How Good is Rondo?

[Fafnir]

Ask Perk about Dwight.

Again, not to sound negative here, but Perk's (and Rondo's) Celtics lost to Dwight's Magic last year. Hopefully, this year will be a different story, but I stand by my original statement. A talented 7 footer is more valuable than a talented PG with few exceptions. e.g. Magic Johnson was an exception because he was 6'9".

  Yes, but what's the point of that comment? A superstar c is clearly better to have than a superstar pg, but we aren't getting a young superstar c any time soon. So what's the point of making that observation?

As an aside I do worry that Dwight Howard will neutralize enough of Rondo's penetration.

Paul in particular, as well as others on the team, will need to play better if we advance to the ECF. Rondo won't be able to shred the Magic like he has the Cavs.

This is all looking ahead, I think the Celtics/Cavs will go seven. I'm not sure who will win...

[Fafnir]

I can't figure out why Al Horford couldn't keep Dwight under control. He appears to be as big as Dwight.

Horford isn't strong enough to push Dwight out like Perkins is. Horford also cannot get his shot off against Dwight's length and leaping ability.

Howard also can run longer and faster than Horford in transition, all of this adds up to dominance on the part of Howard.

[nickagneta]

I can't figure out why Al Horford couldn't keep Dwight under control. He appears to be as big as Dwight.

Horford isn't strong enough to push Dwight out like Perkins is. Horford also cannot get his shot off against Dwight's length and leaping ability.

Howard also can run longer and faster than Horford in transition, all of this adds up to dominance on the part of Howard.

I agree. I always thought Horford more of a power forward than a center. he just doesn't have the wingspan or lower body strength to overcome his lack of height for a center. Perk at 6'10" can be a true center because he has incredible lower body strength. Horford doesn't.

[Boris Badenov]

To me it is very hard to evaluate him.

Even this year, he is playing with three guys who are arguably a top 5 interior/team defender (KG), a top 5 outside shooter (Ray), and a top 5 clutch end-of-game scorer (PP). Rondo benefits generally from playing with those guys, but more important, each of them provides a critical skill that Rondo hasn't shown yet (except perhaps defense). He's in the ideal situation given his game. What if he were on the Bulls? Or the Heat, or maybe even the Jazz?

To put him in the upper echelon of NBA players seems premature. I can think of a lot of other players who would immediately become championship contenders or even favorites if you put them on a squad with our Big Three (plus our supporting cast).

  This isn't 2008. It's as much the case that the Big Three benefit from playing with Rondo than the other way around. Switch the average pg (or even some above average pgs) for Rondo, against Cleveland and we'd be down 3-1 if we were lucky enough to avoid a sweep.

I thought we were engaging in a different thought experiment: put Wade, or Carmelo, or Bosh, or CP3, or DWill, or Howard, or Nowitzki on this current team in place of Rondo and ask whether the Celtics would be better or worse.

We all agree that he's better than average.

[ManUp]

Ask Perk about Dwight.

Again, not to sound negative here, but Perk's (and Rondo's) Celtics lost to Dwight's Magic last year. Hopefully, this year will be a different story, but I stand by my original statement. A talented 7 footer is more valuable than a talented PG with few exceptions. e.g. Magic Johnson was an exception because he was 6'9".

  Yes, but what's the point of that comment? A superstar c is clearly better to have than a superstar pg, but we aren't getting a young superstar c any time soon. So what's the point of making that observation?

As an aside I do worry that Dwight Howard will neutralize enough of Rondo's penetration.

Paul in particular, as well as others on the team, will need to play better if we advance to the ECF. Rondo won't be able to shred the Magic like he has the Cavs.

This is all looking ahead, I think the Celtics/Cavs will go seven. I'm not sure who will win...

