well..

Every game in PP's career vs Ron Artest.

Nov. 13 1999 (Bulls) 19pts, 6reb, 3ast
Jan. 8, 2000 (Bulls) 20pts, 5reb, 3ast
Dec. 13, 2000 (Bulls) 9pts, 4reb, 3ast
Mar. 25, 2001 (Bulls) 36pts, 6reb, 4ast
Mar. 29, 2001 (Bulls) 24pts, 7reb, 1ast
Apr. 2, 2002 (Pacers) 29pts, 5reb, 3ast
Jan. 17, 2003 (Pacers) 31pts, 6reb, 4ast
Mar. 19, 2003 (Pacers) 14pts, 4reb, 3ast
Apr. 19, 2003 (Pacers Playoffs) 40pts, 11reb, 6ast
Apr. 21, 2003 (Pacers Playoffs) 14pts, 9reb, 6ast
Apr. 24, 2003 (Pacers Playoffs) 21pts, 12reb, 5ast
Apr. 27, 2003 (Pacers Playoffs) 37pts, 10reb, 7ast
Apr. 29, 2003 (Pacers Playoffs) 16pts, 5reb, 8ast
May. 1, 2003 (Pacers Playoffs) 27pts, 8reb, 4ast
Nov. 11, 2003 (Pacers) 19pts, 6reb, 9ast
Jan. 2, 2004 (Pacers) 18pts, 9reb, 9ast
Jan. 31, 2004 (Pacers) 24pts, 6reb, 3ast
Mar. 12, 2004 (Pacers) 21pts, 5reb, 3ast
Apr. 17, 2004 (Pacers Playoffs) 20pts, 10reb, 4ast
Apr. 23, 2004 (Pacers Playoffs) 9pts, 7reb, 4ast
Apr. 25, 2004 (Pacers Playoffs) 27pts, 11reb, 1ast
Nov. 5, 2004 (Pacers) 15pts, 4reb, 7ast
Jan. 27, 2006 (Kings) 18pts, 7reb, 6ast
Feb. 20, 2007 (Kings) 26pts, 6reb, 5ast
Dec. 12, 2007 (Kings) 26pts, 6reb, 4ast
Dec. 26, 2007 (Kings) 16pts, 4reb, 6ast
Nov. 4, 2008 (Rockets) 13pts, 9reb, 4ast
Jan. 7, 2009 (Rockets) 26 pts, 5reb, 6ast
Jan. 31, 2010 (Lakers) 15pts, 3reb, 1ast
Feb. 18, 2010 (Lakers) 11pts, 6reb, 4ast

Pretty impressive. Should be a fun game tonight.

[Carhole]

Laker fan here. How come no one has addressed Peirce's performance vs Artest THIS YEAR? I see stats from years ago but woudn't this year's stats be more indicitive of what we might see? Pierce is phenomenal but he's not the guy he was years ago. Neither is Ron. I just think that this year's stats are relevant yet no one is bringing them up.

Game 1 in Boston : 15 pts, 36%FG, 3 rbs, 1assist, 5 fouls, 4 TOs,
Game 2 in LA: 11pts, 44%FG, 6 rbs, 4 assists, 2 fouls, 1 TO

He played better in game 2 but he didnt have a big game. Was he hurt for either of these games?

Just sayin.

PP was 4 for 6 in the first half of game in LA then he sprained his hand running through a screen and didnt hit a shot the rest of the game. look at his shooting numbers for the next two games they are even worse. He could have easily dropped 22 had he not gotten hurt and been right on average....Just sayin, you can't really give Ron credit for an injury derailed night

[colincb]

Laker fan here. How come no one has addressed Peirce's performance vs Artest THIS YEAR? I see stats from years ago but woudn't this year's stats be more indicitive of what we might see? Pierce is phenomenal but he's not the guy he was years ago. Neither is Ron. I just think that this year's stats are relevant yet no one is bringing them up.