Major TP, I've been thinking about this since the end of game 4. Dwight Howard is almost the perfect counter for Rondo. His ability to control the paint is definitely going to throw Rondo off his game. If the Magic cover shooters and Rondo is forced to drive the ball and score he's not going find a slow unathletic Center he can easily get around. Howard can reach just about any floater or layup Rondo puts up. Rondo was blamed for being inconsistent and not bringing enough effort last year, but the truth is that Howard's presence in the paint threw him off, big time. If we can get by Cleveland the Magic are a major threat. Unless Pierce wakes up we aren't winning that series.

[BballTim]

Ask Perk about Dwight.

Again, not to sound negative here, but Perk's (and Rondo's) Celtics lost to Dwight's Magic last year. Hopefully, this year will be a different story, but I stand by my original statement. A talented 7 footer is more valuable than a talented PG with few exceptions. e.g. Magic Johnson was an exception because he was 6'9".

  Yes, but what's the point of that comment? A superstar c is clearly better to have than a superstar pg, but we aren't getting a young superstar c any time soon. So what's the point of making that observation?

As an aside I do worry that Dwight Howard will neutralize enough of Rondo's penetration.

Paul in particular, as well as others on the team, will need to play better if we advance to the ECF. Rondo won't be able to shred the Magic like he has the Cavs.

This is all looking ahead, I think the Celtics/Cavs will go seven. I'm not sure who will win...

Major TP, I've been thinking about this since the end of game 4. Dwight Howard is almost the perfect counter for Rondo. His ability to control the paint is definitely going to throw Rondo off his game. If the Magic cover shooters and Rondo is forced to drive the ball and score he's not going find a slow unathletic Center he can easily get around. Howard can reach just about any floater or layup Rondo puts up. Rondo was blamed for being inconsistent and not bringing enough effort last year, but the truth is that Howard's presence in the paint threw him off, big time. If we can get by Cleveland the Magic are a major threat. Unless Pierce wakes up we aren't winning that series.

  Last year we were playing Baby instead of KG. Lewis wasn't really covering him so they had both DH and Lewis guarding against Rondo driving. If Lewis has to stay with KG away from the basket and Rondo gets in the paint he shold be able to find Perk if Dwight comes after him.

[BballTim]

To me it is very hard to evaluate him.

Even this year, he is playing with three guys who are arguably a top 5 interior/team defender (KG), a top 5 outside shooter (Ray), and a top 5 clutch end-of-game scorer (PP). Rondo benefits generally from playing with those guys, but more important, each of them provides a critical skill that Rondo hasn't shown yet (except perhaps defense). He's in the ideal situation given his game. What if he were on the Bulls? Or the Heat, or maybe even the Jazz?

To put him in the upper echelon of NBA players seems premature. I can think of a lot of other players who would immediately become championship contenders or even favorites if you put them on a squad with our Big Three (plus our supporting cast).

  This isn't 2008. It's as much the case that the Big Three benefit from playing with Rondo than the other way around. Switch the average pg (or even some above average pgs) for Rondo, against Cleveland and we'd be down 3-1 if we were lucky enough to avoid a sweep.

I thought we were engaging in a different thought experiment: put Wade, or Carmelo, or Bosh, or CP3, or DWill, or Howard, or Nowitzki on this current team in place of Rondo and ask whether the Celtics would be better or worse.

We all agree that he's better than average.

  I just don't agree that, at this time, Ray is a top 5 shooter or Paul is a top 5 clutch scorer.

[Birdbrain]

Ask Perk about Dwight.

Again, not to sound negative here, but Perk's (and Rondo's) Celtics lost to Dwight's Magic last year. Hopefully, this year will be a different story, but I stand by my original statement. A talented 7 footer is more valuable than a talented PG with few exceptions. e.g. Magic Johnson was an exception because he was 6'9".

In this case they would have to be more talented than Howard.  Plus he's 6'10 at best.

[Bahku]

Amazing how he has one huge game and then all these Rondo threads pop up ... not dissing them, I think it's great, but he's had these skills and abilities since high school. The media seems to have a much larger hold on the masses than I thought ... as soon as they start touting someone's praises, the whole atmosphere around that player improves. But we here at CB have been watching this kid for years ... too bad he didn't get all this recognition sooner.

[Boris Badenov]

Amazing how he has one huge game and then all these Rondo threads pop up ... not dissing them, I think it's great, but he's had these skills and abilities since high school. The media seems to have a much larger hold on the masses than I thought ... as soon as they start touting someone's praises, the whole atmosphere around that player improves. But we here at CB have been watching this kid for years ... too bad he didn't get all this recognition sooner.

Just wait until Sheed puts together a good game:

"Danny Ainge, GM of the Year!"
"Sheed - waiting until it counts!"
"Always knew Sheed would step up when it mattered!"

Etc.

[Fafnir]

Amazing how he has one huge game and then all these Rondo threads pop up ... not dissing them, I think it's great, but he's had these skills and abilities since high school. The media seems to have a much larger hold on the masses than I thought ... as soon as they start touting someone's praises, the whole atmosphere around that player improves. But we here at CB have been watching this kid for years ... too bad he didn't get all this recognition sooner.

Just wait until Sheed puts together a good game:

"Danny Ainge, GM of the Year!"
"Sheed - waiting until it counts!"
"Always knew Sheed would step up when it mattered!"

Etc.

This already happened.

[Neurotic Guy]

Sorry if this has been mentioned previously, but the last small point guard to lead his team to championships was Isiah Thomas.  He was clearly the top overall player on that Pistons team, but had a very talented supporting cast in a well put-together team:  Adrian Dantley could score with the best -- especially posting up, Lambeer and Mahorn could bang (and Bill could shoot), and he and Joe Dumars made perhaps the best backcourt in history.  Vinnie 'microwave' was also great off the bench.  Oh, and some kid named Rodman helped too.

It was a great supporting cast -- but with that said, I think Rondo may prove better than Isiah (who was truly great).  Rondo can do things that Isiah couldn't. but Zeke could shoot (very well, not great) and that always gave him the ability to drive and opened the court.  He was brilliant, but with a reliable shot (and it's getting there) Rondo can be better.  But.... he still needs an awesome supporting cast to lead a team to championship.  As will Chris Paul or Deron williams.

[BballTim]

Sorry if this has been mentioned previously, but the last small point guard to lead his team to championships was Isiah Thomas. 

  Billups wasn't exactly 6'9.

But.... he still needs an awesome supporting cast to lead a team to championship.  As will Chris Paul or Deron williams.

  As did KG, PP, and a host of others. Who was the last superstar that *didn't* have a great supporting cast? Hakeem?

  Nobody's saying that Rondo can win a title alone. You need a couple of great players and a good supporting cast. Rondo can be one major piece of a championship puzzle, just like a taller pg, a wing, a pf or a c can be a piece.

[nickagneta]

How good is Rondo?

He's sooooo good he and his greatness has spawned the creation of a new verb in the English language:

Rondo'd(Ron - doed): verb : To be posterized, faked out, made to look bad or beaten on a play created and performed by Rajon Rondo, point guard of the Boston Celtics

Does Chris Paul or Deron Williams or Derrick Rose or Bob Cousy or Isiah Thomas or any other great point guard past or present have a new word in the English language that was created specifically to describe their play? I think not.

Rondo is THAT good!!!!

[BballTim]

  Just for a little perspective, Rondo just missed out on 3rd team All NBA, finishing 3rd in the votes among PGs and 7th in guards in general. Say you put Chris Paul (when healthy) above Rondo. That would still leave him top 4 in PGs, top 8 in all guards, and most likely a top 20 player in the league.

  That's where Rondo rated based on his regular season play, about 14/4/10. Look at his play in the playoffs, probably 18/7/11, and 21/7/12 against one of the best teams in the league. He's kept Mo in check for all but a few short stretches over 5 games, and Miami had trouble just getting into their offense because of his pressure. His play in the postseason has probably been top 10 or so, maybe higher.