Game 1 in Boston : 15 pts, 36%FG, 3 rbs, 1assist, 5 fouls, 4 TOs,
Game 2 in LA: 11pts, 44%FG, 6 rbs, 4 assists, 2 fouls, 1 TO

He played better in game 2 but he didnt have a big game. Was he hurt for either of these games?

Just sayin.

Pierce was hurt for both games with his knee and he also hurt his thumb during the second game which caused him to miss several games soon thereafter. I watched both games the last 2 days and he was definitely having problems getting any lift.

Overall, using data from Basketball-Reference.com for their career regular season match-ups, their performance has led to a slight edge for Pierce on an efficiency ratio per 40 minutes basis (20.0 vs 18.2) with PP outscoring RA and having slight edges in rebounds and assists, but Artest winning categories like steals, blocks and fewer turnovers pretty handily to largely offset Pierce's offensive production. Pierce has been able to play more minutes and thus has won the raw efficiency ratios by a bigger margin which is a plus. Throwing out the 2 games this year benefits PP slightly.

During 9 playoff games, however, Pierce has a clear advantage over RA ( 21.6 vs 17.8 ) in per 40 minutes efficiency scores and ( 23.1 vs 17.4 ) in raw efficiency scores. In other words, Pierce has been able to elevate his performance vs Artest in big games.

Over the last 3 seasons, Artest has held Pierce below his career matchup averages, but Pierce has held Artest's numbers down even more, so beware of some of the stories out there that I've seen saying how Artest has shutdown Pierce. Over the last 3 seasons (6 games) matching up these 2, Artest has had 4 games with efficiency ratios per 40 of under 10 which is poor for a starter, and Pierce has had none despite his 2 subpar games this year vs Artest. That's somewhat like KG vs Lewis in this year's ORL playoff series where KG put up subpar numbers, but Lewis was invisible.

In summary, these 2 players have been matched up 30 times against each other and Pierce has generally outplayed Artest including the most recent past. PP isn't going to blow Artest away, but based on history, Pierce has the edge and Pierce has generally played bigger in big games (and his highest career scoring average is vs the Lakers).





- For those who are unaware of the NBA's efficiency ratio, It's the sum of pretty much every easily measurable BB statistic and is as good as anything to measure BB performance though it's not without its flaws. Its the sum of points+rebounds+assists+steals+blocks-turnovers-missed fgs-missed fts. It has certain biases, most especially in that undervalues defense. However, in this analysis you have 2 players who are pretty much playing against each other on both ends of the court and so this weakness is overcome somewhat.

- The raw statistics for regular season matchups can be found here

http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/h2h_finder.cgi

I had to load this into a spreadsheet and calculate the efficiency scores and had to pull the playoff data from the box scores for the 9 playoff matchups.

[Jon]

Laker fan here. How come no one has addressed Peirce's performance vs Artest THIS YEAR? I see stats from years ago but woudn't this year's stats be more indicitive of what we might see? Pierce is phenomenal but he's not the guy he was years ago. Neither is Ron. I just think that this year's stats are relevant yet no one is bringing them up.

Game 1 in Boston : 15 pts, 36%FG, 3 rbs, 1assist, 5 fouls, 4 TOs,
Game 2 in LA: 11pts, 44%FG, 6 rbs, 4 assists, 2 fouls, 1 TO

He played better in game 2 but he didnt have a big game. Was he hurt for either of these games?

Just sayin.

Pierce wasn't necessarily healthy in the regular season, and the entire team is playing at another level now.  It's pretty clear if you look at his game log that Pierce wasn't the same player in late January / February as he was the rest of the season.  Therefore, it probably makes sense to look at his entire body of work against Artest, rather than two games.

I mean, 11.7 points per game on 36% shooting in the month of February isn't very Paul Pierce-like.  In hindsight, I'm surprised that he only missed five games.

And this is exactly it.  I'd argue Pierce didn't really, really get his old bounce back in his step until last series.  I think his diminished play due to injuries in the regular season is getting really overexaggerated here in the microscope of the media.  While I don't expect him to go off for 30 every night, I wouldn't be surprised to see him average 20 a game.